Patriots have Three of the Fastest Players on Defense

[jimnance]

What?? and we paid Stephon Gilmore all that $$$?? BB the GM I tell ya again.

Gilmore was a good signing. But he was signed more for his potential to BECOME elite, not for what he already was,which was a maddingly inconsistent cb who showed flashes of being really good.
But he was NEVER in the same class as Butler, who is an elite cb.
Butler and Gilmore have nearly identical 40 times, but anyone who watches closely knows Butler's makeup speed is better. But Gilmore is still very good.
Both of them are physical cbs who ate great at jamming wrs who are bigger then them at the los. Both very good tacklers, tho Butler may the best in the NFL.
We haven't seen their best yet. Just wait.
They're part of one of the best secondaries in the league. If Pat's find a way to keep Butler, next year they could be really special. I think they both push each other to excel.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

In the back end, that's true.

The front 7 is about as slow as the secondary is fast, however.

I mean, sort of? I've heard this narrative a lot, but I don't completely buy it. There's definitely room for improvement in play, but I don't think it's because we're lining up players with glacial speeds.

Define the front 7 -- we've had a lot of rotating parts. Some of the newer guys, like M. Flowers, are extremely fast (4.51). Flowers and Wise aren't burners, but they play inside/outside, and their timed speed is fine for that role. No one expects DTs other than Aaron Donald to be speedsters, although Butler is a very good athlete. Van Noy is back, and has above-average speed for his size / position. Ditto Eric Lee. Oh, and Roberts, while he doesn't always make the right read, is significantly above the average at his position.

Really what it comes down to is that we've given up some big plays because of failure to contain the edges, which results in front 7 defenders pursuing the play and the secondary cleaning up -- either that, or people are pining after that explosive, prototypical edge rusher, even though the Patriots finished top 10 in sacks. I don't think it's a big deal. We did draft a guy like that in Rivers, at any rate, but he went down with an ACL.

Who do you specifically think is too slow or too lacking in athleticism in the front 7? I'm not saying there's no room for improvements / upgrades, but in terms of timed speed and on field play speed, our guys are pretty consistently at or above league averages.

 

[goheels22002]

Besides Al Davis who really cares?

Are you referring to the former owner/GM of the Raiders whose current slogan is "Just Decompose, Baby!"?

 

[upstater1]

Does the N.F.L. Have a Usain Bolt? Here Are the League’s Fastest Players

I found it very interesting that a few of the top DBs in the league in terms of football speed play for the Patriots. Seems as though Belichick is adept at measuring true football speed, as opposed to timed 40s.

Also, the WR crew for the Patriots is among the fastest in the league, even though we never seem to draft speedy WRs. With Cook & Hogan out there, it makes sense.

 

[jah]

I mean, sort of? I've heard this narrative a lot, but I don't completely buy it. There's definitely room for improvement in play, but I don't think it's because we're lining up players with glacial speeds.

Define the front 7 -- we've had a lot of rotating parts. Some of the newer guys, like M. Flowers, are extremely fast (4.51). Flowers and Wise aren't burners, but they play inside/outside, and their timed speed is fine for that role. No one expects DTs other than Aaron Donald to be speedsters, although Butler is a very good athlete. Van Noy is back, and has above-average speed for his size / position. Ditto Eric Lee. Oh, and Roberts, while he doesn't always make the right read, is significantly above the average at his position.

Really what it comes down to is that we've given up some big plays because of failure to contain the edges, which results in front 7 defenders pursuing the play and the secondary cleaning up -- either that, or people are pining after that explosive, prototypical edge rusher, even though the Patriots finished top 10 in sacks. I don't think it's a big deal. We did draft a guy like that in Rivers, at any rate, but he went down with an ACL.

Who do you specifically think is too slow or too lacking in athleticism in the front 7? I'm not saying there's no room for improvements / upgrades, but in terms of timed speed and on field play speed, our guys are pretty consistently at or above league averages.

This is purely anecdotal, but that very athletic sack by Malcom Brown recently was something I can't remember seeing a Patriots front 7 player pull off in a long time, yet I see other teams do it every week.

I'm reminded of all the times a guy on this team has had the opposing QB dead to rights and somehow still allowed a pass attempt or long scramble. Is that bad tackling or bad closing speed?

It also seems like whenever a running back makes it past ~5 yards, the tackle is made from the back end rather than a linebacker catching up.

I'm sure a lot of this is role design. The defense as a whole gets it done. The front 7 is just painful to watch at times and it seems to be a speed issue. Really, I just want to see one of our guys catch one of their guys from behind. It CAN be done despite the obvious speed differences between a running back and a defensive end.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

This is purely anecdotal, but that very athletic sack by Malcom Brown recently was something I can't remember seeing a Patriots front 7 player pull off in a long time, yet I see other teams do it every week.

I'm reminded of all the times a guy on this team has had the opposing QB dead to rights and somehow still allowed a pass attempt or long scramble. Is that bad tackling or bad closing speed?

It also seems like whenever a running back makes it past ~5 yards, the tackle is made from the back end rather than a linebacker catching up.

I'm sure a lot of this is role design. The defense as a whole gets it done. The front 7 is just painful to watch at times and it seems to be a speed issue. Really, I just want to see one of our guys catch one of their guys from behind. It CAN be done despite the obvious speed differences between a running back and a defensive end.

Fair enough. I think those are probably valid criticisms. Our tackling looked less than satisfactory on several occasion this year, although times that stand out to me when guys couldn't wrap up were either against Watson, who looked electric until his injury, or Jordan Richards and his olé act against Cutler.

Believe it or not, only 5 teams had more sacks than the Patriots this year. Perhaps if we looked at snaps played vs sacks, we'd have a poorer ratio, but overall I think it's a pretty good indicator that we were able to get home and cause some pressure. No player had more than 6.5, I believe,

National Football League Stats - by Team Category | NFL.com


A quick survey of plays from our last game shows that the front 7 is alive and well, despite our perceptions. Sure, the Jete are pretty mediocre, but if our guys are super slow or unathletic, I don't think they'd consistently make this many splash plays:


Catch a guy from behind? Like this?



Or perhaps like this?



Or how about this closing speed for a sack (and notice the collapsing pocket)?



Back only needs two yards in space -- can the defender catch him?



Can they create pressure and finish the job for a safety?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

What have I been coaching?

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

Where's Alan Branch?

 

[The Brandon Five]

Where's Alan Branch?

Top speed measured in MPD (miles per day).

 

[Marko]

Butler's speed is not really a surprise to anyone who's really paid attention. He's probably the 2nd fastest cb on the team, after JJ.

I think the surprise comes from Butler's pedestrian 40 yd dash time of 4.6, which reportedly was why he went undrafted. I have long believed that many of the combine tests are not only useless, but can be misleading.
Too often these are dependent on being good at the event rather then what they are trying to evaluate.

 

[jimnance]

I think the surprise comes from Butler's pedestrian 40 yd dash time of 4.6, which reportedly was why he went undrafted. I have long believed that many of the combine tests are not only useless, but can be misleading.
Too often these are dependent on being good at the event rather then what they are trying to evaluate.

That 4.6 time was bogus, as BB himself has said. Pat's timed him at 4.3+-4.4 numerous times before signing him.
Yet some clowns( even here) want to continue false narrative that his 4.6 "pro day" time is somehow "official".
I'll put more stock in what the Patriots say.
But hey, it was our gain. Rest of the league bypassed a top cb.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Thanks for the article, nice read, but your intro a little misleading: the next three IDENTIFIED are Patriots, but only 3 of 4 NEXT FASTEST are Patriots (smaller is better here), so pats at spots 3,4 and 5:

David Amerson, Raiders (21.62)
Devin McCourty, Patriots (21.66)
Johnson Bademosi, Patriots (21.72)
Malcolm Butler, Patriots (22.07)

I believe these are speeds in MPH, so bigger is better.