PATS HOF NOMINEE

[Dingleberry]

I want Clayborn and Julius Adams in before anyone else. Of course, it won't happen.

Goodness knows that the last 15 years have been football porn for all of us, but I wish the yearly Pats HOF wasn't an automatic *********** for the SB teams.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Clayborn has been waiting far too long.

 

[Doctor DDS]

"How old are you. Adams was dominant in his time on a losing team."

I am 50 years old and remember a good portion of Adams career (1976 on) . Thought he was a very good player but I do not feel he warrants Patriots HOF recognition. And as much as I loved Faulk I did not think he deserved to make it either. Am looking to see players that ideally made multiple Pro Bowls and/or made a huge impact in big games. Unfortunately for Adams the Pats were not in a ton if big games during his career.

Per Andy's point I can agree that McGinest probably deserves it over Rodney.

 

[stinkypete]

Willie is most deserving, and I don't think it's close. He was the defensive cornerstone of a good run of mid-90's teams, and the best pass rusher of the early 00's Super Bowl winners.

Moss spent too many of his prime years in Minnesota for consideration, IMO. Moss is a Viking before he is a Patriot. (Though Haynes and Bouniconti are both in the Patriots HOF despite being identifiable with other franchises).



edit: Willie McGinest is already in Pats Hall of Fame

 

[SPatriotsFC]

Isn't Willie in the Pats HOF already? He was voted in the year before Faulk.



edit: Willie McGinest is already in Pats Hall of Fame

 

[turkeyneck]

Gotta go with the three old-school guys right at the top - Adams, Clayborn, Francis.

 

[Biffins]

Randy Moss is one of the best 3 WRs to ever play. Can't keep him out.

I'd put Stanley Morgan in over both Clayborn and McGinest. Morgan deserves it.

What are you talking about. Randy (1 Pro Bowl, 1 First Team All-Pro) had just one of his 6 pro-bowl years with the Patriots. Randy has a better shot at joining the NFL HoF than the Patriots HoF.

Out of the names listed here, Clayborn (3 Pro Bowls and 3 First Team All-Pros) and Seymour (5 Pro Bowls, 3 First Team All-Pro, 1 Second Team All-Pro) are quite obvious and default choices. Both of these guys had 3 First Team All-Pro years with the Patriots while none of the others had more than one.

And McGinest is already in so removing him from the list.

As my third choice I'd go with Matt Light (3 Pro Bowls, 1 First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowls), entire career with Pats and solid player.

Here's my ranking:

1. Richard Seymour (5 Pro Bowls, 3 First Team All-Pro, 1 Second Team All-Pro, 3x Super Bowls)
2. Raymond Clayborn (3 Pro Bowls, 3 First Team All-Pro, 0 Super Bowls)
3. Matt Light (3 Pro Bowls, 1 First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowls, entire career with Pats)
4. Rodney Harrison (0 ProBowls, 1 First Team All-Pro, 1 Second Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowls)
5. Russ Francis (3x Pro Bowls, 0 First Team All-Pro, 0 Super Bowls with Pats - he got one with 49ers)
6. Fred Marion (1x Pro Bowl, 1x First Team All-Pro, 0 Super Bowls, entire career with Pats)
7. Mike Vrabel (1x Pro Bowl, 1x First Team All-Pro, 3x Super Bowls)
8. Julius Adams (1x Pro Bowl, 0 First Team All-Pro, 0 Super Bowls, entire career with Pats)
9. Randy Moss (1x Pro Bowl, 1x First Team All-Pro, 0 Super Bowls - just 1 good year on a brief 3 year stint here).

 

[AzorianPats]

Mcginest is already in..

 

[Biffins]

How old are you. Adams was dominant in his time on a losing team.

How dominant can he be if he had just 1 Pro Bowl and 0 First Team All-Pros and 0 Second Team All Pro nods?

 

[Biffins]

I'm surprised at the disrespect being shown to Matt Light (3 Pro Bowls, 1 First Team All-Pro, 3 Super Bowls, entire career with Pats protecting Brady's blind side) on this thread and in the poll.

 

[Biffins]

What about Logan Mankins? Is it too early for consideration?

Logan Mankins - 6 Pro Bowls (more than anyone else on this list above), 1 First Team All-Pro, 5x Second Team All-Pro. Consensus dominant player at his position. Along with Brady, Seymour, and Gronkowski, you think of Mankins as the consensus best player at his position in the NFL during the Brady-Belichick era.

 

[Biffins]

And what about Vince Wilfork? (5x Pro Bowls, 1x First Team All-Pro, 3x Second Team All-Pro)

Too early?

 

[Biffins]

And Wes Welker? (5x Pro Bowls, 2x First Team All-Pro, 2x Second Team All-Pro) 3x NFL Receptions Leader.

 

[Biffins]

What about Larry Izzo? (2x Pro Bowls, 2x First Team All-Pro, 3x Super Bowls, or is Special Teams not sexy enough?) I am assuming Matt Slater (6x Pro Bowls, 4x First Team All-Pro, 2 Super Bowls and counting, and Team Leader) will definitely default in when he retires though.

 

[patfanken]

I post first to declare my extremely strong belief that Bill Parcells belongs NO where near the Patriot HOF. The very fact that he's continually nominated by his mediot buddies only shows how UNDESERVING he is. He is barely a .50o coach with the Pats and was working hard to get his next job while he was still supposed to be working on this one. It was an ultimate backstab job, and some people want to reward that. IIRC Pete Carroll had a better winning percentage. As a Pats coach, Parcells wasn't even in Chuck Fairbainks' league.

The ONLY reason he keeps getting nominated is because he gave the mediots HOF pressers. So when a HOF of who gives the mediots great pressers is established I'll be first to stand on the table and call for Parcells' admission. But until then, he should continue to take no part in our HOF. It's bad enough he rode his good press into the one in Ohio.

On the OP: Something needs to be done to get guys like Adams, Francis, Clayborn, Morgan, etc into the HOF. As the first wave of HOF candidates from the first run continue to continue to roll on through, guys from the 7 0's and 80's are gong to be locked out by fans who weren't born when they played.

If we have any sense of history at all we would be putting 2-3 of these guys a year in the HALL while they can still enjoy it. Christ, Stanley Morgan AVERAGED 20yds/catch for a freakin CAREER!!!!!!!!!



edit: Stanley Morgan is already in Pats Hall of Fame

 

[Biffins]

I post first to declare my extremely strong belief that Bill Parcells belongs NO where near the Patriot HOF. The very fact that he's continually nominated by his mediot buddies only shows how UNDESERVING he is. He is barely a .50o coach with the Pats and was working hard to get his next job while he was still supposed to be working on this one. It was an ultimate backstab job, and some people want to reward that. IIRC Pete Carroll had a better winning percentage. As a Pats coach, Parcells wasn't even in Chuck Fairbainks' league.

The ONLY reason he keeps getting nominated is because he gave the mediots HOF pressers. So when a HOF of who gives the mediots great pressers is established I'll be first to stand on the table and call for Parcells' admission. But until then, he should continue to take no part in our HOF. It's bad enough he rode his good press into the one in Ohio.

On the OP: Something needs to be done to get guys like Adams, Francis, Clayborn, Morgan, etc into the HOF. As the first wave of HOF candidates continue to continue to roll on through, guys from the 70's and 80's are gong to be locked out by fans who weren't born when they played.

If we have any sense of history at all we would be putting 2-3 of these guys a year in the HALL while they can still enjoy it. Christ Stanely Morgan AVERAGED 20/catch for a freakin CAREER!!!!!!!!!

Chill out already. Morgan is already in. Relax!

Patriots Hall of Fame

 

[jmt57]

Regarding Wilfork, Mankins and Welker:

Vince Wilfork just retired, so he will be eligible in 2020.

Logan Mankins will be eligible in 2019.

Wes Welker will be eligible in 2019.



Regarding Randy Moss, here are his numbers with New England:

Regular Season:
52 Games (side note: 16 without Tom Brady, and 16 more when TB12 was arguably not fully recovered).
259 receptions
3904 receiving yards
15.1 yards per reception
75.1 yards per game
50 touchdown receptions
1x All Pro, 1x Pro Bowl

Playoffs:
4 playoff games (2-2)
12 receptions
142 receiving yards
11.8 yards per reception
35.5 yards per game
one touchdown

Single season franchise rankings in top 10:
- 2nd and 7th most receiving yards (1493 in '07, 1264 in '09)
- 3rd most receiving yards per game (93.3 in '07)
- 8th most receptions (98 in 2007)
- 1st, 3rd & T-6th most TD receptions (23 in '07, 13 in '09, 11 in '08)
- 1st & 6th most points for non-kicker (138 in '07, 80 in '09)

Career franchise rankings:
- tied for 3rd in TD receptions (50)
- 12th in receiving yards (3904)
- 14th in receptions (259)
- 6th in yards per catch (15.1) [min 200 to qualify]
- 2nd in receiving yards per game (75.1)
- tied for 3rd in points scored for non-kicker (302)


(Note: this is neither an endorsement nor opposition on Moss for NE HoF, rather just some perspective).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

As a Pats coach, Parcells wasn't even in Chuck Fairbainks' league.

I agree. I felt just as you the entire time he was here; I found him annoying. Carroll's personality did not fit in at all in this neighborhood, but Belichick was such a breath of fresh air, I have to credit Kraft for it.

It took me many years to understand and appreciate exactly what Parcells brought to the table, and I've found him more likeable every day since. He was compelled to bail to get away from the owner similarly to Chuck, but, as I've said before, if he didn't that night after we lost in the Superdome, that conversation on the flight home between Belichick & Kraft might not have happened.

So, Robert has more checks in the good decision department.

But the bad ones have been miserably terrible. It's been TEN years, and do you think he comprehends how he not only failed to handle, but fanned the flames of the '07 fiasco, and insodoing, opened the door for the ball inflation nonsense later?

I must point out that, were I coaching a game I had to win, I would start Parilli, Plunkett, Grogan, Flutie (and Brady) over Bledsoe every time.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Regarding Wilfork, Mankins and Welker:

Vince Wilfork just retired, so he will be eligible in 2020.

Logan Mankins will be eligible in 2019.

Wes Welker will be eligible in 2019.



Regarding Randy Moss, here are his numbers with New England:

Regular Season:
52 Games (side note: 16 without Tom Brady, and 16 more when TB12 was arguably not fully recovered).
259 receptions
3904 receiving yards
15.1 yards per reception
75.1 yards per game
50 touchdown receptions
1x All Pro, 1x Pro Bowl

Playoffs:
4 playoff games (2-2)
12 receptions
142 receiving yards
11.8 yards per reception
35.5 yards per game
one touchdown

Single season franchise rankings in top 10:
- 2nd and 7th most receiving yards (1493 in '07, 1264 in '09)
- 3rd most receiving yards per game (93.3 in '07)
- 8th most receptions (98 in 2007)
- 1st, 3rd & T-6th most TD receptions (23 in '07, 13 in '09, 11 in '08)
- 1st & 6th most points for non-kicker (138 in '07, 80 in '09)

Career franchise rankings:
- tied for 3rd in TD receptions (50)
- 12th in receiving yards (3904)
- 14th in receptions (259)
- 6th in yards per catch (15.1) [min 200 to qualify]
- 2nd in receiving yards per game (75.1)
- tied for 3rd in points scored for non-kicker (302)

I saw Randy bust his ass when he was here, and I think he treasures his experience here in a more special way than his other stops. But he was here relatively briefly, and he imploded in the end. I didn't see a lack of effort.

 

[Biffins]

Regarding Wilfork, Mankins and Welker:

Vince Wilfork just retired, so he will be eligible in 2020.

Logan Mankins will be eligible in 2019.

Wes Welker will be eligible in 2019.



Regarding Randy Moss, here are his numbers with New England:

Regular Season:
52 Games (side note: 16 without Tom Brady, and 16 more when TB12 was arguably not fully recovered).
259 receptions
3904 receiving yards
15.1 yards per reception
75.1 yards per game
50 touchdown receptions
1x All Pro, 1x Pro Bowl

Playoffs:
4 playoff games (2-2)
12 receptions
142 receiving yards
11.8 yards per reception
35.5 yards per game
one touchdown

Single season franchise rankings in top 10:
- 2nd and 7th most receiving yards (1493 in '07, 1264 in '09)
- 3rd most receiving yards per game (93.3 in '07)
- 8th most receptions (98 in 2007)
- 1st, 3rd & T-6th most TD receptions (23 in '07, 13 in '09, 11 in '08)
- 1st & 6th most points for non-kicker (138 in '07, 80 in '09)

Career franchise rankings:
- tied for 3rd in TD receptions (50)
- 12th in receiving yards (3904)
- 14th in receptions (259)
- 6th in yards per catch (15.1) [min 200 to qualify]
- 2nd in receiving yards per game (75.1)
- tied for 3rd in points scored for non-kicker (302)

Well, since the main argument for not including Moss is that one good season is not enough for induction, I am going to ignore your Single season franchise rankings.

As for career rankings, lets ignore Yards per game, and Yards per catch, since these are also inflated by a short tenure and short strong career. So what are we left with:

Career franchise rankings:
- tied for 3rd in TD receptions (50)
- 12th in receiving yards (3904)
- 14th in receptions (259)
- tied for 3rd in points scored for non-kicker (302)

........ meh.