Patriots cut safety Brandon Meriweather(merged jumbo thread)

[Joker]

Just shut it, Ray Ray/Jetfan1...you are "shocked!!!!!!!" the Pats cut Tate?? what a little weasley post...have you any idea of who the hell Price even is???? Tate had plenty of opportunity to forge a place in the offense last season and blew it...his skill at KR's are a non factor THIS season because of the KO rules...or did you fail to notice THAT too? As far as Meriweather and coverage being his strength...just cut your losses and get back to J.I. to continue your shameless pimping of Maybe-bin...what you know about the Patriots and what they're doing this season wouldn't even fit on the head of a pin.

 

[Rob0729]

Exactly. Meriweather's strength is his coverage ability, he's a big hitter and his athletic. His faults are in space and in zone. He's not a cerebral player, and in BB's scheme in the secondary, they need to be able to see things as Belichick does.

It's not surprising Rob had a spin for the move, everything the Patriots do is golden, he'll go out and find the hack that he can spin off of, in this case Bedard, and off he goes, the Pats made a great move. I don't think the guy has ever criticized a Patriot move.

The Meriweather move is puzzling, my own sense is that Meriweather wasn't intuitive enough, and didn't develop well enough for Belichick's liking. Good athlete, when asked to patrol a zone scheme and to execute the very many different sets and plays Belichick probably has in his playbook, Meriweather could not master it.

I'm shocked the Pats didn't get anything for him, while the Jets got a conditional pick for a lesser player in Lowery.

I could see the Jets making a play for him, but he won't be a starter, he'd be a better fit in nickel and dime situations where can use his athleticism and cover a side of the field, or move up and provide coverage.

Biggest question I have is why would the Pats give up both starting safeties without established players or at least players with upside and potential behind him? Is Chung really being viewed as that kind of player?

The player I'd like to see the Jets go after is Brandon Tate, I was shocked to see the Pats gave up on him as well.

LOL! I don't think it is a bad move, but I thought the safety position is a big weakness with or without Meriweather. It was just clear that Meriweather has been regressing for over a year and he doesn't fit the system anymore. I am not thrilled that Sergio Brown or Josh Barrett are going to start at FS, but one of those guys were going to start with or without Meriweather.

I personally think Belichick made a mistake at this position. He should have found a better option than what he has. I just don't think that option is Meriweather.

 

[Rob0729]

Just shut it, Ray Ray/Jetfan1...you are "shocked!!!!!!!" the Pats cut Tate?? what a little weasley post...have you any idea of who the hell Price even is???? Tate had plenty of opportunity to forge a place in the offense last season and blew it...his skill at KR's are a non factor THIS season because of the KO rules...or did you fail to notice THAT too? As far as Meriweather and coverage being his strength...just cut your losses and get back to J.I. to continue your shameless pimping of Maybe-bin...what you know about the Patriots and what they're doing this season wouldn't even fit on the head of a pin.

Yeah, I haven't checked on the JI site, but I am betting he is crowing that Brandon Tate is another Patriots bust. Here is shocked the Pats would let such a good player go.

 

[JetFan1]

LOL! I don't think it is a bad move, but I thought the safety position is a big weakness with or without Meriweather. It was just clear that Meriweather has been regressing for over a year and he doesn't fit the system anymore. I am not thrilled that Sergio Brown or Josh Barrett are going to start at FS, but one of those guys were going to start with or without Meriweather.

I personally think Belichick made a mistake at this position. He should have found a better option than what he has. I just don't think that option is Meriweather.

Fair enough, good to see you have it in you.

If they wanted to move Meriweather, fine, but releasing him, without compensation, and then not having anything established behind him is a big risk.

BTW, you were harping on the Patriots possibly changing their scheme, they might run more 4-3 sets, but it will still be a hybrid 3-4, it may not even be a 4-3 or a 3-4, to me Belichick is looking to improve against the run, and he hadn't been able to get the talent he needed at LB after several years trying. Players like Carter and Anderson, while they are listed as DE, I can see them being used as 3-4 OLB, much like what Houston is doing with Williams. And whatever Belichick tries to do up front, it really doesn't have that much of a bearing on what he does in the secondary, Belichick's secondaries will always be heavy in zone, and not as much coverage and man to man, he hasn't done it in all of his years coaching, it has nothing to do with what he does with his defensive front IMO.

 

[JetFan1]

Yeah, I haven't checked on the JI site, but I am betting he is crowing that Brandon Tate is another Patriots bust. Here is shocked the Pats would let such a good player go.

You will be disappointed then.

 

[Rob0729]

Fair enough, good to see you have it in you.

If they wanted to move Meriweather, fine, but releasing him, without compensation, and then not having anything established behind him is a big risk.

BTW, you were harping on the Patriots possibly changing their scheme, they might run more 4-3 sets, but it will still be a hybrid 3-4, it may not even be a 4-3 or a 3-4, to me Belichick is looking to improve against the run, and he hadn't been able to get the talent he needed at LB after several years trying. Players like Carter and Anderson, while they are listed as DE, I can see them being used as 3-4 OLB, much like what Houston is doing with Williams. And whatever Belichick tries to do up front, it really doesn't have that much of a bearing on what he does in the secondary, Belichick's secondaries will always be heavy in zone, and not as much coverage and man to man, he hasn't done it in all of his years coaching, it has nothing to do with what he does with his defensive front IMO.

Belichick isn't trying to improve against the run (other than always trying to improve in all phases). He is trying to improve against the pass. The Pats were good against the run last year. It was third down defense where the Pats got killed last year and that is mostly passing. He wants a more of an attack style defense that will pressure the QB.

Lowery is actually easier to move because he is playing for the veteran minimum. The conditional pick may not even be compensated. Eventhough Meriweather's base is low, his escalators bring it close to $3 milllion. Many teams might rather just try to get him for the veteran minimum. I don't know what the escalators are, but if they are easy to get; another team might not want to pay him that.

 

[Ring 6]

I never said the Pats are a cover 1 team, but it is one of the cover 1 is one of the coverages in a man scheme. And yes because the Pats are moving to more man defense, it will likely happen.




The Pats have played strong and free in the past when they the early part of the dynasty years.



First, I don't think the Pats will play man exclusively, but they will play it far, far more this year.

Second, in the early years the Pats did play traditional FS and SS. They did a lot of it in 2000 and 2001.



Chung is not a great cover guy, but he doesn't make the mental mistakes that Meriweather makes. If Meriweather had Chung's mental abilities, he would be an elite safety. He gambles and gambles stupidily.



First, you typically don't play left side, right side in a man coverage scheme.



Sorry, but the Pats didn't keep all these defensive linemen (many of them who are not 3-4 players) to not change the scheme. If they were going to only play a four man front in nickel and dime, they would have kept Meriweather.

They really aren't keeping a lot more D Lineman because some of the players considered DEs are OLBs in the 34.
We kept Ellis, Wright, AH, VW, Love, Pryor, Warren which is 7 'interior DL' which is about what we keep always.

Im curious why the number of DL would have to do with proving the change in scheme?
You do realize that our 34 always sent 4 rushers and the only difference is the DE is in a stance and the OLB stood up right?
4 man front vs 3 indicates nothing about what the safety will do.

I know you refuse to believe that the Pats are changing their scheme, but when former players like Bruschi and Brown and media guys who are close to Belichick like Michael Holley are saying they are I tend to believe them.

I don't refuse to accept anything. I will believe that Bill Belichick does a complete 180 on his beliefs and plays 1 gap defense with 2 260lb DEs and a man coverage scheme when I see it. And part of presesason doesnt qualify as seeing it.
Are you telling me that those guys have been told by BB what he is going to do?

Everyone in the media are saying he is changing his scheme. It isn't just because one guy thinks this and the media jumped aboard.

Well then by all means show me all of these insiders who have said we will be playing man "far, fr more this year".

There will be a lot of Belichick's old system in it, but it is clear that Belichick is going to have far more attack defensive plays this year than maybe any year and that requires man coverage.

No, its really not clear.
If you accept that the preseason tells us what he will do in the regualr season then what is 'clear' is that he will play a 43 which will typically 2 gap on the strong side and one gap on the weak. That we will blitz either more or less than we did last year and years past. That we will continue to play pretty much the same coverages in the secondary correspoinding to whether we blitz or do not, and that the nickel and dime packages will resemble the same thing we have always done.

How much of an aggressive attacking defense did we play vs Detroit and the Giants?

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick isn't trying to improve against the run (other than always trying to improve in all phases). He is trying to improve against the pass. The Pats were good against the run last year. It was third down defense where the Pats got killed last year and that is mostly passing. He wants a more of an attack style defense that will pressure the QB.

Lowery is actually easier to move because he is playing for the veteran minimum. The conditional pick may not even be compensated. Eventhough Meriweather's base is low, his escalators bring it close to $3 milllion. Many teams might rather just try to get him for the veteran minimum. I don't know what the escalators are, but if they are easy to get; another team might not want to pay him that.

There is no doubt at all that Meriwhether could have been traded. His contract was 1.6mill, thats peanuts for a starter.
IMO, something happened internally. BB reached this decision sometime this week, probably mostly earlier in the week, and the final straw came since Thursday. (My WAG is the Meriwhether reacted poorly to playing with the scrubs) BB didn't have time to complete a deal and for some reason wanted him out of here.
We will be cutting a player or 2 in the next few days to sign a G and TE, meaning we have 2 guys on the rosters who are dead men walking. Meriwhether could have filled that role while a trade was worked out.
I think something happened that made BB feel he needed this guy off his team more than he needed something for him.
I personally think issues are going to surface down the road, because there isn't logic in the sequence of events, and thats not typical BB.

 

[JetFan1]

Belichick isn't trying to improve against the run (other than always trying to improve in all phases). He is trying to improve against the pass. The Pats were good against the run last year. It was third down defense where the Pats got killed last year and that is mostly passing. He wants a more of an attack style defense that will pressure the QB.

Lowery is actually easier to move because he is playing for the veteran minimum. The conditional pick may not even be compensated. Eventhough Meriweather's base is low, his escalators bring it close to $3 milllion. Many teams might rather just try to get him for the veteran minimum. I don't know what the escalators are, but if they are easy to get; another team might not want to pay him that.

Lowery wasn't making vet minimum, he was playing on his rookie contract, same with Meriweather. Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: (Edit: debunked) Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

That always word doesn't cut it for me this year.

Why? Its the way he has (almost) always played his safeties. What would make that change?
It as nothing to do with scheme or game plan, its a philosophy that he wants his players (its not just safeties) to be able to play both strong and weak, because motion or shifting is going to create it anyway.
If you play strong and weak safeties, what do you do against 3 wides?
Theoretically your strong safety is a better run supporter and your FS is better in coverage. Are you going to play your SS on the 2 Wr side? What happens when the slot goes in motion? Are you flipping them?
What about 4 wides, 2 TE?
Every safety ends up being SS or FS at times. BB has always felt it was best to have them capable of doing either interchangably.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

I pray that someday BB writes a tell-all or tell-most book that clues us in to his thinking about these various issues.

I'd pay a lot of money for it.

 

[Joker]

Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety.

yeah...of course you CAN'T give Rex Ryan ENOUGH credit can you..and there is not one area of "instability" on the mighty Jets...and of course, the direct question....who is the better QB , Tom Brady or Mark Sanchez? Go ahead...print your answer...

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Merriweather a NY Jet - Soon to be Champs

You know, I'm not so certain they didn't keep a 4th safety. The roster makes a lot more sense -- and a decision to keep Meriweather has tougher consequences -- if you move Dowling from the overstuffed CB column to the S column.

Yes, I commented on that before.
Look back to 2003, and compare Eugene Wilson to Ras-I Dowling.
The similarities are eery.

 

[JetFan1]

Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety.

yeah...of course you CAN'T give Rex Ryan ENOUGH credit can you..and there is not one area of "instability" on the mighty Jets...and of course, the direct question....who is the better QB , Tom Brady or Mark Sanchez? Go ahead...print your answer...

Try to stay on topic and not derail the thread, this thread is about the decision of releasing Meriweather.

You can post your Jet hating diatribes over in the "Jets suck" thread.

 

[Ring 6]

Lowery wasn't making vet minimum, he was playing on his rookie contract, same with Meriweather. Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety.

He moved him because he wanted the other safeties on the field. Keeping the players that give you the best chance to win doesnt come back to haunt you. Name value doesnt win football games making plays does.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Lowery wasn't making vet minimum, he was playing on his rookie contract, same with Meriweather. Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety

Most of his moves that leave us scratching our heads end up working just fine, we just have no idea whats going on down on the field and behind closed doors in his eyes, Im pretty sure he wouldnt make a move without a plan in place.

 

[Joker]

still won't answer the simple question, eh?

figures...you better pay some attention to what the Patriots are playing the first few games...you know, find that elusive clue?...and I am on topic...YOU state the Meriweather decision is "real bad!@!!!!" and then back it up with total, completely ignorant BULL ending in "instability!!!!!" Obviously YOU see "instability" so I'm guessing YOU are an expert...it then follows that YOU, a Jet fan, would know all "instabilities!!!!" on the Jets...I asked you to elucidate...you refused. I once again asked you to make a clear statement vis a vis the starting QB position on both teams...a simple "who is a better player?"...you again refuse...preferring to spin your way out of ANY actual statement one way or the other...why so reticent to go on the record HERE on a Patriots board???

 

[JMarr]

Im pretty sure he wouldnt make a move without a plan in place.

He's done it before and, on the surface, this appears to be more of a "statement move." Not second-guessing him though. As another poster said, the man definitely knows what he wants out of a football player, and raw talent isn't at the top of the list.

Of course I have no way of knowing whether he has someone like Darren Sharper already in place to join the 53.

 

[JetFan1]

still won't answer the simple question, eh?

figures...you better pay some attention to what the Patriots are playing the first few games...you know, find that elusive clue?...and I am on topic...YOU state the Meriweather decision is "real bad!@!!!!" and then back it up with total, completely ignorant BULL ending in "instability!!!!!" Obviously YOU see "instability" so I'm guessing YOU are an expert...it then follows that YOU, a Jet fan, would know all "instabilities!!!!" on the Jets...I asked you to elucidate...you refused. I once again asked you to make a clear statement vis a vis the starting QB position on both teams...a simple "who is a better player?"...you again refuse...preferring to spin your way out of ANY actual statement one way or the other...why so reticent to go on the record HERE on a Patriots board???

Just an observation, sorry if anybody questioning the great Patriots bothers you so much.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Lowery wasn't making vet minimum, he was playing on his rookie contract, same with Meriweather. Once again, you're giving Belichick too much credit, he wanted to move him, something happened, and the move could come back to haunt him with the instability and lack of established players the Pats have right now at safety.

This time yesterday, I believed that Meriweather was a starter-caliber safety on this team. I thought Belichick agreed with me, hence cutting Sanders, but apparently I was wrong. We've seen hardly anything of the young guys, though, and Belichick watches them everyday, plus most of us have enough faith in Belichick's judgment to trust that he knows what he's doing. He's made mistakes, but he's right more often than he's wrong. If he thinks we're better off with Barrett and/or Brown, then I'm content to wait and see without panicking.

I hope this turns out less like trading Seymour turned out, and more like cutting Adalius did. Whereas I didn't like the Seymour trade from the get-go, and I was 100% on board with cutting AD from the get-go, I'm somewhere in between on this move. I'm not outright happy to see Meriweather go, but I don't think he's irreplaceable like Seymour is, by a long shot. His production definitely can be replaced and even surpassed. Maybe by Barrett, maybe by some veteran that they sign to replace Meriweather... who knows.