DRAFT Patriots OFFICIAL Draft Day thread - Night 1

[Deus Irae]

That entire analysis was just lazy and wrong. For example, check out this year alone. Picks that benefit us = 1 based on James White. Here's what the Garropolo trade got us as per NBC Sports:

So, as a direct result of the Garoppolo trade, the Patriots have selected:
LB Christian Sam, sixth round, 2018
RB Damien Harris, third round, 2019

And they’ve used picks acquired in subsequent trades as part of the packages to draft:
CB Duke Dawson, second round, 2018
CB Joejuan Williams, second round, 2019
OT Yodny Cajuste, third round, 2019
QB Jarrett Stidham, fourth round, 2019

And the Patriots are not done:
Chicago’s fourth-round pick, 2020

So the "analysis" includes as a negative guys they've traded but doesn't include any of the benefits they received in those trades. In addition, if the guys they drafted played and contributed but aren't on the team now, they're discounted as having no value.

Garbage.

You playing reindeer games with trade compensation is garbage. The JAG trade got one second round pick in return. That's it.

 

[manxman2601]

Not a great example.

Six picks in rounds 2+3 which netted Chung (better as a FA than draft pick), Vollmer (good) and then a bunch of nothing in Brace, Butler, Tate and Tyrone Mckenzie.

 

[PF_SU]

a study of the ‘great players’ we’ve missed out on by trading out would be an interesting project. That’s not sarcasm but genuine.

If we just talk about 1st round:

2013: traded 29 (Cordarelle Patterson) for 52 (Jamie Collins), 83 (Logan Ryan), 102 (Josh Boyce), 229 (traded). If we take a look at some of the players taken within 10 picks of that - Travis Frederick, Zach Ertz, Darius Slay

2011: they had an early 1st due to the Seymour trade, but then traded 28 (Mark Ingram) for 56 (Shane Vereen) and a 2012 1st (later used to move up for Chandler Jones). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Muhammad Wilkerson, Cameron Hayward, Andy Dalton

2009: traded 26 (Clay Matthews, they got the pick from Baltimore for 23 which was used to pick Michael Oher) and 162 for 41 (Darius Butler), 73 (traded for a 2010 second which was used to move up a couple of slots to draft Gronk and 232, Edelman) and 83 (Brandon Tate). Players taken within 10 picks - Eric Wood

2007: had an early 1st due to the Branch trade, then trade 28 (Joe Staley) for 2008 1st (Jerod Mayo) and 110 (traded). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Greg Olson, Paul Posluszny, Eric Weddle, Zach Miller

2003: had an early 1st due to the Bledsoe trade, then traded 19 (Kyle Boller) for 2004 1st (Vince Wilfork)and 41 (used to move up 5 spots for Eugene Wilson). Players taken within 10 picks - Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson

 

[manxman2601]

Excellent drafts while O'Brien was around, the same 2005-2008 era crappy drafts back in 2013-now with McDaniels back.

.

Does he have that much say?

 

[captain stone]

That entire analysis was just lazy and wrong. For example, check out this year alone. Picks that benefit us = 1 based on James White. Here's what the Garropolo trade got us as per NBC Sports:

So, as a direct result of the Garoppolo trade, the Patriots have selected:
LB Christian Sam, sixth round, 2018
RB Damien Harris, third round, 2019

And they’ve used picks acquired in subsequent trades as part of the packages to draft:
CB Duke Dawson, second round, 2018
CB Joejuan Williams, second round, 2019
OT Yodny Cajuste, third round, 2019
QB Jarrett Stidham, fourth round, 2019

And the Patriots are not done:
Chicago’s fourth-round pick, 2020

So the "analysis" includes as a negative guys they've traded but doesn't include any of the benefits they received in those trades. In addition, if the guys they drafted played and contributed but aren't on the team now, they're discounted as having no value.

Garbage.

You mean, Garbage as in, like, those six names mentioned above?

 

[captain stone]

Excellent drafts while O'Brien was around, the same 2005-2008 era crappy drafts back in 2013-now with McDaniels back.

Does he have that much say?

Yeah I'm not sure about that one either, as much as I'd like to blame Skippy too...

 

[manxman2601]

If we just talk about 1st round:

2013: traded 29 (Cordarelle Patterson) for 52 (Jamie Collins), 83 (Logan Ryan), 102 (Josh Boyce), 229 (traded). If we take a look at some of the players taken within 10 picks of that - Travis Frederick, Zach Ertz, Darius Slay

2011: they had an early 1st due to the Seymour trade, but then traded 28 (Mark Ingram) for 56 (Shane Vereen) and a 2012 1st (later used to move up for Chandler Jones). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Muhammad Wilkerson, Cameron Hayward, Andy Dalton

2009: traded 26 (Clay Matthews, they got the pick from Baltimore for 23 which was used to pick Michael Oher) and 162 for 41 (Darius Butler), 73 (traded for a 2010 second which was used to move up a couple of slots to draft Gronk and 232, Edelman) and 83 (Brandon Tate). Players taken within 10 picks - Eric Wood

2007: had an early 1st due to the Branch trade, then trade 28 (Joe Staley) for 2008 1st (Jerod Mayo) and 110 (traded). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Greg Olson, Paul Posluszny, Eric Weddle, Zach Miller

2003: had an early 1st due to the Bledsoe trade, then traded 19 (Kyle Boller) for 2004 1st (Vince Wilfork)and 41 (used to move up 5 spots for Eugene Wilson). Players taken within 10 picks - Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson

That’s quite interesting because you could make the case that those trades netted Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Chandler Jones, Edelman and Gronk. I suppose you could have done better, but not by very much.

 

[manxman2601]

That’s quite interesting because you could make the case that those trades netted Jamie Collins, Logan Ryan, Chandler Jones, Edelman and Gronk. I suppose you could have done better, but not by very much.

the original question was about whether our trading back lost us great players. Based on this, one could argue our trading back netted us three genuinely great players. Unfortunately one of those has been greater elsewhere which is another debate*

* Understood losing Chandler Jones, we were never going to pay him the money he was going to get but Akiem Hicks should never have been lost.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If we just talk about 1st round:

2013: traded 29 (Cordarelle Patterson) for 52 (Jamie Collins), 83 (Logan Ryan), 102 (Josh Boyce), 229 (traded). If we take a look at some of the players taken within 10 picks of that - Travis Frederick, Zach Ertz, Darius Slay

2011: they had an early 1st due to the Seymour trade, but then traded 28 (Mark Ingram) for 56 (Shane Vereen) and a 2012 1st (later used to move up for Chandler Jones). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Muhammad Wilkerson, Cameron Hayward, Andy Dalton

2009: traded 26 (Clay Matthews, they got the pick from Baltimore for 23 which was used to pick Michael Oher) and 162 for 41 (Darius Butler), 73 (traded for a 2010 second which was used to move up a couple of slots to draft Gronk and 232, Edelman) and 83 (Brandon Tate). Players taken within 10 picks - Eric Wood

2007: had an early 1st due to the Branch trade, then trade 28 (Joe Staley) for 2008 1st (Jerod Mayo) and 110 (traded). Players taken within the next 10 picks - Greg Olson, Paul Posluszny, Eric Weddle, Zach Miller

2003: had an early 1st due to the Bledsoe trade, then traded 19 (Kyle Boller) for 2004 1st (Vince Wilfork)and 41 (used to move up 5 spots for Eugene Wilson). Players taken within 10 picks - Willis McGahee, Dallas Clark, Larry Johnson

So they traded up for Chandler Jones, Hightower, Gronk. Trading up is a huge sign when the Pats do it.

.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It would be a blast if BB would be honest enough with us to say something like "Well, at pick X, we were going to pick player Y, but the trade came in".

"Well when the Packers called, you know, we thought, we said this Rogers guys, we'll give him a look, we'll work him out, and he looked good on the Wi coronavirus draft evaluator. When they pulled the trigger let's say it didn't take long for them to call and say they need firepower in the third, they said two, maybe three more picks in the third, and they thought we looked good for that. You know, sometmes, there are, you know, some picks, you'd want them back, some you want two of them, I think, definitely competition, you know, whoever earns the spot. We could use a veteran presence if it's Jarrett, if it's Aaron it's nothing they haven't both been through before. Who? No questions about players on our team? I understand he's getting tickets for exposing himself in the park."

 

[SEA_Pat]

You playing reindeer games with trade compensation is garbage. The JAG trade got one second round pick in return. That's it.

Just copied that from here: How Patriots used pick acquired from 49ers for Jimmy G

Didn't look into the other trades, just pointing out the weakness in that analysis.

You mean, Garbage as in, like, those six names you mentioned?

Would you mind sending me the names of four stocks I ought to buy now so that I will know which ones are going to perform well by the end of the year?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Quick thoughts ...

Washington is a mess but holy snikes their DL is nuts. Chase Young, Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Payne, Ioannidis, Settle is absolutely filthy. Talk about multiple.

Conversely NO's OL is pretty sweet. Armstead, Peat, McCoy, Ruiz, Ramczyk, Warford isn't bad at all.

I've liked TB roster and Wirfs is a big get. Their IOL is vg. Wirfs is ready day 1. Gronk/Howard inline. Godwin slot. Evans split out, will be tough to stop.

CEH is the perfect RB for KC. If he can improve in pass pro. KC will throw it 1000+ times over the next few years & he's a great rec back. He's been compared to Westbrook & others and is just a great fit here even tho I don't like RB round 1.

Cooper, Gallup & Lamb is quite the trio. Wow, perfect WRs for Dak. All similar but different. Precise r/r who are really good at the top of their routes. + Hands. Really good working the intermediate parts of the field.

I didn't like Aiyuk in round 1 but he's perfect for Kyle & Jimmy. He reminds me of CP a bit. Not as physical or physically gifted but to a lesser extent. Kyle knows/understands and more importantly will actually play to guys strengths. That's probably his biggest strength besides spacing/design. He did a great job with Deebo. Does a great job with his backs and tight ends. He just understands what to expect & ask of guys. Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle isn't bad going forward.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This just gets funnier the longer you look. Mike Vrabel's family picture is insane. He knew they'd be on TV. One kid with a mullet. One kid wearing a human blue condom costume. One kid sitting on the toilet in the background. This is hilarious !!!

 

[Uptown]

These make me feel really good (Not !), they were discussing a handful of players at 23 ? But **** it, we’re not gonna take any of them. It would be too much of a shock to the system if we drafted a stud player at 23.

Relax. You act like you’re not used to this by now

 

[Deus Irae]

Just copied that from here: How Patriots used pick acquired from 49ers for Jimmy G

Didn't look into the other trades, just pointing out the weakness in that analysis.


Would you mind sending me the names of four stocks I ought to buy now so that I will know which ones are going to perform well by the end of the year?

You're claiming something as a weakness in an analysis, when it's no such thing. The JAG trade was JAG for a second. That's it. Subsequent actions don't change that. If you pay me $40 for something (let's call it a widgibob), and then I take the $40 bucks and spend it on a DVD, a lunch out, some gas for my car and something for a pet, that doesn't magically make the trade having been a widgibob for a DVD, a lunch, gas for my car and something for a pet. The deal between you and I was still $40 for a widgibob.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting Tampa Bay note for the "winners/losers" evaluations. It's also interesting if you want to see Bucs fans bag on their OL but that's for another time.

Bucs #1 player on their realistic wishlist??…

Tristan Wirfs.

I’ve heard that they are considering creative ways to trade up if he is in reach, without mortgaging too much draft capital. Could potentially have a player on the block to help execute a move up (OJ or Donovan Smith to the Jags??)

Very interesting, I would have assumed Jedrick Wills was higher on their board. Maybe they have knowledge that the Giants will take him at 4?

Insider Info: Bucs want Wirfs..

 

[luuked]

As expected they did the rational thing and increased the number of picks. With all those picks and flexibility Day 2 will be pretty cool to watch.

 

[SBLIII]

6 picks between rounds 2,3,4?

not bad at all.

Didn't see any game changing players go late in the first round.

Trading up would have been a move I maybe would have done but trading down seems to be a better move than just pick a player you aren't 100% convinced of.

 

[borg]

2020 NFL Draft Weekend
Day 1
NE Patriots: Marqise Lee

 

[DarrylS]

What time did this trade happen 11:00 PM??.. it always seemed somewhat absurd from a marketing standpoint to drag the draft on the way it does..

OTOH expected the Pats to trade out of the first round.. a good thing is the teams have 7 minutes to pick in the 2nd and 5 minutes in the 3rd... so this may move on from the realm of "watching grass grow" to something more reasonable.