Pats 2006 draft really has hurt this team.

[Patjew]

OK, let's all agree: the things that turned out worst for the team hurt them, and the things that turned out best helped them.

So are there any specific lessons to take from those mistakes other than that we should make decisions that turn out well?

Yes: Two mistakes are worse than one mistake.

But one mistake will be spoken about much more than a dozen wise decisions.

 

[patchick]

Sure. Can this be moved to the draft forum?

A smashing idea. If this thread could turn into an actual analysis of why that draft turned out badly, huzzah.

moving...

 

[Dagg]

How many stud recievers do you think come out of a draft??

Make no mistake Colston, Marshall and Jenning are bona fide studs. Verdict still out on Santonio IMO but hes "decent" Of course next to Chad Jackson anyone is a stud.

 

[mayoclinic]

20/20 Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. BTW, are you related to Hey Bro or Captain Stone?

1) Regarding DeAngelo Williams, Joseph Addai and LenDale White. All three of those guys have HUGE blemishes on them. Addai is 26 this year and was a 5th year college RB. His numbers have steadily declined since being drafted. Prior to last season, Williams was considered a bust my MOST Panther fans. LenDale White has also been hit or miss. No. Most of us wouldn't agree that we'd be better with one of those backs. Particularly when you look at the blemished they each have.

2) Many people considered Jackson to be a steal at the time for the Patriots. You seem to forget that Jackson tore his ACL during his 1st year (late in the season in the AFCCG against the Colts) and missed a full season due to that injury. When he finally seemed to be getting on track, he couldn't earn Brady's trust. Harping on Marques Colston is a joke since everyone, including the Saints, passed on him 6 times. Colston is one of those rare gems one finds..

3) Dave Thomas - gave the Pats 3 unspectacular, but solid years
3A) Gostkowski - Has made people forget about Adam Vinatieri.
4) Mills - The Pats wanted to get him to the Practice Squad. Brad Childress decided to "STICK IT" to BB and took him off the waivers.
5) Ryan O'Callaghan - came in as a rookie and started while Kaczur was unable to play. He beat out Wesley Britt and allowed the Pats to trade Brandon Gorin. Concussion injuries set him out the next 2 years.

6) Jeremy Mincey -Probably would have stuck with the team if he'd put in the effort in camp. However, he didn't. In fact, his parting comments were "I thought they'd give me a year to learn the defense." What he didn't understand is that he had to work for that chance.

7) Dan Stevenson - Brough in and didn't make the team out of camp, but was signed to the practice squad. Ended up cut and then signed with the Phins.

8) LeKevin Smith - A solid prospect. Came in as a 7th rounder and slowly got better every year, playing on special teams and getting snaps in the rotation at DE.

9) Willie Andrews - A special teams ACE for three years until off-field issues caught up with him..

Was it a great draft? No. But it didn't suck either. You can't say a draft sucked when you get a starting RB, a kicker who is one of the best in the game, and 3 late round players who had 3 years of good contribution

Now, I'm sorry to say, but its pure speculation on your part that had the Pats drafted other people that they would have gotten a 4th Title. There are so many other things that would have helped the Pats get that 4th title that this summation of yours is but 1 of umpteen gazillion possibilties.


Shatch, if you go to the link provided by CTPatsfan, you'll find that the 2nd thread down the same spiel as yours.

I think hindisght and crying over spilt milk are a waste of time. With that in mind, I do think that 2006 was probably the poorest draft of the BB era in terms of what it ended up contributing to the team. And going in to the draft I did want us to draft a RB in the 1st round but I wanted DeAngelo Williams, and I also wanted us to draft a WR, but I wanted Greg Jennings. I also liked Richard Marshall. We probably could have got all 3 of those guys (Williams was available at 21, Jennings was taken with our 52 pick traded to GB, and we probably could have packaged 75 and 85 to trade up for Marshall).

But overall I think that one of the worst things you can do is to linger over the past and dwell on mistakes. Rectify them and move on.

 

[captain stone]

I'm not giving Bill as much grief as expected for the LaMa & CJack picks because I was on board with them, too.

LaMa had been productive splitting carries with Marion Barber at Minnesota, so a very young RB with fresh legs sounded appealing. Then again, there's also something to be said for experience, which DeAngelo Williams had in bunches.

As for CJack, a couple of publications had him ranked slightly ahead of Santonio Holmes; the others had him second. So I understood why Bill traded one of his 3rd-rounders in order to move up in the 2nd round to draft him, esp. after it was learned that Bill & Skippy had personally interviewed him.

As for David Thomas, I would've been perfectly fine with his selection, if it weren't for the fact that we already had Grahambo & Watson, 1st-rounders 2 of the previous 4 years. But at least Thomas was drafted where he should've been drafted, unlike all but one of the following players:

4th Round
Bill took FB/TE Garrett Mills; I wanted consensus best available CB Alan Zemaitis. Advantage - push; 2 TEs in a row was inexplicably, short-sightedly ******ed, but Zemaitis never did anything, either.
Bill took K Steven Gostkowski; I wanted DE Mark Anderson. Advantage - Bill.

5th Round
Bill took RT Ryan O'C; I still wanted DE Mark Anderson, whose Combine & workout #s strongly suggested that he could successfully transition to 3-4 OLB. Advantage - me; ROC was always a poor fit here, a square peg in the round hole of prototypical Pats OLmen.

6th Round
Bill took 4-3 DE Jeremy Mincey; I wanted C Greg Eslinger, an award-winner who could provide insurance in case Koppen did not re-sign (he re-signed during that season). Advantage - push; surprisingly, Eslinger never panned out, either.
Bill took OG Dan Stevenson; I wanted FS Antoine Bethea, who would've provided an upgrade over the declining Geno Wilson, and who was one of the best players available on defense, along with Rodrique Wright & Spencer Havner . Advantage - me, big time.
Bill took LeKevin Smith; I wanted DT/DE Rodrique Wright, the near-consensus BPA. Advantage - push; LK's been traded, and Wright was released by Miami last week.

7th Round
Bill took DB Willie Andrews; I wanted LB Spencer Havner, the best LB available. We needed LBs then, and still do now. Advantage - me; at least Havner's still in the league.

What really pissed me off about this draft is that Bill didn't select a defender until the 6th effin round, and then only 4-3 DE Jeremy Mincey, who had absolutely no future here as a 3-4 OLB. Just a really useless pick. It's as if the first half of 2005 never happened, and that the return of Rodney, and a full season of Tedy, would've fixed everything.

Yet Bill too often still goes "against the grain" and "by his own rules" with his over-drafting of marginal prospects in the 3rd round & beyond (and sometimes earlier).

 

[patchick]

But overall I think that one of the worst things you can do is to linger over the past and dwell on mistakes. Rectify them and move on.

Can't argue with that philosophy. But I think it is worth asking whether there's any pattern to past mistakes that suggests a change in future strategy.

Here's what leaps out at me. Take a look at all of the offensive skill players drafted under BB in the first 3 rounds:

J.R. Redmond
Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Laurence Maroney
Chad Jackson
Kevin O'Connell

Sure, it's a small sample size, but that's a mighty weak return for 6 high picks -- especially when you compare to the impressive yield they've gotten at all other positions, and on FA signings at offensive skill positions.

So...bad luck, or bad draft criteria at those positions?

 

[patchick]

Cap'n, look hard at this:

Bill took LeKevin Smith; I wanted DT/DE Rodrique Wright, the near-consensus BPA. Advantage - push; LK's been traded, and Wright was released by Miami last week.

7th Round
Bill took DB Willie Andrews; I wanted LB Spencer Havner, the best LB available. We needed LBs then, and still do now. Advantage - me; at least Havner's still in the league.

When BB's guy plays 31 games in 3 years and then is traded for the same level of draft pick they spent on him, while your guy plays 13 games in three years then is cut and out of football, that's a push.

When BB's guy has two productive seasons on the weekly active 45 then is cut for off-the-field problems, while your guy is signed as a UDFA, cut, signed by another team, cut again, kicks around on the practice squad and gets into a couple of games one year in junk time, you win.

Perhaps you're not the most objective judge?

 

[mayoclinic]

Can't argue with that philosophy. But I think it is worth asking whether there's any pattern to past mistakes that suggests a change in future strategy.

Here's what leaps out at me. Take a look at all of the offensive skill players drafted under BB in the first 3 rounds:

J.R. Redmond
Deion Branch
Bethel Johnson
Laurence Maroney
Chad Jackson
Kevin O'Connell

Sure, it's a small sample size, but that's a mighty weak return for 6 high picks -- especially when you compare to the impressive yield they've gotten at all other positions, and on FA signings at offensive skill positions.

So...bad luck, or bad draft criteria at those positions?

That's a reasonable point. I'd go even further and add Ben Watson to the list of "offensive skill players" who haven't lived up to their draft position, since he was drafted not so much as a blocking TE than as a potential offensive weapon. The Pats certainly have a better record drafting linemen and defensive players than offensive skill players overall (though we've had some nice late round hits on the QB position ). Looking at the 2009 draft, 5 of our top 6 picks were defense or linemen, with only Brandon Tate being an offensive skill player. Perhaps that's part of why this group looks so promising.

 

[captain stone]

Cap'n, look hard at this:



When BB's guy plays 31 games in 3 years and then is traded for the same level of draft pick they spent on him, while your guy plays 13 games in three years then is cut and out of football, that's a push.

When BB's guy has two productive seasons on the weekly active 45 then is cut for off-the-field problems, while your guy is signed as a UDFA, cut, signed by another team, cut again, kicks around on the practice squad and gets into a couple of games one year in junk time, you win.

Perhaps you're not the most objective judge?

Hmmm...Two inarguable points, and receiving a 5th-rounder for LeKevin was a great ROI; but I will always wonder if Wright & Havner, and others who were overlooked in the past, could've been better players had they been drafted - and taught - by Bill & co.

As for objectivity, it's true that I may be too critical, to a fault. It's just been frustrating to watch all the over-drafts from 2004, '06, '07 & '08 fulfill their destinies of under-production. Yet this is not hindsight in which I engage; as I previously stated, I prob. would've drafted LaMa & CJack, too. So many others, though, I would've drafted later, or much later, or not at all. I don't recall any of these others doing anything to prove that my fears were unfounded.

If Bill wants to cook meals that are outstanding & enduring, then he needs to shop for groceries which at least have some chance of ripening. Guss Scott, Dexter Reid, Cedric Cobbs, Ryan O'C, Jeremy Mincey, Kareem Brown, Oldenburg, Justice Hairston - and possibly Wheatley & Crable - never had a chance, not even with the Le Cordon Bleu of the NFL.