PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[WaterfallJumper]

I agree. If he went on IR yesterday we'd all expressing frustration together but since he got shipped out it must have made perfect football sense, right? wrong, the defense lost one of its best players yesterday plain and simple

Whenever a guy gets shipped out of town the smear (sp) campaign begins so that we can try to make ourselves feel better.

Injury --> IR is straightforward. There's no need to reevaluate our narrative about the player. We just try to plug the hole and keep moving forward.

When a player is traded, and the timing and compensation seem less than ideal, it's logical to surmise that we don't see the full picture; thus we may search for an explanation to try to explain the discrepancies. It's an easy step to then arrive at a conclusion that we previously rejected.

It's not necessarily homerism (although it is for some), but rather an attempt to analyze new information. My favorite analogy is that it's akin to trying to solve an equation with multiple variables: we've made our best guesses in the past, but now we just learned that the assumed value of Y or Z is not accurate, so when we solve for X with the new values, the answer changes.

. . . IBWT.

 

[tom444]

I didn't know Collins did not like the area.

He should be thrilled with Cleveland then.

 

[DaBruinz]

He got in a heated argument? So what. I don' care how much he wanted to get paid next year, we are trying to win a Super Bowl this year.

You got NOTHING in return for him. You would have received the same draft pick basically the year after he left for free agency.

The bottom line is Bill Belichick didn't want Collins in New England.. He clearly think the Patriots are a better team this year without him on the roster. Which I find very hard to believe.

I could understand if we got something in return for him but we really didn't. We would have received compensatory picks anyway.

Especially if they offered him 11 million dollars a year they clearly liked Jamie Collins. Thats not Von Miller money but its alot of money. So the Pats thought he had alot of value.. which makes me scratch my head even more.

See, you problem is that you have this flawed idea that the Pats were guaranteed a compensatory pick for Collins. That just isn't the case. Until people like yourself come to understand that the Pats were NOT guaranteed a compensatory pick for Collins, you will never be able to wrap your head around this trade.

The Patriots guaranteed themselves a pick for Collins. Someone who is, essentially, only an 8 game rental for the Browns since it's very unlikely that Collins is going to sign an extension to stay with them.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He should be thrilled with Cleveland then.

Not my first choice and I bet not his either.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

See, you problem is that you have this flawed idea that the Pats were guaranteed a compensatory pick for Collins. That just isn't the case. Until people like yourself come to understand that the Pats were NOT guaranteed a compensatory pick for Collins, you will never be able to wrap your head around this trade.

Right, that is incorrectly what everyone is saying, about the Patriots and also about the Browns now.

I believe if the team (Browns now) signs as many qualifying FA as they lose, they get nothing regardless of the contract sizes (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Not my first choice and I bet not his either.

I think Collins wants to be in the South OR paid insanely. If the Browns give him a 5 year, $75M contract then I bet it would be his first choice.

 

[DaBruinz]

So it's a lesser pick than the Pats would have gotten in 2018 if they kept him and let him leave via free agency! This deal gets worse and worse

There is that assumption on your part again.

Repeat after me. There is no guarantee the Patriots would have gotten a compensatory pick for Collins. Not when they have 16 UFAs going into the 2017 off-season. Not when they have $60M in free cap space.

 

[reflexblue]

I think Collins wants to be in the South OR paid insanely. If the Browns give him a 5 year, $75M contract then I bet it would be his first choice.

Or both, his dream is probably to play for the Saints with the 5 year $75 million dollar contract.

 

[DaBruinz]

So how is a Browns 2018 4th round draft pick higher compensation than a 2018 3rd round comp pick?

You mean the mythical 3rd round comp that probably wasn't going to be awarded?

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Right, that is incorrectly what everyone is saying, about the Patriots and also about the Browns now.

I believe if the team (Browns now) signs as many qualifying FA as they lose, they get nothing regardless of the contract sizes (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

This is from Wikipedia so it may be wrong but :

"Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks"

So basically nothing in that scenario.

 

[PF_SU]

This is from Wikipedia so it may be wrong but :

"Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks"

So basically nothing in that scenario.

OTC has the best explanation:

The Basics and Methodology of Projecting the NFL's Compensatory Draft Picks - Over the Cap

 

[Jimke]

My question is whether this trade is the harbinger of things to come? Are the Patriots willing to
let Bennett, Butler, Shead, Ryan, and Hightower go to free agency to test their market value? Is
their initial offer to these players close to their final offer? Is any player worth the franchise amount
in their opinion? Will they carry over a large amount of 2017 cap money into 2018?

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand what you're saying, the only thing is, who out there, thats going to be a free agent in 17, would possibly be a bigger signing then Collins. Levon bell? Maybe, but no, bill would never.

I just don't see it.

This is what you don't understand. It doesn't have to be a bigger signing. All it has to be is the Pats signing more Eligible free agents than they lose.. Which is a possibility. Especially if they sign 5 or 6 guys at more than 2M a pop but only lose 3,..

 

[RobertWeathers]

My question is whether this trade is the harbinger of things to come?

Maybe

Are the Patriots willing to
let Bennett, Butler, Shead, Ryan, and Hightower go to free agency to test their market value?

You just answered your own question. If all of those guys want Von Miller money then BB will let them establish their value and hope the team can match it (see DMC)

Is their initial offer to these players close to their final offer?

Depends on how far apart they are.

Is any player worth the franchise amountin their opinion? Will they carry over a large amount of 2017 cap money into 2018?

Maybe. Kinda early to tell IMO.

 

[PF_SU]

Are the Patriots willing to
let Bennett, Butler, Shead, Ryan, and Hightower go to free agency to test their market value?

Butler is restricted. They can tender him (and franchise him the following year if no team makes an offer for him).

 

[slash83]

Lombardi saying the Pats never offered Collins 11M.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lombardi saying the Pats never offered Collins 11M.

Mr. Edward M Murrow himself Ben Volin reported it.

 

[PF_SU]

Lombardi saying the Pats never offered Collins 11M.

Loyko is saying (and Giardi confirms) that:

 

[RobertWeathers]

Loyko is saying (and Giardi confirms) that:

How Loyko gets his information is sketchy...

 

[PF_SU]

How Loyko gets his information is sketchy...

Aye, but Giardi basically is saying the same