Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[Deus Irae]

Breer's a hater.

Whether Breer's a hater, a homer, or God on high is irrelevant to whether or not he's correct in his point.


He is.

 

[Finnishfan]

Whether Breer's a hater, a homer, or God on high is irrelevant to whether or not he's correct in his point.


He is.

I disagree. He is wrong on both points.

How is a young player, who is at his prime and constantly improving (as a player and as a person) a dice-roll? Only "dice-roll" about him is the question whether we can keep him or not during the offseason. If we can't, then a 4th round pick is a heavy price for only 7 regular season games (+ 1 offseason) services.

That is unless he helps us to win a superbowl.

Even if Talib turns out to be worse than his reputation (as can happen to ANY players who are beneficiarys of a good supporting cast around them), then he STILL IMPROVES OUR SECONDARY no matter what.

So apart from the re-signing issue, this is not more of a dice-roll than any trade in this league. Real dice-roll is like one of those offseason deals that tie up millions of our salary cap on "has been" or "suspect" players like Fanene, Haynesworth and Ocho.

About the other point, a bailout by the Bucs is close to the truth, but not quite that.

They KNEW they were not going to keep him after this year. Now if you know you are gonna part ways with a player, then why not try and get some value in return. Bucs are chasing the playoffs right now, but a 4th rounder for a guy who will not be with your franchise anyways in 6 months is just too good of a price.

Its more of a value move on Schianos part than a bailout. He sees the 4th rounder as more valuable than Talibs remaining services with the Bucs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Andre Carter was signed after the season commenced. I sincerely doubt that Andre Carter qualifies for the compensatory pick evaluation.

Andre Carter - Oakland Raiders - 2012 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Correct—players signed (roughly) after the start of TC do not count against the team signing them (or for the team losing them).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They KNEW they were not going to keep him after this year. Now if you know you are gonna part ways with a player, then why not try and get some value in return. Bucs are chasing the playoffs right now, but a 4th rounder for a guy who will not be with your franchise anyways in 6 months is just too good of a price.

Its more of a value move on Schianos part than a bailout. He sees the 4th rounder as more valuable than Talibs remaining services with the Bucs.

As a minor point, the best comp pick the Bucs could have gotten would be #97(ish) in 2014, which equals a late 4 in 2013. . . which appears to be what they'll be getting.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Is anyone else concerned that the Patriots brought in an all-around bad guy? Ochocinco, Moss, Haynesworth, Dillon- the issues with these guys were mild compared to Talib. Talib is nearing Pacman Jones territory here.

Just in terms of "winning at all costs", I hope that the franchise does not begin to dig up the scum of the earth because they are desperate. Frankly, when the Jets beat us in 2010, I felt the sting was much less because we had a great group of guys while they were infested with real-life dirt bags like Cromartie, Holmes, and Edwards. I think there is a difference between locker room cancers and guys that show up in the headlines for violence and overall danger to society.

I'm planning to make my 1.5 year old daughter a big Patriots fan, and whether they win or lose, you can always be proud to be a fan of Mr. Kraft's franchise. I really don't want to be explaining to her why one of her favorite players assaulted his wife, got a DUI, fired a gun at someone, or punched a cab driver in the head.

I realize that our perception of a lot of these player is skewed, and in reality most of them are not saints, but I think the Talib signing is out of character. This isn't like Alfonzo Dennard where a kid makes a mistake... this is a 26-year old violent criminal who has been given everything he needs to succeed but is a rotten person. I feel like we just made a deal with the devil.

Who is with me???

One upside to the Patriots is the largely professional attitude of the team. While there isn't the same amount of the 'guys in charge' from several years ago, there still is Vince and Tom and others whose gravitas probably help steer the locker room in that highly professional direction. Further, the ultimate chief (BB) is a guy whose reputation needs no introduction to Talib or anyone else who takes the field on autumn Sundays.

With that said, I see your point and do not necessarily disagree. One thing about the Patriots (homer alert!), they are an easy team to root for.....because league troublemakers/loudmouths are rarely found on the Patriots. Another positive thing about the Patriots, sometimes the bad apples (actual and supposed) come here and right their reputations to some degree. It's pretty cool that some guys like Dillon and Moss(until the end) and even Ocho can come here and conduct themselves contrary to their reputations/past. With Talib? Here is a guy who has had quite a bit of trouble (but at Pacman level???) and it is fair to say he had (or has) some issues with how he conducts himself. But how nice would it be for the guy to come here, perform solidly on the field as well as conduct himself off field much better than previously? That says something very good about BB and the Patriots if/when that happens.

I don't think the Patriots do themselves a disservice signing players that have negative reputations..... when the environment appears to frequently bring out improved behavior off the field (lol, not perfect...just improved to an acceptable standard). Where I would have issue with the Patriots is if a loudmouth who causes trouble on the field, conducts himself poorly off the field, and the Patriots continued to overlook it for the benefit of more interceptions per season. Fortunately the house of BB isn't one that tolerates that kind of thing much (at least that I have seen).

 

[goheels22002]

I did the Tiger Woods fist pump when I heard this.

The one he did before he had to stop seeing porn stars on the side, or the one after?

 

[1960Pats]

Seriously though, does anyone have any thoughts on Arrington?

Bill keeping him over Moore, when they're roughly statistically the same and his insistence on playing him suggests it's not just an issue of regression.

Thoughts?

I guess Arrington has shown Belichamp that he can play at a better level than Moore or Belichamp thinks that Moore has a better shot at staying unemployed if they need him down the line.

 

[1960Pats]

the only problem is that we acquired a player for 7+Postseason games....
if we have extension we locked a great thing

Or, if the guy turns out to be the bad apple he appears to be they can throw him back into the rotten barrel.

 

[1960Pats]

I think that we need to understand that Myra Kraft is gone. One starting corner is able to play because his 2nd drug suspension had ended and the other because a court this week decided to allow him to delay his assault trial until after the season.

Personally, I don't think that these players would have been acceptable a couple of years ago. Times have changed. That being said, we do have a great organization, and both these players are on very short leashes; no further issues will be tolerated.

It is instructive that in Tampa Bay the reaction is to celebrate and wonder why it has taken so long to get rid of Talib. Obviously, all 32 teams passed on Dennard for 6 full rounds and some on the seventh, pretty impressive for a 1st round talent. Make of this what you will. For me it is clear that our standards with regard to character issues have changed dramatically.

Three words said it all. Times have changed.

The social standards that were set for me as a child, and those that my wife and I tried to set for ourselves and our children, have been in a battle for decades. The football stadium is just another place where that battle takes place. If we can accept poor character in the NFL, then why expect it to be different anywhere else?

 

[PatsWSB47]

Three words said it all. Times have changed.

The social standards that were set for me as a child, and those that my wife and I tried to set for ourselves and our children, have been in a battle for decades. The football stadium is just another place where that battle takes place. If we can accept poor character in the NFL, then why expect it to be different anywhere else?

If one of your kids went down the wrong road repeatedly but seemed to be turning around, would you reject them? Talib isn't Belichick's kid but you know what I mean. I also know Bill isn't trying to be the humanitarian of the year and is more interested if he helps us win than he is his soul. He will have gone through his suspension and his past transgressions are behind him. He's on a very short leash I'm sure and will be out if he messes up here. This is best and probably his last chance to shape up.

 

[mgteich]

1) Arrington has always been higher than Moore on the depth chart. He is our #9 defensive back. This is a long way down from being our starting corner, but he is still higher than Moore.

2) The question is why Williams wasn't cut. One presumes that Moore is injured.

I guess Arrington has shown Belichamp that he can play at a better level than Moore or Belichamp thinks that Moore has a better shot at staying unemployed if they need him down the line.

 

[Jimke]

1) Arrington has always been higher than Moore on the depth chart. He is our #9 defensive back. This is a long way down from being our starting corner, but he is still higher than Moore.

2) The question is why Williams wasn't cut. One presumes that Moore is injured.

Everything revolves around special teams. Both Martin and Williams are
inferior to Moore as positional players but they play special teams.

 

[rdf63]

Slick move. Talib may be troubled but no doubt about his talent. Pats get Talib and all they have to do is trade a 4th for a 7th. Instead of another db draft bust Talib will be a free agent at the end of this year that will let the Pats evaluate his play first-hand and if he doesn't work out, let me walk.

If he does work out the 26 year old Talib could be a starter and absolute STEAL. I have a feeling that Talib can be a starter for several years and the Pats are the perfect fit. He is a very aggressive in your face type of db which is what the Pats lack.

 

[Ring 6]

Three words said it all. Times have changed.

The social standards that were set for me as a child, and those that my wife and I tried to set for ourselves and our children, have been in a battle for decades. The football stadium is just another place where that battle takes place. If we can accept poor character in the NFL, then why expect it to be different anywhere else?

Definitely understand your viewpoint, but there is another side.
I am amazed at my childrens generation (teenagers) and there tolerance and accpetance of everyone. In my generation kids who were 'different' were picked on and essentially made outcasts. In my kids generation, the kids who do the picking on are the outcasts, and the 'different' kids are defended and supported. That is a better world, in my view.
Extending that dynamic to this topic, Talib has suffered the consequences of his actions, served his time, so to speak.
Is it sending a better message to children to say that although this person made a mistake and atoned for it, we are too good for him and should shun him? When you add that the league has no issue with him and other teams would employ him, are we really correct in sending the message that our version of morality is that we are better than him, and he should be kicked to the curb.
I'm sure the perfect answer lies somewhere in between, but I am thoroughly impressed by my childen's generation's attitude that everyone has value regardless of whether you happen to approve of them or not.

 

[JackBauer]

McCourty will only be at safety when we have no safeties healthy.

Needless to say I disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

1) Arrington has always been higher than Moore on the depth chart. He is our #9 defensive back. This is a long way down from being our starting corner, but he is still higher than Moore.

What are you basing this on? He has played a lot more than the 9th most.
I guess your argument is that McCourty, Talib, Dennard, Chung, Wilson, Gregory are ahead of him, and that may or may not be even though Arrington has started every game, but isn't worth aguing.
However, you seem to have now placed 2 of Cole, Ebner or Williams ahead of Arrignton, who has started every game this year.
I'm not sure how you conclude that Cole who played basically for the first time all year after Arrington was injured is ahead of a starter, or that either Ebner of Williams who have been kept off the field at all cost could be either

2) The question is why Williams wasn't cut. One presumes that Moore is injured.

BB has consistently kept guys who can add SOMETHING (ie special teams) over guys who go out on the field in a larger role, but prove they are not good at it.

 

[Ring 6]

Needless to say I disagree.

Thats fine, I'm just not sure what you are using to back it up. There really aren't any facts that say so.

 

[Ring 6]

As a minor point, the best comp pick the Bucs could have gotten would be #97(ish) in 2014, which equals a late 4 in 2013. . . which appears to be what they'll be getting.

I have never understood this logic.
How does a 3rd equal a 4th? Ultimatley you get the same amount of career (all of it) out of each player. The 3rd is likely to be a better player.
The logic that if you want my pick today for a pick next year you have to give me a round earlier next year to compensate for me not having a player this year applies to draft day trades, not to the value of the picks in the long run.

 

[JR4]

Is anyone else concerned that the Patriots brought in an all-around bad guy? Ochocinco, Moss, Haynesworth, Dillon- the issues with these guys were mild compared to Talib. Talib is nearing Pacman Jones territory here.

Just in terms of "winning at all costs", I hope that the franchise does not begin to dig up the scum of the earth because they are desperate. Frankly, when the Jets beat us in 2010, I felt the sting was much less because we had a great group of guys while they were infested with real-life dirt bags like Cromartie, Holmes, and Edwards. I think there is a difference between locker room cancers and guys that show up in the headlines for violence and overall danger to society.

I'm planning to make my 1.5 year old daughter a big Patriots fan, and whether they win or lose, you can always be proud to be a fan of Mr. Kraft's franchise. I really don't want to be explaining to her why one of her favorite players assaulted his wife, got a DUI, fired a gun at someone, or punched a cab driver in the head.

I realize that our perception of a lot of these player is skewed, and in reality most of them are not saints, but I think the Talib signing is out of character. This isn't like Alfonzo Dennard where a kid makes a mistake... this is a 26-year old violent criminal who has been given everything he needs to succeed but is a rotten person. I feel like we just made a deal with the devil.

Who is with me???

a violent criminal?????

Talib has a temper that has got him into trouble at times.
An accident in one reported incident.

As his former High school coach says:

The good side of Aqib is definitely there,” Ledford said. “Some of the other sides that people are seeing, I don’t know what you’re talking about, and I don’t know what they’re talking about. He’s been very good to us and good to our kids here, good to our community and good for our community.

. . . . .

“I think deep down, Aqib is a good person,” Ledford said. “He may put himself in situations where bad things can happen from time to time, but deep down, he’s a good person. He loves people. He loves kids. Getting around the type of people that he’ll be around in New England will be a positive for him.”

Aqib Talib gets high marks from his former coach - BostonHerald.com

get that part "He loves people. He loves kids."

doesn't sound like a "violent criminal"

If you want to bring up your daughter right make sure she learns to check
assertions and question everything, especially media assertions
because they are paid to sensationalize everything they write.

 

[Ring 6]

from that website already posted..he has been getting worse since his rookie year..still young however and better than anyone we have

Profootballfocus is less than useless.