Patriot's in the mix for Brandon Flowers?

[patchick]

I thought Trumaine Johnson was the guy "common wisdom" said we obviously should have taken instead of Tavon Wilson.

Common wisdom said the safety class was lousy outside of Barron, and to avoid them until late in the draft. Common wisdom was on the money.

For kicks I just went back and looked at the draft-day thread from that year, and Mayo nailed it. Trumaine Johnson was the most mentioned/coveted player at the time, and it wasn't even close.

 

[Deus Irae]

For kicks I just went back and looked at the draft-day thread from that year, and Mayo nailed it. Trumaine Johnson was the most mentioned/coveted player at the time, and it wasn't even close.

I'd be thrilled to look it up for kicks, but they are unavailable in searches. However, it was clear from well before the draft, during the draft, and after the draft, that not taking a safety was the common wisdom.

http://articles.philly.com/2012-04-24/sports/31393187_1_jaiquawn-jarrett-safety-class-howie-roseman

 

[supafly]

The Pats, unfortunately, take a hit if they cut Arrington. That doesn't make him an absolute guarantee to make the roster, but it's pretty damn close to a guarantee. That contract was an absolute atrocity.

According to AndyJohnson, there would actually be a small savings by cutting Arrington. This is the first I've heard about it, but his analysis does make sense.

 

[Deus Irae]

According to AndyJohnson, there would actually be a small savings by cutting Arrington. This is the first I've heard about it, but his analysis does make sense.

It's the post-June 1 thing. There's no overall savings for cutting Arrington. He's still a negative cap charge overall, costing more to cut than to pay him to play another year, but you've got the 2 year thing to alleviate the hit in 2014.

 

[mayoclinic]

Common wisdom said the safety class was lousy outside of Barron, and to avoid them until late in the draft. Common wisdom was on the money.

Not quite true. Harrison Smith was a popular 2nd round option for the Pats, who ended up going late 1st to Minnesota. He's been quite good (quite possibly better than Barron through their first 2 years), and would have been perfect opposite McCourty. I'm not a big fan of revisionist drafting, but in retrospect the Pats could have taken Smith at #25 and Lavonte David at #48. Imagine this back end of the defense:

SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB L. David
S McCourty - S H. Smith
CB1 Revis - CB2 Browner
Nickel Ryan/Arrington

That would be awfully good.

 

[supafly]

One of the worst extensions I have ever seen us give. He is supposed to be our slot corner but he got beat like a drum by that JAG in the Steelers game.

Arrington is what he is, which is much better in the slot, but much worse on the outside. I think Belichick liked his versatility (or what he believed was versatility) to be able to start in different places in the secondary from the star to both outside positions.

If all goes right and he actually ends up as our slot CB, he can be effective. We've seen him do very well (with bracketed help) vs some of the bigger names in the NFL. Even in the SB loss in #46, he only allowed Victor Cruz a total of 4/24.

Whether or not that will be good enough for him to keep his job here is the main question, and I expect that there will be multiple variables that will help to determine that in training camp. My personal guess is that he stays one more year, but we'll see.

 

[supafly]

It's the post-June 1 thing. There's no overall savings for cutting Arrington. He's still a negative cap charge overall, costing more to cut than to pay him to play another year, but you've got the 2 year thing to alleviate the hit in 2014.

This was kind of what I was trying to ask him in the other thread, but I suppose either I worded it incorrectly, he misunderstood, or a combination of both.

Thank you.

EDIT: Since I know you rarely see his thoughts, this was the exact quote:
"Not really. Keeping Arrington and cutting the rookie who would take his place cost 3.625mill.
Cutting Arrington and keeping the rookie costs 2.625 mill + the cost of the rookie.

We save cap money by cutting Arrington."
----------------------

This was why I wasn't sure whether or not it was indeed a "June 1st" thing by spreading the hit or not? Judging by his thoughts, it didn't initially appear to be a post-6/1 issue to me, although I am obviously not meaning to question your judgment, as you know much more than I do about this particular subject.

EDIT #2: Nevermind, it seems as though it's pretty clear that it is indeed, a post-June 1st issue by spreading the dead cap hit over two years. Since that's the case, I don't really see AJ's point nearly as much as he was suggesting. Thanks for the help.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not quite true. Harrison Smith was a popular 2nd round option for the Pats, who ended up going late 1st to Minnesota. He's been quite good (quite possibly better than Barron through their first 2 years), and would have been perfect opposite McCourty. I'm not a big fan of revisionist drafting, but in retrospect the Pats could have taken Smith at #25 and Lavonte David at #48. Imagine this back end of the defense:

SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB L. David
S McCourty - S H. Smith
CB1 Revis - CB2 Browner
Nickel Ryan/Arrington

That would be awfully good.

I was forgetting Smith when talking about taking them all late, but it was basically a 1 safety draft, and that was talked about a lot. They had need at WR and LB, and there were quality choices available at both spots.

 

[mayoclinic]

1 year deal with the Chargers

https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/481542019546767361

PFT reports it's worth up to $5M per Ian Rapoport, with a $1.5M fully guaranteed base salary and a $1.5M signing bonus per Field Yates.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...lowers-to-make-as-much-as-5-million-in-2014/

Too rich for me. I like the CBs KC kept, especially Phillip Gaines and Marcus Cooper.

 

[OhExaulted1]

PFT reports it's worth up to $5M per Ian Rapoport, with a $1.5M fully guaranteed base salary and a $1.5M signing bonus per Field Yates.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/24/reports-brandon-flowers-to-make-as-much-as-5-million-in-2014/

Too rich for me. I like the CBs KC kept, especially Phillip Gaines and Marcus Cooper.

Well that settles it. I would never work for you. I don't know anything about these Gaines and Cooper fella's, but I'll bet I could work circles around them. They probably couldn't even identify a shovel.

 

[aussie_patriot]

I see this Flowers deal as a positive for us. Assuming both Flowers and Revis go into FA next season I can see it either keeping Revis' money down somewhat or at least provide us with other CB options if he demands more money.

Obviously the best case scenario is locking Revis in longer term for reasonable money but I think it's a positive to potentially have another viable CB option out there.

 

[Brady6]

Not quite true. Harrison Smith was a popular 2nd round option for the Pats, who ended up going late 1st to Minnesota. He's been quite good (quite possibly better than Barron through their first 2 years), and would have been perfect opposite McCourty. I'm not a big fan of revisionist drafting, but in retrospect the Pats could have taken Smith at #25 and Lavonte David at #48. Imagine this back end of the defense:

SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB L. David
S McCourty - S H. Smith
CB1 Revis - CB2 Browner
Nickel Ryan/Arrington

That would be awfully good.

Forgot about Dennard. It would be outstanding.

 

[mayoclinic]

Forgot about Dennard. It would be outstanding.

Didn't forget Dennard, just didn't go into depth. But, to elaborate:

LB: SAM Collins - MLB Mayo - WLB L. David; backup: J. Anderson (Rob Ninkovich also able to play LB)
S: McCourty - H. Smith; backup: D. Harmon
CB1 Revis - CB2 Browner; backup: Dennard/Ryan
Nickel: Ryan/Arrington

I'd take that group, personally.

 

[supafly]

I see this Flowers deal as a positive for us. Assuming both Flowers and Revis go into FA next season I can see it either keeping Revis' money down somewhat or at least provide us with other CB options if he demands more money.

Obviously the best case scenario is locking Revis in longer term for reasonable money but I think it's a positive to potentially have another viable CB option out there.

I don't think we're going to be able to lock Revis up for anything close to "reasonable" money myself, especially since the CB market took a turn for the better this offseason--which is putting it mildly.

With the recent deals of Haden, Talib, Sherman, and with P.Peterson coming up soon, I would personally expect Revis to cost around 13-14m per year; and that's not even taking his constant hardline negotiating stance into account. Let's just hope he doesn't want to be the highest paid CB on the market, which would bump the AAV per year up to 14-15 after Peterson's deal has been reached.