Patriots are becoming too arrogant

[DaBruinz]

We appear to have a problem beating Denver no matter how good the team is. It seems to be a matchup issue because other good teams seem to have no trouble beating the Broncos - especially the Colts. It's worth noting that the three times we won the SB, we never had to face Denver in the playoffs and the one time we barely beat them in the regular season, they had Danny Kanell at QB and we needed an intentional safety to pull it out.

Football is weird. The Steelers and Colts have a lot of trouble beating us, yet neither team has difficulty beating Denver like we do.

We seem to call Denver overrated every time they beat us, but they have beaten us regularly for 40 years.

Yes, we have a 15-25 receord against Denver and Brady is like 1-5 against Denver. However, the last 2 times we played Denver, this team wasn't healthy. This last time, Dillon didn't play much of the 2nd half. The Patriots didn't us screens or slants and they couldn't really play to their strengths. Not to mention the execution by Brady was horrible and the receivers were only slightly better.

Anyways, that is off topic. The topic of this thread was the supposed arrogance of the Patriots for not re-signing Branch, Vinatieri and for signing Caldwell.

The reality is that the Pats made 3 different attempts to resign Branch and BRANCH turned them down flat every time.

The reality is that the Pats couldn't franchise Vinatieri because it would have been the 3rd time they had franchised him and he would have had to have been paid as a QB.

Caldwell has shown that all he does is get 1st downs. But he's also been used as a decoy to open up the field for the other receivers, including Watson.

The Pats FO has not shown arrogance. They have shown they have a proven plan and that they won't deviate from it for anyone. They will treat their top players equally and they will reward you for excellent play, but they won't OVERPAY for you. And they have shown that with the contracts for Seymour, Brady, Light, Koppen, and even Dillon.

 

[Pats726]

Yes, we have a 15-25 receord against Denver and Brady is like 1-5 against Denver. However, the last 2 times we played Denver, this team wasn't healthy. This last time, Dillon didn't play much of the 2nd half. The Patriots didn't us screens or slants and they couldn't really play to their strengths. Not to mention the execution by Brady was horrible and the receivers were only slightly better.

Anyways, that is off topic. The topic of this thread was the supposed arrogance of the Patriots for not re-signing Branch, Vinatieri and for signing Caldwell.

The reality is that the Pats made 3 different attempts to resign Branch and BRANCH turned them down flat every time.

The reality is that the Pats couldn't franchise Vinatieri because it would have been the 3rd time they had franchised him and he would have had to have been paid as a QB.

Caldwell has shown that all he does is get 1st downs. But he's also been used as a decoy to open up the field for the other receivers, including Watson.

The Pats FO has not shown arrogance. They have shown they have a proven plan and that they won't deviate from it for anyone. They will treat their top players equally and they will reward you for excellent play, but they won't OVERPAY for you. And they have shown that with the contracts for Seymour, Brady, Light, Koppen, and even Dillon.

ALl great poiints...I don't see the arrogance at all..and it's not explained..but it sounds so good..to many..so why not go with it even though it is hollow and untrue.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

How is Caldwell a bust? You know what? Nevern mind. Don't bother answering because you've been proven wrong in this thread every time you've opened your trap.

As for the "type of guy" I am, you don't have a clue on that either since I know that French Fries aren't a french food.

The only ARROGANCE being shown here is by YOU, Jacky Roberts. But that has been your way since you decided to start posting here on Patsfans.com.

Caldwell is Donald Hayes Part II. How anyone can feel confident about this guy is mind-boggling. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow (also not French food), but I fear you are the one who is wrong.

By the way, Kudos to you for being a Bruins fan. I've never actually had interaction with one, so this is an education for both of us.

 

[Kingasaurus]

Yes, we have a 15-25 receord against Denver and Brady is like 1-5 against Denver. However, the last 2 times we played Denver, this team wasn't healthy. This last time, Dillon didn't play much of the 2nd half. The Patriots didn't us screens or slants and they couldn't really play to their strengths. Not to mention the execution by Brady was horrible and the receivers were only slightly better.

Since the beginning of the Super Bowl the record is 6-21 against Denver, which is the worst against any team in the Pats' history. The point is there always seems to be an excuse why we don't beat them. I'm running out of excuses. I'm only arguing the point because I disagree with Jacky on everything else. I just have zero confidence if we have to face the Broncos in the playoffs. I can easily conceive us winning another championship if we can simply avoid playing them. There's a reason we're snakebit, and having Tom Brady and the recent best team in football doesn't change the equation - that franchise gives us fits no matter what.

 

[DaBruinz]

Caldwell is Donald Hayes Part II. How anyone can feel confident about this guy is mind-boggling. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow (also not French food), but I fear you are the one who is wrong.

By the way, Kudos to you for being a Bruins fan. I've never actually had interaction with one, so this is an education for both of us.

Caldwell is Donald Hayes part II? You obviously have no clue as to what you are talking about. But thank you for proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[shmessy]

Caldwell is Donald Hayes Part II. How anyone can feel confident about this guy is mind-boggling. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow (also not French food), but I fear you are the one who is wrong.

By the way, Kudos to you for being a Bruins fan. I've never actually had interaction with one, so this is an education for both of us.

You lose all credibility with your Reche Caldwell obsession. He's shown to be a decent 3-4 WR. Comparing him to Donald Hayes is just assinine.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Since the beginning of the Super Bowl the record is 6-21 against Denver, which is the worst against any team in the Pats' history. The point is there always seems to be an excuse why we don't beat them. I'm running out of excuses. I'm only arguing the point because I disagree with Jacky on everything else. I just have zero confidence if we have to face the Broncos in the playoffs. I can easily conceive us winning another championship if we can simply avoid playing them. There's a reason we're snakebit, and having Tom Brady and the recent best team in football doesn't change the equation - that franchise gives us fits no matter what.

Why don't you take the opposite approach and think that maybe the Pats will beat Denver down the road if needed because the chances of one team getting revenge on another increases statistically every time they play. Further, the Broncos will be more overconfident than ever, and the Pats will be more serious than ever, if they meet again. Also, since we have had Brady at Q.B., we have gotten revenge in the playoffs on teams that punked us in the regular season, when we were healthy and firing on all cylinders. That means a healthy Dillon, and the WRs getting on the same page as Brady.

The way fate seems to play out with this team recently, it wouldn't surprise me if we face Denver in Foxboro during the coldest, nastiest snowstorm in 100 years, and win 9-7, in a foot of snow on the field and 25 m.p.h. winds. Bruschi would get the safety to win the game.

 

[jaychamp]

I personally think this is the best overall and deepest team we've ever had. The Offense will take time to gel and they have been, slowly but surely. To think we don't have a shot at the SB this year is beyond ignorant. We're going through a mini-transition and we're 4-1 after the toughest stretch in our schedule. The horror!!

 

[captain stone]

They are better on the O-line, D-Line, TE, DB and RB. I would say they are even possibly better at starting LB but not so sure about depth. WR is a work in progress and overall there is more natural talent at WR than what we had in 2004.


If WR is our biggest problem we will be damn good.

The Patriots are NOT better at DB, nor at starting LB. Their back 8 are either too old, too slow, or too fragile. Not exactly a recipe for success, esp. if they continue to have problems on 3rd-down stops.

 

[amazinPats]

I call 'fan on fan' arrogance here!!

We're all part of the New England Patriots. We're the 12th man. We're absolutely vital to the franchise. They wouldn't trade us for 15 1st round picks! We can say 'we' if we want to, we buy the right through advertising dollars, Jersey sales, Game tickets, etc etc etc.

I cheer when the Pats are happy, I cry when they cry (Denver last season).

'We' are all Patriots.

Lighten up!

Well said! All serious fans have the right to use "we" and "us!"

 

[mgteich]

You think Denver doesn't play well in the snow? You think a defensive struggle in the snow favors the patriots? You think that because we are pi$$ed that they beat us so often, then we are MORE likely to win the next game? We saud that every year against Miami. They won 15 in a row until Eason led the team to victory.

I disagree with all those statements. Your use of the word "statistically" is somehat strange. A team that beats you 3/4 of the time year in and year out should have 75% chance of winning, a 1-3 favorite.

We can beat Denver. However, there is no reason to want to play them.

Why don't you take the opposite approach and think that maybe the Pats will beat Denver down the road if needed because the chances of one team getting revenge on another increases statistically every time they play. Further, the Broncos will be more overconfident than ever, and the Pats will be more serious than ever, if they meet again. Also, since we have had Brady at Q.B., we have gotten revenge in the playoffs on teams that punked us in the regular season, when we were healthy and firing on all cylinders. That means a healthy Dillon, and the WRs getting on the same page as Brady.

The way fate seems to play out with this team recently, it wouldn't surprise me if we face Denver in Foxboro during the coldest, nastiest snowstorm in 100 years, and win 9-7, in a foot of snow on the field and 25 m.p.h. winds. Bruschi would get the safety to win the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe it is a statistical anomoly, but, to my knowledge, the Belichick coached Patriots have not lost to the same team twice in a given year since 2000 when they lost both games to Miami.

Since then, it hasn't happened.

Granted, there is a first time for everything, but Belichick tends to be REALLY good the second time around against a team.

 

[shmessy]

Maybe it is a statistical anomoly, but, to my knowledge, the Belichick coached Patriots have not lost to the same team twice in a given year since 2000 when they lost both games to Miami.

Since then, it hasn't happened.

Granted, there is a first time for everything, but Belichick tends to be REALLY good the second time around against a team.

Ummm.....it happened last year, Dabruinz.......

 

[Brownfan80]

Ummm.....it happened last year, Dabruinz.......

Yeah, I was so confident going into that Denver playoff game that I was truly shocked and saddened by the way the game unfolded (in addition to being ultra-angry at the officiating, which was HORRID).

That was the first time in years that I'd cried over a football game. I was drunk at the time, so it wasn't as sissy as it sounds.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

This "we can win with anyone on our roster" thing is getting thin.

That's what a team with good coaches does...

 

[Jacky Roberts]

You lose all credibility with your Reche Caldwell obsession. He's shown to be a decent 3-4 WR. Comparing him to Donald Hayes is just assinine.

Agree to disagree, Caldwell sucks.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Maybe it is a statistical anomoly, but, to my knowledge, the Belichick coached Patriots have not lost to the same team twice in a given year since 2000 when they lost both games to Miami.

Since then, it hasn't happened.

Granted, there is a first time for everything, but Belichick tends to be REALLY good the second time around against a team.

I must have blocked out both Denver losses last year.

ps- Yay Bruins!

 

[sieglo]

I must have blocked out both Denver losses last year.

ps- Yay Bruins!

The second game plan against Denver was fine. It was the horrible execution and loathesome officiating that killed the Pats.

 

[Kingasaurus]

The second game plan against Denver was fine. It was the horrible execution and loathesome officiating that killed the Pats.

Fine, but it's always something. Let's just say I'll be a lot happier if Indy plays Denver in the playoffs and dispatches them for us. I'm in absolutely no hurry to play that team again. I know the attitude of the next-time-it'll-be-different crowd, but it's a bad matchup for the Patriots no matter how you slice it.

And saying the mounting losses increase the chances we'll beat them next time is a misunderstanding of statistics and probability.

 

[mgcolby]

The Patriots are NOT better at DB, nor at starting LB. Their back 8 are either too old, too slow, or too fragile. Not exactly a recipe for success, esp. if they continue to have problems on 3rd-down stops.

Can you explain further?

Willie vs Colvin - Winner Colvin
Seau vs Johnson - Even in my opinion. TJ was a run stuffing machine and so far, Seau hasn't dissapointed.
Bruschi - still the same
Vrabel - still the same

So how are we any better or worse at starting LB?

DB starters in SB 39

Gay vs Hobbs - winner Hobbs
Samuels - still here
Wilson - still here
Rodney - still here

Key Reserves '04: Poteat, T. Brown, Earthwind Moreland

Key Reserves '06: Hawkins, C. Scott and Sanders

I can see what you are talking about.