Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft picks

[Rob0729]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

That's what I was thinking. Was Gabriel ever considered "good"?

Yeah, Gabriel was a guy who looked to have potential, but in the NFL potential and about $9.95 will get you a soy latte at Starbucks.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

wait you like the Burgess move....he isn't to old for your tastes???

My point was that the LB's and pass rush were weak and needed to be addressed. Most people disagreed with my opinion but BB felt that the pass rush needed to be addressed. In fact, I haven't heard anything about Pierre Woods stepping up which is not a good thing. In the end, a trade for pass rush help was inevetiable.

Sure, Burgess wasn't my first choice, but if he can stay healthy, he could have a monster year. In fact, Burgess is going to command less attention because opposing teams have to focus on Thomas and the Pats D-line. And don't forget, he's a free agent after this year so he will be playing for his next contract.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Mike Reiss is now confirming that the trade for Burgess was for a 3rd and 4th in 2010 and the 4th is conditional on NE acquiring a 5th which would then replace the 4th.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I didnt know pride depended on other people around you.
If Burgess didnt care because it was the Raiders and didnt have any pride in his own performance becuase Lane Kiffin was the coach, send him back.
I know thats not the case, but you are trying to make excuses for his production and implying much worse things about his character.

So you must have been really annoyed last year when we extended Randy Moss....

Come on, don't pretend that people are unaffected by poisonous atmospheres, or that a player who has lost the zest can get it back with a change of teams. It happens all the time.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

My point was that the LB's and pass rush were weak and needed to be addressed. Most people disagreed with my opinion but BB felt that the pass rush needed to be addressed. In fact, I haven't heard anything about Pierre Woods stepping up which is not a good thing. In the end, a trade for pass rush help was inevetiable.

Sure, Burgess wasn't my first choice, but if he can stay healthy, he could have a monster year. In fact, Burgess is going to command less attention because opposing teams have to focus on Thomas and the Pats D-line. And don't forget, he's a free agent after this year so he will be playing for his next contract.

I have no idea what point you are refering too because I didn't read the 200+ posts in this thread... .I was refering to the many posts you have made the last few years critizing all the 30+ year old LBs we have had.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Sorry, I thought you posted that you would be dssappointed if teh Pats gave up more than a fourth round pick. Must have been someone else

All I said was "Hope it's just a 4th." ... it wasn't, but I'm still okay with the deal. Would I be happier it was just a 4th? Of course- who wouldn't be? I agree with an earlier post- this deal works well for both teams, assuming the Raiders ever learn how to draft.

AND GUESS WHAT? If it gets us to the Superbowl and a win there, I'll be even happier! Is that okay? I didn't think what I said was such a big deal... If I act dissapointed, will you feel better that you "won" this one? Yeesh.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: DAM ... Belichick must be a HUGE Riaders fan ?

Actually, the correct call would have been, PERSONAL FOUL, BLOW TO THE HEAD OF THE QUARTERBACK, 15 YARDS, AUTOMATIC FIRST DOWN.

Yes, Good one! The officials missed that play. There were less flagrant QB head smacks that drew a flag.

Why is it the Raider fans are miffed at that one and are o.k. with the Hamilton phantom roughing call and Raider LB Phil Villipiano not just holding but kidnapping Russ Francis on a key third down in 1976.

I read through the Steeler fans gripes. Funny they never mentioned the 'roids used in there first four SB wins. Do 'roids make your fingers swell? Bet there were only a few rings worn after the ceremony. It caused the death of a great OL player and messed up a few more Steelers.
In 2008 two border-line flagrant fouls changed the rules as Hines Ward tries to maim the young Bengal LB and is pleased with himself, and Steeler Safety Ryan Clark tries to injure Welker when the play is clearly over. He tries to go a little "Jack Tatum" on Wes.

Now something about a quarterback issue. People who live in glass houses............

And the Giants claimed they "stomped" the Pats but on one miraculous play taking nothing away from Tyree, there are no less than three very visible holding calls (one as clear as day in the center of the SI Super Bowl spread) and two face mask violations against the Pats on one play.

People are funny. No wonder BB holds his cards and emotions close.
DW Toys

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

My point was that the LB's and pass rush were weak and needed to be addressed. Most people disagreed with my opinion but BB felt that the pass rush needed to be addressed.

Most people disagreed that the Pats needed another pass rusher? On what board? Surely not this one, where the months leading to the draft consisted of a debate over which pass rusher they would take on day one, and where rabid throngs gathered to obsess over every rumor about Taylor/Peppers/Ellis/Burgess?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Stats without context? Oh, please: I pointed out an obvious trend, nothing more. It's not out of context at all. It's precisely IN context. Of course, the irony is that you're apologizing for his decline instead of just conceding it. It was the other players. No, it was his boo boos. No, it's because he was on the Raiders. Everyone like you is defending against the 'stats without context' rather than simply acknowledging them and admitting that they bring up a valid question about his game. Much like Moss a couple of years ago, Bryant last season and Bodden this season, Burgess is coming to the Patriots on a down note and the responsible thing is to ask whether or not that downward trend will continue.

Sorry, you left out the context. You PURPOSELY made it sound like it was Burgess fault that his sack totals have declined. Instead of looking at the REALITY in that the Raiders team dynamics changed and that change certainly played a HUGE role in his production changing, you just say "Hey Everyone, don't get too excited.. Look at this trend of his sacks going down. "

Unlike YOU, I put his stats into perspective. Acknowledging them, but also pointing out the major factors that attributed to them. OH, btw, did you notice I didn't mention about his injuries? No. Didn't think so.

Even if Burgess only puts up 5-7 sacks, I will be ecstatic. Why? Because that seems about the norm for OLBs on this team under Belichick.

The key to the Pats pass rush in 2003 and 2004 was being able to rush from all 4 linebacker positions, making it very hard for the opposing team to pick up the 4 or 5th rusher. With Burgess, Thomas, Guyton, and Mayo on the field, the Pats will be able to do just that. Rush from any of those positions. And it will help them succeed. Like it did back in 2003 and 2004.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I was obviously right, wasn't I?

Why do you think you were right? Because the Pats saw a chance to upgrade over Redd and Crable and did so? Even a blind squirrel could find that nut in the woods...

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

So you must have been really annoyed last year when we extended Randy Moss....

Come on, don't pretend that people are unaffected by poisonous atmospheres, or that a player who has lost the zest can get it back with a change of teams. It happens all the time.

I have to admit I am still not a big fan of Moss because he quit on his team in Oakland, but as long he (or Burgess) come here and play his arse off I can forgive those character flaws as long as he is a Patriot.

Besides, Burgess is in a contract year looking to show that the last few years were because of the situation he was in and not his decline in skills. The guy is going to work his arse off because he is playing for the last big contract he is going to get as a player.

 

[Urgent]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

According to Miguel, the Pats had 4.63 million in cap space. That was before all the other rookies were signed, though. However, the only one who may jump into the Top 51 was Chung.

Recognize that the 'Top 51' thing is purely artificial. Yes, it's all that is counted during the off-season. But during football season, all 53, plus the practice squad, count. Plus, you need some cap money available to sign players when members of the roster are injured and placed on injured reserve.

That's exactly what happened to Milloy - there was enough space during the artificial Rule of 51 period, but not enough room for the regular season, and Milloy was released to enable the Patriots to fit under the real salary cap.

Order of magnitude, you need about $2mm for IR replacements and PS.

So that $1.5mm roster bonus becomes relatively interesting.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I'll be interested if adding Burgess actually mean more 4-3 or if he's going to stand up and play OLB. If the Patriots still add Kevin Carter, I think the Pats could end up being in a 4-3 more than 50% of the time.

Couple of points:

1) I don't think the Pats will play with a front seven (4-3 or 3-4) much more than 50% of the time. Pats opponents are going to be involved in shootouts and probably playing from behind quite a bit...so expect to see the Pats in nickel and dime sets a lot.

2) Playing a true 4-3 changes the whole makeup of the defense, not just substituting a lineman for a LB. The Pats really don't have any linemen who fit well as a 4-3 end (Jarvis conceptually could but I'm not sold he could pull it off full-time). That means the Pats DL depth (Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Green, Wright, Brace) would only see the field in the 2 tackle spots. Who would play DE in a 4-3? AD and Burgess would be the best options there...but now who the hell is playing linebacker? Mayo should be fine at MLB and I could see Guyton as a WLB. I'm not sure I like any of the options at SLB. Instead of clarifying the situation on defense, switching to a 4-3 for any significant amount of time puts top linemen on the bench and puts already inexperienced linebackers in potentially ill-fitting situations.

3) I can see Burgess being a situational rush linebacker, not necessarily a "well-rounded" 3-4 OLB. Think Jarvis' role but at OLB. So while Woods may still be the starter opposite AD, the Pats opponents should be passing enough to get Burgess quite a few meaningful snaps.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Re: DAM ... Belichick must be a HUGE Riaders fan ?

Yes, Good one! The officials missed that play. There were less flagrant QB head smacks that drew a flag.

Why is it the Raider fans are miffed at that one and are o.k. with the Hamilton phantom roughing call and Raider LB Phil Villipiano not just holding but kidnapping Russ Francis on a key third down in 1976.

I read through the Steeler fans gripes. Funny they never mentioned the 'roids used in there first four SB wins. Do 'roids make your fingers swell? Bet there were only a few rings worn after the ceremony. It caused the death of a great OL player and messed up a few more Steelers.
In 2008 two border-line flagrant fouls changed the rules as Hines Ward tries to maim the young Bengal LB and is pleased with himself, and Steeler Safety Ryan Clark tries to injure Welker when the play is clearly over. He tries to go a little "Jack Tatum" on Wes.

Now something about a quarterback issue. People who live in glass houses............

And the Giants claimed they "stomped" the Pats but on one miraculous play taking nothing away from Tyree, there are no less than three very visible holding calls (one as clear as day in the center of the SI Super Bowl spread) and two face mask violations against the Pats on one play.

People are funny. No wonder BB holds his cards and emotions close.
DW Toys

This post says it all as far as addressing what raider fans cry over regarding the tuck rule.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

I have no idea what point you are refering too because I didn't read the 200+ posts in this thread... .I was refering to the many posts you have made the last few years critizing all the 30+ year old LBs we have had.

Right. Honestly, I see this as a one year thing. Thinking realistically, I see Burgess having a decent year but not good enough to lock up long term. Obviously, I'd rather have seen the Pats draft a young OLB but that didn't happen. In fact, this is the best they could've done post draft for this upcoming season. Also, this trade can help buy some time for Crable. If Burgess isn't a Pat after the 2009 season, the Pats may get a chance to go after Merriman or Ware.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Well this is the way I see it:

Burgess is fading, but, he will provide enough in terms of plays on the field, and production while the younger guys get it figured out. Either through injury or ineffectiveness he'll fade off during the season. He'll get cut prior to the start of the 2010 season.

It's OK, because with our roster and propensity to load up on 2nd round picks the 3rd and 5th may not have made the team.

In addition, the Raiders will use the picks poorly, and then mis-train whomever they get. This will make it look like we got the better of the trade even if Burgess only plays 10 games for us.

With an almost sure fire SB team, its stupid to leave more open holes then you have to (recall '05 and '06).

 

[patchick]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

So that $1.5mm roster bonus becomes relatively interesting.

I posted this above, but it got buried fast...

According the the SF Chronicle, the roster bonus was already paid. That should make Burgess an eminently afforable $2.0 million man.

SFGate: Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Camp notes: Wednesday

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Right. Honestly, I see this as a one year thing. Thinking realistically, I see Burgess having a decent year but not good enough to lock up long term. Obviously, I'd rather have seen the Pats draft a young OLB but that didn't happen. In fact, this is the best they could've done post draft for this upcoming season. Also, this trade can help buy some time for Crable. If Burgess isn't a Pat after the 2009 season, the Pats may get a chance to go after Merriman or Ware.

OK than......I will give you some credit for one thing you are consistant....though I think it should be noted that the level headed liking of Burgess you have you could have had with some of our aging LBs through the years as BB has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't like to draft LBs high because they are so hard to project to this system.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

Most people disagreed that the Pats needed another pass rusher? On what board? Surely not this one, where the months leading to the draft consisted of a debate over which pass rusher they would take on day one, and where rabid throngs gathered to obsess over every rumor about Taylor/Peppers/Ellis/Burgess?

Yes, this one. Most people felt that if the Pats stayed put, they'd be fine with Woods at OLB. However, even in his limited time, he showed very little pass rushing ability. In fact, I could never tell when he was on the field.

Why do you think you were right? Because the Pats saw a chance to upgrade over Redd and Crable and did so? Even a blind squirrel could find that nut in the woods...

You forgot Woods. They obviously did this to upgrade over Woods.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Re: Pats acquire DE/OLB Derrick Burgess for draft pick

17
13
8
3


...........randy moss' TD catches before coming to the pats..........

OMFG!!!! WHAT AN EFFING TREND!!! what could the pats have been thinking????