Patriots Team Culcha

[Ring 6]

Yeah, agreed. He truly reached superstardom in 2007 and stepped into a different celebrity stratosphere.

To me it is more that 2007 was when Brady became the focal point. We were a defense oriented team with a balanced approach to offense prior to that. Starting in 2007 we put winning or losing very heavily on Brady’s shoulders. Just look at the pass attempts numbers in post season games.

 

[Kasmir]

In the early days of the dynasty, I'd argue that guys like Teddy Bruschi established and maintained our team culture far more than Tom did.

More recently, too. In an interview a few weeks ago, Devin McCourty revealed that Vince Wilfork and Jerod Mayo were much more important to him as leaders when he was a rookie than Brady was.

 

[Kasmir]

The culture is more a BB culture than TBs culture, TB just has had same dedication and discipline for the sport so he fit very well in the existing culture.
He just increased it for all new guys as he became a star but worked his ass of like he was a rookie each year(except for the last year or 2, where he enjoyed time off with his kids and wife instead)

So no, it was a great time, but watch Brady struggle in Florida even though he has "elite receiving corps" around him, while the Pats will be doing well in future.

Part of the reason I think that any Pats fan should hope that Belichick was more responsible than Brady for the dynasty is because Belichick will leave a real organizational legacy that could be enduring. QB's don't do that; there's a reason it's called the Lombardi Trophy, not the Bart Starr Trophy...

 

[DarrylS]

I wonder if Brady was drafted by a "Jacksonville" type team that has been mired in mediocrity forever if the "culcha" would have been instilled with Pats?? Not sure any of those lower echelon teams would have recognized his talents and he may have been a JAG... it took a lot of heart to instill Brady over Bledsoe.. sportstalk and the sports mediots decried that move until the SB win...

The ways these teams were built and the subsequent value system instilled had a lot to do with BB and how he established and empowered team leaders to lead.. there are always mistakes and shortsightedness, but that is what humans do.

 

[1960Pats]

In the early days of the dynasty, I'd argue that guys like Teddy Bruschi established and maintained our team culture far more than Tom did.

I remember reading something about Tedy right after we drafted him that stuck with me. It was from an AU fan who said that Pats fans probably didn't know how good he was. He was right and we all found out.

That team was loaded with those type of players so it was easy for a guy with Brady's personality to stay in line. He respected authority and those teams had it in spades.

 

[1960Pats]

To me it is more that 2007 was when Brady became the focal point. We were a defense oriented team with a balanced approach to offense prior to that. Starting in 2007 we put winning or losing very heavily on Brady’s shoulders. Just look at the pass attempts numbers in post season games.

That was early in the Polianic Era, when rules were changed to help PEDton Manning. It was just our luck that B&B took advantage.

I can't stand it when the Pats don't use the run. The 2011 SB was a loss because the Pats went pass-happy against a poor Giants run defense.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

I wonder if Brady was drafted by a "Jacksonville" type team that has been mired in mediocrity forever if the "culcha" would have been instilled with Pats?? Not sure any of those lower echelon teams would have recognized his talents and he may have been a JAG... it took a lot of heart to instill Brady over Bledsoe.. sportstalk and the sports mediots decried that move until the SB win...

The ways these teams were built and the subsequent value system instilled had a lot to do with BB and how he established and empowered team leaders to lead.. there are always mistakes and shortsightedness, but that is what humans do.

I've been out of the Boston area for too long. I was still trying to figure out what "culcha" was until this post. I was going with a Spanish pronunciation and thinking it was some new term the kids speak these days.

 

[jah]

I've been out of the Boston area for too long. I as still trying to figure out what "culcha" was until this post. I was going with a Spanish pronunciation and thinking it was some new term the kids speak these days.

I couldn't even figure out it meant "culture" until the end of the post. I'm no Boston guy, I live on the good side of the state.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Do you really think you can win a championship with a 43 year old QB? Not sure if it was ego or just escaping the pressure of Foxboro for his last year or 2, having fun vs win at all cost.

If that QB is Tom Brady yes you can.

I really think at this point numbers matter more to Brady. He's already got 6 championships. All he has left to do now is promote his TB12 brand, and he has to be able to put his money where his mouth is and say "See I'm [43, 44, 45] and still putting up big numbers, my system works" and he can't do that anymore with the receivers NE has and the rebuild we're going into for a while. By the time NE is done rebuilding the offense and then the defense (if all goes as planned and there aren't 3-4 years in a row of garbage drafting) Brady would be like 47-48.

I don't think it has to be either party's fault. The two just weren't compatible anymore

 

[maust]

But right now, every player is on the bubble -- no "except Tom Brady." It'll be interesting to see how the team culture responds to the new normal .

Every player is on the bubble "except Gilmore"
...for now

 

[Ring 6]

Always BB's team, but that was shared ownership. For the better part of 20 years -- unlike @Ring 6, I don't think this began in 07 -- it's been clear that TFB was the exception to the "everybody's interchangeable" ethic. He was not expendable -- well, until age 42 -- and he would always be the conduit from BB to the team. Hence the thread - the whole model is changed, it's one of those moments. (I don't get all the side eye responses and "What?!"s).

I actually think BB is liberated to stop attempting to build around him, etc. He was the model unselfish player, but it's not like you could just blow off the offense or go run-first with TFB under center... maybe last couple years, but I would still guess quite pass-heavy. Going from memory cuz I am being lazy.

Belichick has consistently spent fewer resources on receivers over the last 20 years because of Brady. When you have the GOAT QB he can elevate the players he relies on, so spend the money in areas the GOAT can’t overcome. This has been a clear as day dynamic.
Brady was coached like everyone else. There are myriad stories of new players shocked that BB chewed out brady just like every other player.
I think it’s quite ridiculous to discuss what the culture within the team was with no insight into what it actually was and just guessing at how and why you think people you don’t know at all act within the organization

 

[PatsBoy12]

[QUOTE="PatsFanInVa, post: 5896545, member: 4769"

But right now, every player is on the bubble -- no "except Tom Brady." It'll be interesting to see how the team culture responds to the new normal .

Every player is on the bubble "except Gilmore"
...for now [/QUOTE]
I'm interested to see if there's any decline in him this season. I don't anticipate a major drop off... just something I'll be watching to see.

 

[n6249c]

Belichick has consistently spent fewer resources on receivers over the last 20 years because of Brady. When you have the GOAT QB he can elevate the players he relies on, so spend the money in areas the GOAT can’t overcome. This has been a clear as day dynamic.
Brady was coached like everyone else. There are myriad stories of new players shocked that BB chewed out brady just like every other player.
I think it’s quite ridiculous to discuss what the culture within the team was with no insight into what it actually was and just guessing at how and why you think people you don’t know at all act within the organization

I think Belichick has typically spent less on receivers because he believes they are generally an overvalued commodity. Brady had nothing to do with his thinking, just did a great job dealing with the results. Until he got spoiled and impatient in his dotage.

 

[n6249c]

Well I dont know exactly what to expect but I think we're in for quite a stretch of "woulda, coulda, shoulda".

IOW, forum business as usual

Yes, both of those are safe projections.

BTW great sig, Wax, an even safer forecast than this one.

 

[n6249c]

It became “Toms team” in 2007.

As we saw in 2008.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Belichick has typically spent less on receivers because he believes they are generally an overvalued commodity. Brady had nothing to do with his thinking, just did a great job dealing with the results. Until he got spoiled and impatient in his dotage.

We disagree, mostly because that just wouldn’t make sense.

 

[luuked]

I think Belichick has typically spent less on receivers because he believes they are generally an overvalued commodity. Brady had nothing to do with his thinking, just did a great job dealing with the results. Until he got spoiled and impatient in his dotage.

Bingo.

People should take a look at e.g. the fourth quarter against KC in the 2018 AFCCG (or the 2016 AFCCG against the Steelers) and see how often just route combinations and leverage resulted in average players like Hogan being open. That is not Brady throwing him open but the scheme working.

All this is obviously not to minimize Brady's impact on it. He essentially had multiple PhDs in that offense and could execute it perfectly. But at the same time the majority of those quick short range throws can be made by most QBs who understand the offense, have a similar accuracy and the ability to get the ball out quickly.

Its those remaining maybe 30% that made him the GOAT... where his footwork let him reset while the pocket was getting tighter and get passes off before being hit by the pass rush or those times where the mastery of the offense let him simplify things based on presnap reads. And of course recognizing blitzes and disguises with all the experience he gathered up. Also staying healthy by not taking unnecessary risks and practicing how to fall when hit.

And while those skills often elevated him and the team and made for the difference between a tight win or a tight loss, they are not what the majority of plays in a football game are like.

With Stidham it will be important to see if he can understand and run the most fundamental aspects of the offense efficiently (i.e. the other 70%) at real game speed and with big men rushing at him. If he can do that, then with experience and over time he might be able to gain some of those other 30% Brady took with him.

Which is ultimately why I don't think we will know by the end of this season if Stidham is a true successor. He will have to show continuous growth over his rookie contract for that. On the other hand if he pisses himself on the field and can't handle the offense there is a good chance we might know by the end of this season that he is not the successor.

 

[n6249c]

I think Belichick has typically spent less on receivers because he believes they are generally an overvalued commodity. Brady had nothing to do with his thinking, just did a great job dealing with the results. Until he got spoiled and impatient in his dotage.

We disagree, mostly because that just wouldn’t make sense.

Which part doesn’t make sense to you?
Belichick spending less on receivers seems accepted as a well known practice.

Thinking they are an over valued commodity makes perfect sense. He’s an economist, he knows everybody values them highly. Why would he go along with herd wisdom on that when he has always been willing to think for himself on everything else?

Brady not shaping Belichick’s thinking makes perfect sense. Belichick plans for contingencies, considers all the factors. Brady getting hurt and being unavailable has to be part of his thinking, and not just because of 2008. Bill is going to build a team that he can win with even without any one single player no matter if it’s the GOAT QB #12.

Brady doing a good job with the results, all I should have to say is look at Reche Caldwell against the Chargers. But there are enough other times when Brady made JAGs look like stars.

So, what part doesn’t make sense to you?

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Unrelated but can I say I hate the maybe not reaction? I have no idea what it means. What are you saying maybe not to? Is it just a disagree? Are you agreeing, and it's basically saying "You're right, maybe not"

It's the only reaction emoji thing that makes me re read my post and try to figure out where it fits

 

[Ring 6]

Which part doesn’t make sense to you?
Belichick spending less on receivers seems accepted as a well known practice.

Thinking they are an over valued commodity makes perfect sense. He’s an economist, he knows everybody values them highly. Why would he go along with herd wisdom on that when he has always been willing to think for himself on everything else?

Brady not shaping Belichick’s thinking makes perfect sense. Belichick plans for contingencies, considers all the factors. Brady getting hurt and being unavailable has to be part of his thinking, and not just because of 2008. Bill is going to build a team that he can win with even without any one single player no matter if it’s the GOAT QB #12.

Brady doing a good job with the results, all I should have to say is look at Reche Caldwell against the Chargers. But there are enough other times when Brady made JAGs look like stars.

So, what part doesn’t make sense to you?

It doesn’t make sense because Brady was the reason he was able to do it.