Patriots Defense Has a Chance to End a Ravens Streak

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Dec 6th

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Ian

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Read this earlier and thought it was interesting: Ravens have the league's No. 1 rushing attack and have scored 20-plus points in an NFL-record 31 consecutive games.

I like the fact this game is at home and this group has played pretty well down in the red area. Should be interesting to see if they can snap this streak for Baltimore this weekend ;)
 

italian pat patriot

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Read this earlier and thought it was interesting: Ravens have the league's No. 1 rushing attack and have scored 20-plus points in an NFL-record 31 consecutive games.

I like the fact this game is at home and this group has played pretty well down in the red area. Should be interesting to see if they can snap this streak for Baltimore this weekend ;)
If if if if if the Pats should get a win i do not know if i will be happy or frustrated for Den and Buf losses more and more...
But an eventual win would start to create an hope for this season too...my 2 cents...
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
At least it's not like last time when we were 8-0 and they toyed with the #B:D:DgEYmEN like they didn't belong on the field with the Ravens offense. That was hard to watch.

Now they don't know what to expect from us and neither do we. LOL
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player

Finishing the game with 14 targets, 81 yards, a touchdown and 10 catches (ties a career high for Sanu) under his belt, Sanu is definitely cementing himself as a reliable player for the Patriots offense, and is resonating with fans.

:D:D:D
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
This defense doesn’t have a DT that can swallow up blockers and prevent them from getting a hat on our backers at the next level. On top of that, nobody outside of Wino has shown that they can consistently set the edge. Unless Jackson fires 2-3 picks (which could easily be matched by Cam in the face of the blitz), that streak is still alive after this weekend.

We BADLY need a toilet clogger NT, and have for some time. I’d put that as easily the second biggest need in the offseason/draft, right behind QB.
 

gitgronked82

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
This defense doesn’t have a DT that can swallow up blockers and prevent them from getting a hat on our backers at the next level. On top of that, nobody outside of Wino has shown that they can consistently set the edge. Unless Jackson fires 2-3 picks (which could easily be matched by Cam in the face of the blitz), that streak is still alive after this weekend.

We BADLY need a toilet clogger NT, and have for some time. I’d put that as easily the second biggest need in the offseason/draft, right behind QB.
I wonder where we went wrong there. We pretty always have someone in that role (given there was a long time where it was Vince and we didn’t need to worry about it). But it seems Bill is generally aware of the fact that it’s necessary.
Was it just supposed to be Allen this year?
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I wonder where we went wrong there. We pretty always have someone in that role (given there was a long time where it was Vince and we didn’t need to worry about it). But it seems Bill is generally aware of the fact that it’s necessary.
Was it just supposed to be Allen this year?
I’d hope not but who knows? I think he went away from it when the league started trending toward being a wide open, 4 to 5-wide passing league. Naturally, the only constant thing in this life (aside from death and taxes) is change. The league is beginning to get bigger to attack those light defenses and ram the ball down their throats. He tried to address it with Shelton, but Shelton was more of a one gapping 3-Tech. Not a two gapping 0-Tech, like Vince, which is what we need.
 

Joey007

Pro Bowl Player
This defense doesn’t have a DT that can swallow up blockers and prevent them from getting a hat on our backers at the next level. On top of that, nobody outside of Wino has shown that they can consistently set the edge. Unless Jackson fires 2-3 picks (which could easily be matched by Cam in the face of the blitz), that streak is still alive after this weekend.

We BADLY need a toilet clogger NT, and have for some time. I’d put that as easily the second biggest need in the offseason/draft, right behind QB.
Is Guy going to be back? Doesn’t fill this void, but we’ll sure need him.
 

gitgronked82

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I’d hope not but who knows? I think he went away from it when the league started trending toward being a wide open, 4 to 5-wide passing league. Naturally, the only constant thing in this life (aside from death and taxes) is change. The league is beginning to get bigger to attack those light defenses and ram the ball down their throats. He tried to address it with Shelton, but Shelton was more of a one gapping 3-Tech. Not a two gapping 0-Tech, like Vince, which is what we need.
Admittedly I was a receiver and have spent my life learning coverages and passing concepts, not fronts... so I don’t know much about 3-tech vs 0-tech.
is one gapping vs two gapping whether you play in one gap vs trying to play both? i.e. one gapping would be lining up in one of the a gaps, whereas two gapping you would play head up on the center and try to read the play and maintain coverage of either gap (which I think is how we played vs rams ozone in SB53)?
 

BradytoMosstoGronk

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
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I'm concerned we give up 175+ yards rushing here, and don't think Jackson needs 200 yards passing. Theyll hang 20, but what remains to be seen is what defense shows up in regards to giving up 30+. Definitely worried.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Read this earlier and thought it was interesting: Ravens have the league's No. 1 rushing attack and have scored 20-plus points in an NFL-record 31 consecutive games.

I like the fact this game is at home and this group has played pretty well down in the red area. Should be interesting to see if they can snap this streak for Baltimore this weekend ;)
Not.

A.

Chance.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Admittedly I was a receiver and have spent my life learning coverages and passing concepts, not fronts... so I don’t know much about 3-tech vs 0-tech.
is one gapping vs two gapping whether you play in one gap vs trying to play both? i.e. one gapping would be lining up in one of the a gaps, whereas two gapping you would play head up on the center and try to read the play and maintain coverage of either gap (which I think is how we played vs rams ozone in SB53)?
First thing you have to understand is the numbers. 0 is head up on the center, 2 is head up on a guard on either side, 4 is head up on a tackle. A 1 tech will line up in the gap between the center and the guard but generally shades towards the TE or the strong side of the formation. A 3 tech lines up between the guard and the tackle on the weak side. There are of course a ton of variations and other ways to do it based on play calls, weaknesses, and things you want to attack but lets stick to the basic concept.

The difference between a 1 tech and a 3 tech is, and again I am talking in generalities, you want your 1 tech to be a big strong fatty in the 320-350 lb range whose soul job is to absorb both a guard and the center blocking them. He needs to keep two guys on the line for 2-3 seconds so that the linebacker behind him is clean and able to make a 1 on 1 tackle on the RB. A 1 tech wont have a ton of stats or even look like they are all that important. They face a ton of combo blocks where the guard helps the center get him 2 yards off the ball and then slids to the LB. Think Wilfork he was absolutely the stereotype 0 tech NT or 1 tech.

Now a 3 tech needs to be a little more versatile as they play both the run and the pass. They tend to be in the 290-300 lb range. Generally they go 1 on 1 with a guard and have to beat him to a spot. You can do that either with power, speed, quickness, lots of different types and ways to do it but they arent usually asked to take on 2 people like a 1 tech. If I was designing a 3 tech it would end up looking alot like Warren Sapp....without the douche.

Here's where it gets fun. In a 3-4 you have 1 really big fatty in the middle who has to protect 2 LBs and (2) 3 tech type players. Think of the pats d line in the early 2000's. They had 3 really big really good fat guys that chewed up blockers and let the Linebackers make plays. In today's 4-3 you hear more of Lawrence Guy cuz he is expected to make some tackles instead of just absorbing blockers.

Now you can 1 gap or 2 gap from any tech in either formation. A 1 tech DT could be lined up towards the strong side but be responsible for the weak side A gap cuz a LB is going to blitz the strong side A gap. 1 gapping versus 2 gapping is more a risk/reward philosophy then a body type. 2 gapping is a reaction based defense that won't make a big play but is less likely to give up a big play either. 1 gapping is more of an attacking defense where the goal is to be 2 yards in the back field in your gap. Yeah you might get more sacks and tackles for a loss, but you open up cut back lanes and escape routes.

Hope that helped with the basics. Like I said before there are a ton of variations but its mostly semantics based on personal. If you have great aggressive players that are better at do this and be there you probably want a 4-3 1 gap defense. If you have smart players that can do alot of everything a 3-4 2 gap works too. The problem with the pats right now is besides Guy (a 3 tech body type) they got a whole lot of nothing at the 1 tech body type when you should have 2. I agree that a proper 1 tech is priority 1 behind QB of the future.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
First thing you have to understand is the numbers. 0 is head up on the center, 2 is head up on a guard on either side, 4 is head up on a tackle. A 1 tech will line up in the gap between the center and the guard but generally shades towards the TE or the strong side of the formation. A 3 tech lines up between the guard and the tackle on the weak side. There are of course a ton of variations and other ways to do it based on play calls, weaknesses, and things you want to attack but lets stick to the basic concept.

The difference between a 1 tech and a 3 tech is, and again I am talking in generalities, you want your 1 tech to be a big strong fatty in the 320-350 lb range whose soul job is to absorb both a guard and the center blocking them. He needs to keep two guys on the line for 2-3 seconds so that the linebacker behind him is clean and able to make a 1 on 1 tackle on the RB. A 1 tech wont have a ton of stats or even look like they are all that important. They face a ton of combo blocks where the guard helps the center get him 2 yards off the ball and then slids to the LB. Think Wilfork he was absolutely the stereotype 0 tech NT or 1 tech.

Now a 3 tech needs to be a little more versatile as they play both the run and the pass. They tend to be in the 290-300 lb range. Generally they go 1 on 1 with a guard and have to beat him to a spot. You can do that either with power, speed, quickness, lots of different types and ways to do it but they arent usually asked to take on 2 people like a 1 tech. If I was designing a 3 tech it would end up looking alot like Warren Sapp....without the douche.

Here's where it gets fun. In a 3-4 you have 1 really big fatty in the middle who has to protect 2 LBs and (2) 3 tech type players. Think of the pats d line in the early 2000's. They had 3 really big really good fat guys that chewed up blockers and let the Linebackers make plays. In today's 4-3 you hear more of Lawrence Guy cuz he is expected to make some tackles instead of just absorbing blockers.

Now you can 1 gap or 2 gap from any tech in either formation. A 1 tech DT could be lined up towards the strong side but be responsible for the weak side A gap cuz a LB is going to blitz the strong side A gap. 1 gapping versus 2 gapping is more a risk/reward philosophy then a body type. 2 gapping is a reaction based defense that won't make a big play but is less likely to give up a big play either. 1 gapping is more of an attacking defense where the goal is to be 2 yards in the back field in your gap. Yeah you might get more sacks and tackles for a loss, but you open up cut back lanes and escape routes.

Hope that helped with the basics. Like I said before there are a ton of variations but its mostly semantics based on personal. If you have great aggressive players that are better at do this and be there you probably want a 4-3 1 gap defense. If you have smart players that can do alot of everything a 3-4 2 gap works too. The problem with the pats right now is besides Guy (a 3 tech body type) they got a whole lot of nothing at the 1 tech body type when you should have 2. I agree that a proper 1 tech is priority 1 behind QB of the future.

Wow, this is a great post. Thank you!

In these same terms, what did we see during peak Seymore-Willfork-Warren in the oughts? (if you don't mind)
 

203Pat

In the Starting Line-Up
I thought last year was tough to watch with Jamie Collins turning into Harlon Barrnett on half the Ravens runs. This year we will have a significantly less athletic LB getting put in a blender as well as Adrian Phillips getting bulldozed into the earth when a pulling guard gets ahold of him. I don't see that there is any way we hold them under 30.
 

pazrul72

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Wow, this is a great post. Thank you!

In these same terms, what did we see during peak Seymore-Willfork-Warren in the oughts? (if you don't mind)
Your welcome I am always willing to share I love talking football.

That line was the best 3-4 line I have ever seen. Its a big part of why we have so much nostalgia for those early dynasty LBs they were kept clean and allowed to run around making plays. 3-4 is really a misnomer it should be called a 5-2 as the 2 LBs on the end are more DEs who can run but lets focus on the 3 lineman.

First thing and this is the most crucial part of any 3-4 is your Nose tackle. Generally lines up as a 0 tech with two LBs behind him. He has to be able to take on two blockers but it could be either guard coming down on him because there isn't a 2nd lineman right next to him. Wilfork was that guy and he was a monster. I loved watching him play and stone guys not allowing them to scrape to the 2nd level. With Warren and Seymore they moved around alot depending on the call. If you wanted to shut down the middle cuz you expected a power run you have them line up as 2 techs taking on potentially a guard and a tackle. You could have them both as 3 techs if you wanted to attack a gap. If its 3rd and long they could line up as 5 techs and attack a guard or tackle. The beauty of having 3 guys capable of playing like that is if you have them both 3 tech and 2 gap you have 3 guys creating a pile of bodies with no gaps taking out 5 O lineman leaving 2 LBs free to take out the ball carrier. The early dynasty Pats were a nightmare to run against for that reason.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
First thing and this is the most crucial part of any 3-4 is your Nose tackle. Generally lines up as a 0 tech with two LBs behind him. He has to be able to take on two blockers but it could be either guard coming down on him because there isn't a 2nd lineman right next to him. Wilfork was that guy and he was a monster. I loved watching him play and stone guys not allowing them to scrape to the 2nd level. With Warren and Seymore they moved around alot depending on the call. If you wanted to shut down the middle cuz you expected a power run you have them line up as 2 techs taking on potentially a guard and a tackle. You could have them both as 3 techs if you wanted to attack a gap. If its 3rd and long they could line up as 5 techs and attack a guard or tackle. The beauty of having 3 guys capable of playing like that is if you have them both 3 tech and 2 gap you have 3 guys creating a pile of bodies with no gaps taking out 5 O lineman leaving 2 LBs free to take out the ball carrier. The early dynasty Pats were a nightmare to run against for that reason.
Yep, Wilfork & Mount Washington before him during 2003, and even Tractor Traylor in 2004 were the standard-bearing NTs needed to effectively run a proper 3-4...Strange that Bill didn't bring in or draft anybody else of that body type until the disastrous Busto Brace pick of 2009...
 

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