PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[PatsfanTN]

No one likes this trade.

However if you believe the reports that his play and the entire defense suffered because the team was not going to pay him Von Miller money then it is easily justifiable.

But do any of you actually buy that? That noise feels more like fans piling on to try and defend the trade. We never heard anything bad about Collins before this, ever.

Why is Patricia untouchable, where is his responsibility in any of this? Chandler Jones and Collins? He's the head Defensive Coach and has some culpability in this too. Collins had sooo much versatility.ugh.

 

[Sicilian]

But do any of you actually buy that? That noise feels more like fans piling on to try and defend the trade. We never heard anything bad about Collins before this, ever.

Why is Patricia untouchable, where is his responsibility in any of this? Chandler Jones and Collins? He's the head Defensive Coach and has some culpability in this too. Collins had sooo much versatility.ugh.

To be fair, when do we ever hear anything coming out of Foxboro? It's a pretty tight lipped culture there.

 

[PF_SU]

But do any of you actually buy that? That noise feels more like fans piling on to try and defend the trade. We never heard anything bad about Collins before this, ever.

The point is, Belichick is not perfect. But he's not an idiot either. He wouldn't send Collins away for a low third/fourth round pick for no reason other than the picks. It's fairly clear that for whatever reasons Belichick came to the conclusion that in his current state Jamie Collins is not helping the team. Simple as that.

I don't buy the extent of his scathing criticism (which he's been doing all season long mind you), but Lombardi yesterday openly said that Collins' always been a guy with inconsistent effort level, which is a bit illuminating. So it's not just the fans coming up with weird ideas.

 

[IllegalContact]

Yeah, and watch the next Pats game too, cuz like, it really doesn't matter anyway, like if you watch. In fact, just keeping doing everything in life that doesn't matter, cuz it doesn't matter anyway, if you do it or not.

It's just an excuse to drink beer and eat smoked meats

 

[RobertWeathers]

But do any of you actually buy that? That noise feels more like fans piling on to try and defend the trade. We never heard anything bad about Collins before this, ever.

For me, I am not defending the trade. I am trying to rationalize why it happened.

We know that over the years this team has had several players due for big paydays (Asante, VW, Seymour, Mankins, etc) in the offseason and BB didn't trade them during the season....why Collins?

I don't hear credible people saying he was a cancer. I hear experts like Lombardi and Chatham saying that he was freelancing in a defense than allows very little freelancing.

I hear the team offered him $11m a year and he wanted much more than that.

I do think his play the past 2 years has been uneven.

Looking at all the LB moves these last few months, BB saw the potential for a situation with Collins and potentially Hightower.

BB felt the situation - for whatever reason was untenable and could not be fixed in the short and long term. That is why he was traded.

I hate it, but I understand it

Why is Patricia untouchable, where is his responsibility in any of this? Chandler Jones and Collins? He's the head Defensive Coach and has some culpability in this too. Collins had sooo much versatility.ugh.

None of us know what was actually going on. All we can do is start from what we know and work backwards.

What do you want to do fire Patricia? Why should he go?

What does Chandler Jones have to do with this?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

They literally traded Collins away for nothing! The Pat's will get less for Collins from the Browns than they would have if he left via Free Agency!

This move combined with the Chandler Jones one, have effectively taken all the playmakers out of the Pat's defense. I could see if BB thought MINGO or Roberts were better and he could get more for Collins than the late 3rd round comp pick in 2018, they would have received after he left via free agency. But he traded him to the Browns for a 4th round pick in 2018 (as I explained earlier, there is no way that the Browns get issued a 3rd round comp pick this year).

BB really screwed Collins here too, because not only does he lose out on playoff money, he also loses the exposure of the playoffs, where many a FA to be have made themselves millions.

 

[PatsfanTN]

well, to be fair then, who on this defense HAS performed at a high level or consistently this year? If we had someone ready to step in to those shoes and a message needed to be sent, I get it, but there isn't.

Ahh hell, I'm just *****ing at this point. Hate it, don't like it, but I'll get on board. I always do.

 

[slash83]

They literally traded Collins away for nothing! The Pat's will get less for Collins from the Browns than they would have if he left via Free Agency!

This move combined with the Chandler Jones one, have effectively taken all the playmakers out of the Pat's defense. I could see if BB thought MINGO or Roberts were better and he could get more for Collins than the late 3rd round comp pick in 2018, they would have received after he left via free agency. But he traded him to the Browns for a 4th round pick in 2018 (as I explained earlier, there is no way that the Browns get issued a 3rd round comp pick this year).

BB really screwed Collins here too, because not only does he lose out on playoff money, he also loses the exposure of the playoffs, where many a FA to be have made themselves millions.

Yeah I feel bad for Collins, sucks he is going have to make multi millions playing for the Browns and not for the Patriots.

 

[PF_SU]

I hear experts like Lombardi and Chatham saying that he was freelancing in a defense than allows very little freelancing.

Lombardi not only said he was freelancing. On Simmons' podcast he also said:

"“Yesterday, the second play of the game, he goes, he just kind of does whatever he was gonna do, he kind of played with no enthusiasm, and he seemed like he didn’t really want to play. It seemed like he was playing on the 0-11 Southern Mississippi team that he played in college."

Or

"He’s trading a guy who is very talented, but very moody, very inconsistent with his effort"

 

[Bruins29]

They literally traded Collins away for nothing! The Pat's will get less for Collins from the Browns than they would have if he left via Free Agency!

That is not true.

 

[luuked]

They literally traded Collins away for nothing! The Pat's will get less for Collins from the Browns than they would have if he left via Free Agency!

This move combined with the Chandler Jones one, have effectively taken all the playmakers out of the Pat's defense. I could see if BB thought MINGO or Roberts were better and he could get more for Collins than the late 3rd round comp pick in 2018, they would have received after he left via free agency. But he traded him to the Browns for a 4th round pick in 2018 (as I explained earlier, there is no way that the Browns get issued a 3rd round comp pick this year).

BB really screwed Collins here too, because not only does he lose out on playoff money, he also loses the exposure of the playoffs, where many a FA to be have made themselves millions.

If Mack stays above 80% of his play for the Falcons the Browns will get a 3rd round compensatory pick. Right now he played 100% of the snaps. Of course he could get injured but apart from that go and do the math.

Hightower is more important to this defense than Collins or CJ. Many have been saying this for 2 years now and nothing changed. Add in DMac, Butler and a hot season by Chung and Brown and I don't see any lack of playmakers on our defense.

 

[luuked]

For context.. from the Dallas Cowboys beat / twitter-verse:

 

[PatsfanTN]

None of us know what was actually going on. All we can do is start from what we know and work backwards.

What do you want to do fire Patricia? Why should he go?

What does Chandler Jones have to do with this?[/QUOTE]

No no, don't put words in my mouth. I never said he should be fired or he should go. I mearly was saying that there is A lot of talent on this defense that has been underachieving. Terrible at times. He is the defensive coordinator and yet he, for whatever reason, is untouchable. Just saying he has a lot of culpability in how this defense has perfomed at times too.

 

[slash83]

You were a 94 overall in Madden Jamie!!! You screwed me!!!!

 

[PF_SU]

I mearly was saying that there is A lot of talent on this defense that has been underachieving. Terrible at times.

For the record, Lombardi was trashing the whole Patriots defense:

“And so I think at some point they have to send a message to the rest of the team. Their defense is a liability right now. I mean, they’ve made quarterbacks, whether it’s Tyrod Taylor, whether it’s Ryan Tannehill, whether it’s Landry Jones, they’ve made them look pretty good and I think Bill needed to send a message to the team that this is not going to be tolerated and I think this trade does that.”

“I mean, look, he’s [Collins] not going to play any harder for the Browns. He’s not going to do anything. He just did not play well. I watched the game tape this morning and their defense just sticks on blocks, I mean it’s not very good. They’re not playing with any physicality or emotion. And when they play against a good team, they are going to have trouble. And as good as the offense is playing, you can’t score 30 every week to win.”

“The defense hasn’t played well ever. I mean, it hasn’t played well all season. I mean, the people are like, you know, I go on these shows and talk about it, and it’s only because they’re able to outscore people. I mean, Andy Dalton was playing well against them. I mean, every quarterback, the second half of the Miami game, Tyrod Taylor, the Buffalo Bills moved the ball on them. It was just the end of the half and Brady was just too good. They have to fix the defense. They’re not going to Houston to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl with the way the defense has been playing, I can promise you that.”

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lombardi not only said he was freelancing. On Simmons' podcast he also said:

"“Yesterday, the second play of the game, he goes, he just kind of does whatever he was gonna do, he kind of played with no enthusiasm, and he seemed like he didn’t really want to play. It seemed like he was playing on the 0-11 Southern Mississippi team that he played in college."

Or

"He’s trading a guy who is very talented, but very moody, very inconsistent with his effort"

Yea I saw/heard that.

According to reports, if BB was willing to give him$11m/yr then he was willing to tolerate it.

When you look at all the clues, the 236 linebackers on the team, his uneven play and now the major gap in the contract discussions, BB saw this coming. With that said, he also could have been making those moves to lessen the blow if Hightower also splits.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

That is not true.

Please explain your rationale? If Collins is looking for big time money then he will sign a contract worth around 10+ million a year, which would garner the Pat's a 3rd round comp pick.

How is Cleveland's 4th rounder going to be better than that? And please remember that Collins is still on his rookie deal, he is make @ 1 mil a year, so his salary is cheap. No real cap savings maybe 500,000 at best. I just don't see the rationale for removing him from the team at this point.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm sure this was mentioned somewhere in the previous 1000 posts, but my two part "conclusion" on the reasoning for this trade is this:

1) Less importantly, they plan on being fairly big players in free agency this offseason and didn't think they were going to get a high comp pick for Collins as a result.

2) If he was freelancing, they didn't want to bench him, because they felt he was the type of player who (in a contract year where he's already trying to pad his value) would pout and sulk and cause discord in a locker room where by all accounts he has a lot of friends. I just think BB felt he wanted that dynamic out of the equation.

May not end up being the right move, but that's my justification for it at least.

 

[PatsfanTN]

For the record, Lombardi was trashing the whole Patriots defense:

“And so I think at some point they have to send a message to the rest of the team. Their defense is a liability right now. I mean, they’ve made quarterbacks, whether it’s Tyrod Taylor, whether it’s Ryan Tannehill, whether it’s Landry Jones, they’ve made them look pretty good and I think Bill needed to send a message to the team that this is not going to be tolerated and I think this trade does that.”

“I mean, look, he’s [Collins] not going to play any harder for the Browns. He’s not going to do anything. He just did not play well. I watched the game tape this morning and their defense just sticks on blocks, I mean it’s not very good. They’re not playing with any physicality or emotion. And when they play against a good team, they are going to have trouble. And as good as the offense is playing, you can’t score 30 every week to win.”

“The defense hasn’t played well ever. I mean, it hasn’t played well all season. I mean, the people are like, you know, I go on these shows and talk about it, and it’s only because they’re able to outscore people. I mean, Andy Dalton was playing well against them. I mean, every quarterback, the second half of the Miami game, Tyrod Taylor, the Buffalo Bills moved the ball on them. It was just the end of the half and Brady was just too good. They have to fix the defense. They’re not going to Houston to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl with the way the defense has been playing, I can promise you that.”

That is proabbly the best and most honest assessment of the Patriots Defnense I have seen this year. On any other team, the defensive coaches would be roasted along with the players.

 

[Bruins29]

Please explain your rationale? If Collins is looking for big time money then he will sign a contract worth around 10+ million a year, which would garner the Pat's a 3rd round comp pick.

How is Cleveland's 4th rounder going to be better than that? And please remember that Collins is still on his rookie deal, he is make @ 1 mil a year, so his salary is cheap. No real cap savings maybe 500,000 at best. I just don't see the rationale for removing him from the team at this point.

The rationale seems to be that he was not doing his job. Its pretty simple and it was hurting the team.

As for the pick, it has been explained ad nauseam in other threads. If the Pats go free agent shopping next year it would wipe out the comp pick.