Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft picks

[Rob0729]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

BTW, here is Scout Inc's take on Burgess:

Comment: Burgess made only 10 starts last season. He is an accomplished pass rusher who has explosive burst off the ball and a good feel for bringing pressure off the edge. As an undersized DE, he can get under OL's pads quickly and show good use of hands and body lean. He knows how to set up his moves as an edge rusher and he has a good understanding of pass-rush sequence. Burgess is quick and athletic. He has above average strength when attempting power moves and he understands how to play with leverage. As a run defender, Burgess has good quickness in space and closes with good burst. He can chase down ball carriers from the backside and he uses his hands well to separate from blockers versus the run. Burgess has adequate strength to hold his ground against the run, but his lack of size can be an issue. He will give ground against strong offensive tackles. .

Derrick Burgess Scouting - Oakland Raiders - ESPN

Note: that they scouted him as a DE and some of the size and strength issues they mentioned are not as big of a concerns at OLB in a 3-4. Also, this tells me that people who think he will be only a situational pass rusher may be surprised because he looks like he is pretty good vs. the run too.

Scout Inc.'s grade for him was 72 which makes him a good starter.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Yes, this one. Most people felt that if the Pats stayed put, they'd be fine with Woods at OLB. However, even in his limited time, he showed very little pass rushing ability. In fact, I could never tell when he was on the field.



You forgot Woods. They obviously did this to upgrade over Woods.

most people did not feel that........I know I didn't........maybe we were looking at different pierre woods' last year, but the one I was looking at was ineffective

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Woods looks like a Strat-o-matic "0" to me.

 

[Urgent]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

This may not have been the news Rob Ninkovich was waiting to hear...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Sorry, you left out the context. You PURPOSELY made it sound like it was Burgess fault that his sack totals have declined. Instead of looking at the REALITY in that the Raiders team dynamics changed and that change certainly played a HUGE role in his production changing, you just say "Hey Everyone, don't get too excited.. Look at this trend of his sacks going down. "

Unlike YOU, I put his stats into perspective. Acknowledging them, but also pointing out the major factors that attributed to them. OH, btw, did you notice I didn't mention about his injuries? No. Didn't think so.

Even if Burgess only puts up 5-7 sacks, I will be ecstatic. Why? Because that seems about the norm for OLBs on this team under Belichick.

The key to the Pats pass rush in 2003 and 2004 was being able to rush from all 4 linebacker positions, making it very hard for the opposing team to pick up the 4 or 5th rusher. With Burgess, Thomas, Guyton, and Mayo on the field, the Pats will be able to do just that. Rush from any of those positions. And it will help them succeed. Like it did back in 2003 and 2004.

I didn't leave out the context, as you well know. The context was the entire discussion.

Also, you didn't put his stats into perspective. You apologized for them. For "perspective", you'd have noted things like "He's not only declined over those 4 seasons, he's been doing it from the 4-3 instead of the 3-4, so it might not even translate", or "Yes, he had a steady increase from 2001 until 2006, but he peaked there and his numbers have been in decline since."

See, THAT'S context. Talking about the guy next to him as an excuse is apologizing for the man.

Finally, as for the injuries, of course you didn't point them out. That would have been another negative to put 'in context'.

 

[ropese]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Per Reiss, according to league source:

The Patriots trade a 2010 third-round draft choice and a 2010 fourth-round draft choice to Oakland.

The trade has a condition that if the Patriots pick up a 2010 fifth-round draft choice (their pick was traded to Tampa Bay for Alex Smith), that pick will go to Oakland instead of the 2010 fourth-round draft choice.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Recognize that the 'Top 51' thing is purely artificial. Yes, it's all that is counted during the off-season. But during football season, all 53, plus the practice squad, count. Plus, you need some cap money available to sign players when members of the roster are injured and placed on injured reserve.

That's exactly what happened to Milloy - there was enough space during the artificial Rule of 51 period, but not enough room for the regular season, and Milloy was released to enable the Patriots to fit under the real salary cap.

Order of magnitude, you need about $2mm for IR replacements and PS.

So that $1.5mm roster bonus becomes relatively interesting.

Urgent, I understand better than most (but pale in comparison to Miguel) about the cap implications. What you seem to be missing is that there are players under the top 51 who ared going to be on this team. And that means that someone in the top 51 won't be. And it will free up money.

The reason for the Milloy issue was that the Patriots put 9 players on the IR coming out of camp and were 2 million over the cap because of it. They only had 2 players whose contracts they could have adjusted to get them under the cap. Milloy and Law. Milloy was coming off his worst year as a professional. Law had already said he wouldn't renegotiate. Milloy was willing to, but only so much. And that is what led him to be cut.

As someone pointed out, it would seem that the 1.5 million was already paid. So the total change in the cap due to Al Johnson being cut is something like 1.1 million. Which would put the Pats at about 3.5 million or so, not including the rookie signing bonuses that Miguel hasn't accounted for yet.

Now, because of the way things are, there isn't a lot of room to restructure players.. Brady is probably the only one who they could easily restructure to free up money. I wouldn't be surprised to hear a contract extension in the 5 year range be announced for Brady to help. But it will only help so much because Brady already has 6.6 million in signing bonus Amortization this year.

Anyways, it should be a good acquisition. It will be interesting to see what kind of fire he plays with and how well he acclimates to the 3-4 system that BB runs.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I didn't leave out the context, as you well know. The context was the entire discussion.

Also, you didn't put his stats into perspective. You apologized for them. For "perspective", you'd have noted things like "He's not only declined over those 4 seasons, he's been doing it from the 4-3 instead of the 3-4, so it might not even translate", or "Yes, he had a steady increase from 2001 until 2006, but he peaked there and his numbers have been in decline since."

See, THAT'S context. Talking about the guy next to him as an excuse is apologizing for the man.

Finally, as for the injuries, of course you didn't point them out. That would have been another negative to put 'in context'.

I didn't apologize for anything regarding Burgess' stats. But you'd rather post your spewing than admit you're wrong.

And sorry, but I did put things into perspective. Just because you're on this "holier than thou" kick and seem to think you know more than everyone else doesn't mean jack.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I didn't apologize for anything regarding Burgess' stats. But you'd rather post your spewing than admit you're wrong.

And sorry, but I did put things into perspective. Just because you're on this "holier than thou" kick and seem to think you know more than everyone else doesn't mean jack.

Ahhh..... the irony thickens.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Per Reiss, according to league source:

The Patriots trade a 2010 third-round draft choice and a 2010 fourth-round draft choice to Oakland.

The trade has a condition that if the Patriots pick up a 2010 fifth-round draft choice (their pick was traded to Tampa Bay for Alex Smith), that pick will go to Oakland instead of the 2010 fourth-round draft choice.

Already noted twice since the Herald had it first. Most of those in this thread are too busy arguing about other things to notice, though...

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Yes, this one. Most people felt that if the Pats stayed put, they'd be fine with Woods at OLB.

Just because most of your posts were spent arguing with people who felt that way doesn't mean most people felt that way. Look around, there has been an overwhelming focus on pass rushers here since the day the season ended. OVERWHELMING. Look at this thread: one post after another saying "At last, the missing piece we've all been waiting for!!!"

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Just because most of your posts were spent arguing with people who felt that way doesn't mean most people felt that way. Look around, there has been an overwhelming focus on pass rushers here since the day the season ended. OVERWHELMING. Look at this thread: one post after another saying "At last, the missing piece we've all been waiting for!!!"

It's funny how this board works.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Yes, this one. Most people felt that if the Pats stayed put, they'd be fine with Woods at OLB. However, even in his limited time, he showed very little pass rushing ability. In fact, I could never tell when he was on the field.

So, you admittedly don't pay attention to the games when they are going on. Nor do you bother to account for the fact that the Pats limited both Woods and Mayo last year in their duties to help them. Woods came on in sub packages and was playing on the strong side. He wasn't asked to pass rush much, just like Mayo wasn't asked to pass rush much. Woods was asked to set the edge and to cover the TE or RB out of the back field. Woods only started because Thomas went down to injury. Then Woods started on the strong side opposite Vrabel. Woods only played in a couple of games as the starter before going down with a broken jaw.

You forgot Woods. They obviously did this to upgrade over Woods.

You are assuming that Burgess is an upgrade over Woods. However, if Burgess does, in fact, have issues against the run, then Woods will see more playing time on running downs and Burgess on passing downs. Don't go patting yourself on the back when you aren't sure of the whole story.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I didn't leave out the context, as you well know. The context was the entire discussion.

Also, you didn't put his stats into perspective. You apologized for them. For "perspective", you'd have noted things like "He's not only declined over those 4 seasons, he's been doing it from the 4-3 instead of the 3-4, so it might not even translate", or "Yes, he had a steady increase from 2001 until 2006, but he peaked there and his numbers have been in decline since."

See, THAT'S context. Talking about the guy next to him as an excuse is apologizing for the man.

Finally, as for the injuries, of course you didn't point them out. That would have been another negative to put 'in context'.

17
13
8
3

randy moss.......think about it

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

17
13
8
3

randy moss.......think about it

Understood, and I was all for Moss coming in, which should help people to understand that I wasn't saying "move sucks!" just because of one stat line. However, pointing out a potential problem isn't something that should be avoided, in my opinion. One thing that's happening on this site is that any questioning is immediately considered outright bashing. Hell, I acknowledged the different perspectives of BB and myself and I'm still getting some nonsense about context.

The reality is that there are plenty of cautionary flags that come with Burgess, and they do impact his trade value. Belichick was willing to pay far more for Burgess than I would have. Stuff happens. I haven't, until now, even noted that the deal potentially gives the Raiders even more than that first report of 3rd and 5th. Anyone who doesn't think this was a desperation trade is welcome to believe that, and it's possible that they may be correct, although I think 'anxiety' certainly played a major part in this move.

Others will note that the two teams involved both had LB issues and will note the high price paid for a player that was holding out and slated to be a backup on one of the worst teams in the NFL. The Eagles have lost a starter for the season already and the Patriots have been trying to bring in OLBs all offseason. Those two teams battled it out for a player who's sack numbers read like a mountain peak. I happen to think there's much more behind that than both teams liking the color of Burgess' last sportsjacket.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Belichick was willing to pay far more for Burgess than I would have. Stuff happens. I haven't, until now, even noted that the deal potentially gives the Raiders even more than that first report of 3rd and 5th.

Next time you win a SB, then we'll actually give a **** about your opinion as it relates to what BB does.

Bottom line, a pass rushing OLB is about the only weakness we had going in. This {somewhat} addresses that. Thats good enough for me. Jesus we are fat with day 1 picks next year. WTF, how many aces do you think are in the deck? I'm more then willing to take a 3rd round flyer on Burgess next year.

...... oh yeah, and a number 5 in 2011............. (cuz lets face it, I might be dead then and it won't matter one GD whiff at that point).

Burgess makes us better in the only real weak spot we got next year....... for that, i'll take my chances in 2010-12 on a couple mid rounders.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Next time you win a SB, then we'll actually give a **** about your opinion as it relates to what BB does.

Bottom line, a pass rushing OLB is about the only weakness we had going in. This {somewhat} addresses that. Thats good enough for me. Jesus we are fat with day 1 picks next year. WTF, how many aces do you think are in the deck? I'm more then willing to take a 3rd round flyer on Burgess next year.

...... oh yeah, and a number 5 in 2011............. (cuz lets face it, I might be dead then and it won't matter one GD whiff at that point).

Burgess makes us better in the only real weak spot we got next year....... for that, i'll take my chances in 2010-12 on a couple mid rounders.

Sorry DI but... best post here in freakin' ages PNY...:youtheman:

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Next time you win a SB, then we'll actually give a **** about your opinion as it relates to what BB does.

Bottom line, a pass rushing OLB is about the only weakness we had going in. This {somewhat} addresses that. Thats good enough for me. Jesus we are fat with day 1 picks next year. WTF, how many aces do you think are in the deck? I'm more then willing to take a 3rd round flyer on Burgess next year.

...... oh yeah, and a number 5 in 2011............. (cuz lets face it, I might be dead then and it won't matter one GD whiff at that point).

Burgess makes us better in the only real weak spot we got next year....... for that, i'll take my chances in 2010-12 on a couple mid rounders.

I'm pretty sure that this message board is set up in part so that people can voice their opinions, even when they don't align exactly with team management.

As for caring about opinions..... well, I'll leave it there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Sorry DI but... best post here in freakin' ages PNY...:youtheman:

It was a silly post, to say the least. However, I'll keep it in mind for the next time you disagree, even slightly, with Patriots management.

Remember, from now on, you're not allowed to disagree with anything BB does.

 

[makoute]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

So have anyone heard from Burgess or his rep yet?