PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[DaBruinz]

I was replying to Sciz & I said....
True, Good point, but when was the last time the Patriots signed a big money free agent.

You replied to my post.... When was
The last time the Patriots had 60m
In free cap space.

PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

Let me know if you need any more help.

You're the one who needs help because you completely miss my point. Since Belichick took over, the team has never had over 33% of the salary cap available to sign "big name free agents". And that's what they're projected to have. Over 33%. It's very hard to sign "big name free agents" if you don't have the cap room to also sign players to fill out your roster. Because the Pats haven't been this flush with cap space previously, they've focused on extending their own players and bringing in low-cost Veterans and no-name Free agents to fill specific roles. With the money they have now, they could very well look at bringing in a"Big Name" BB type player who hits free agency. A luxury that BB has never had..

 

[DaBruinz]

Trading him doesn't "save" money, please.

It gives the Patriots the ability to spread that cash over several other players or it gives them the ability to try and bring in someone in an area of real need

 

[deroc5050]

I don't understand this move at all. Jamie Collins clearly must have really pissed Bill off and clearly had a bad attitude or poor decision making... You basically got nothing in return. We are clearly missing some key facts.

 

[PF_SU]

It gives the Patriots the ability to spread that cash over several other players or it gives them the ability to try and bring in someone in an area of real need

Still, it doesn't "save" money, since they could've also not done the deal and let Collins walk. The effect on the monetary side is the same since trading Collins won't change anything about the cap this year.

 

[patsinthesnow]

One thing I need to say:

We better be going after some outside FAs at this point next offseason. We wil have 70+ million in cap space once Amendola is released/restructured.

Butler/Hightower/Sheard/Bennett will cost maybe half of that against the cap.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's not true, manxman. It is the exact same thing with all of the hypotheticals that we threw out regarding the possibility of trading a player to receive our 1st rounder back.

Of course this time it's a 4th rounder. Either way, Roger Goodell cannot ban this team from making trades. He took away OUR fourth, but doesn't have the power to take away trades. In a worst case scenario, we'd be stuck picking at where our original 4th round spot would've been--and nothing higher. Same as it would've been for a 1st rounder this year.

Actually, at the beginning of this year's draft, Goodell expressly said that the Patriots would have to forfeit the highest 4th round pick they had. Just like they had with their 1st rounder.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

One thing I need to say:

We better be going after some outside FAs at this point next offseason. We wil have 70+ million in cap space once Amendola is released/restructured.

Butler/Hightower/Sheard/Bennett will cost maybe half of that against the cap.

70 million? Where you getting that from? Cuts? The cap going up to 180?

 

[VJCPatriot]

How? Tag and trade.

We tagged and traded Cassel and got a 2nd rounder for him from the Chiefs.

Franchise tag amounts:
NFL franchise, transition tag values set for 2016
Franchise Tag Transition Tag
Defensive end $15.701 million $12.734 million
Defensive tackle $13.615 million $10.875 million
Linebacker $14.129 million $11.925 million
Cornerback $13.952 million $11.913 million

That way you have time to work things out in the offseason and try to change his mind if you want to keep him.

Or if you can't get any suitors and he walks, a 3rd round comp pick in 2018 is not terribly different from a 3rd round pick in 2017 considering you get Collins services for the rest of 2016 and the playoffs.

It's odd that for the first time that I can remember, CB franchise tag values are lower than linebackers. Von Miller's contract must have really screwed up the curve. And he might be the reason we lost Collins. Jamie's agent wanted a Von Miller type contract and we weren't going to give that apparently.

how do you trade a player this coming off season when he's a free agent?

 

[supafly]

If we are only getting a 3rd if Cleveland gets a comp pick, or a 4th if they don't, why not just let him play out his contract and walk at the end of the year? A real head scratcher. If we were getting more for him, I could see it, but we didn't get much and now have lost a good player for the rest of this year. There must be more to it than this, but SIGH...

No guarantee that we'd be getting any comp picks for any player leaving. It would be dependent upon our own free agent acquisitions, as well.

With all of that money in available space next spring, it's certainly possible that a bigger named free agent could be brought in, and/or that the number of players acquired may be greater than the losses.

Likely? Probably not, but it's something to consider.

 

[Jackson 2]

Massarotti: I 'despise' Jamie Collins trade from Patriots to Browns

LOL, what Squeaky despises is BB and the Patriots, not any f###### trade.

 

[Dorito Dink]

Thank God. We were all waiting with bated breath to see if you made up with that complete jagaloon, Tom.

 

[Brit patriot]

Though I am in shock, I am not here to say I understand more about what is going on in negotiations or behind closed doors...anyone who is implying that Bill doesn't know what he is doing is an ungrateful barsteward who doesn't realise how great the last 15 years have been.

 

[patsinthesnow]

70 million? Where you getting that from? Cuts? The cap going up to 180?

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2017 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

~103 million in cap commitments
~163 million projected salary cap right?
~Releasing Amendola saves 6.5 million

 

[supafly]

Actually, at the beginning of this year's draft, Goodell expressly said that the Patriots would have to forfeit the highest 4th round pick they had. Just like they had with their 1st rounder.

Yes, that's what I'm saying, particularly in my last paragraph--"in a worst case scenario." I may have worded it poorly, but the bottom line is that we would not have to forfeit a 4th rounder if CLE doesn't get a 3rd, which is what was suggested.

As you said, it would simply come where we would've originally picked. Since we're discussing comp picks at the end of the round, it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[PF_SU]

70 million? Where you getting that from? Cuts? The cap going up to 180?

The Patriots currently have $102 million tied up next year. If the cap goes to $160 million that would be around $58 million in cap space. Amendola can be cut for cap savings of around $6.5 million.

 

[manxman2601]

That's not true, manxman. It is the exact same thing with all of the hypotheticals that we threw out regarding the possibility of trading a player to receive our 1st rounder back.

Of course this time it's a 4th rounder. Either way, Roger Goodell cannot ban this team from making trades. He took away OUR fourth, but doesn't have the power to take away trades. In a worst case scenario, we'd be stuck picking at where our original 4th round spot would've been--and nothing higher. Same as it would've been for a 1st rounder this year.

I am pretty sure we lose the highest pick in the round we have.

 

[Deus Irae]

How? Tag and trade.

We tagged and traded Cassel and got a 2nd rounder for him from the Chiefs.

Franchise tag amounts:
NFL franchise, transition tag values set for 2016
Franchise Tag Transition Tag
Defensive end $15.701 million $12.734 million
Defensive tackle $13.615 million $10.875 million
Linebacker $14.129 million $11.925 million
Cornerback $13.952 million $11.913 million

That way you have time to work things out in the offseason and try to change his mind if you want to keep him.

Or if you can't get any suitors and he walks, a 3rd round comp pick in 2018 is not terribly different from a 3rd round pick in 2017 considering you get Collins services for the rest of 2016 and the playoffs.

It's odd that for the first time that I can remember, CB franchise tag values are lower than linebackers. Von Miller's contract must have really screwed up the curve. And he might be the reason we lost Collins. Jamie's agent wanted a Von Miller type contract and we weren't going to give that apparently.

If you tag Collins, you leave yourself exposed with regards to Hightower, who's the more important player for this team.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't understand this move at all. Jamie Collins clearly must have really pissed Bill off and clearly had a bad attitude or poor decision making... You basically got nothing in return. We are clearly missing some key facts.

What more do you need to know:
- Free-lancing isn't "doing your job".
- Recently had heated arguments with Defensive Coordinator Matt Patricia
- Supposedly wanted to be paid in the range of Von Miller ($19m). Pats had only offered up $11M/year.
- Supposedly wasn't feeling wanted by the Patriots
- Supposedly told the Patriots he wasn't going to re-sign.

Lombardi claims that the 28 yard run by Gillislee was a direct result of Collins' free-lancing and that Collins' had been free-lancing more this season. Everyone knows that flies in the face of their motto of "Do Your Job"

 

[JMC00]

Or if you can't get any suitors and he walks, a 3rd round comp pick in 2018 is not terribly different from a 3rd round pick in 2017 considering you get Collins services for the rest of 2016 and the playoffs.

ONCE AGAIN. Absolutely zero guarantee Pats would get a comp for him in 2018 depending on what they did in Free Agency in the off-season.

People need to stop with this line. You look like idiots that have no clue.

 

[manxman2601]

is that we would not have to forfeit a 4th rounder if CLE doesn't get a 3rd, which is what was suggested.

You misinterpreted what I said. I said we'd forfeit the Browns pick. I didn't say we would forfeit that and our own. In fact, I'd expressly said otherwise earlier.