Pat Chung's clean hit on Henne

[NE39]

At any rate, it will be cleared up when Mike Reiss does his penalty analysis. He will note who got called. He should have it up in the next day or so.

 

[drew4008]

I don't know how the actual penalty was recorded (Chung vs. Burgess), but I think that it was a justifiable penalty on Chung.

Burgess clearly made head to head contact with Henne after the hit by Chung but he was driven into him by Vernon Carey. I don't believe that that would be a penalty.

Chung's hit may have been technically legal, but it was way too close to being a blow to the head or spearing to not be called.

TB gets that call 10 times out of 10. Henne should get it too. A good hit, but a dumb one.

What he said.

 

[Patspsycho]

At any rate, it will be cleared up when Mike Reiss does his penalty analysis. He will note who got called. He should have it up in the next day or so.

Look at it from :18 to :19 from the EZ camera. He never takes his eyes off the QB. You don't do that as a football player. No coach would preach taking your eyes off the player you are trying to tackle.

 

[drew4008]

No coach would preach taking your eyes off the player you are trying to tackle.

No coach preaches false starts either... they still happen.

 

[NE39]

Look at it from :18 to :19 from the EZ camera. He never takes his eyes off the QB. You don't do that as a football player. No coach would preach taking your eyes off the player you are trying to tackle.

Actually, that is the key camera angle, because it is behind the QB. That is the same point of view as the ref has, and it looks like he drops his head and launches himself right before the hit. That is probably the key the ref picked up on to call the flag.

Remember, this is called at full speed. I think the ref saw him lower his head a little and launch himself, so he threw the flag. If you analyze it in slow-motion you can say argue one way or the other, but watching it I can understand why it was called. I don't think it was a bad call.

Kind of moot, anyway, given there was another penalty and the result would have been no different (other than a few yards).

 

[jays52]

No coach preaches false starts either... they still happen.

The difference is that Chung never took his eyes off of Henne. This really is a fact immune to debate. Chung never removed his eyes from the QB. He came in balls out and executed a perfect form tackle. He got flagged because he brought so much inertia through the hit. Nice stick, but it got flagged.

Also, it should be noted that he couldn't have pulled back on that. When the QB hits his hitch step and you are a stride an a half away from contact, you are committed. In your mind, you know the QB is going to get rid of the ball (best case, you screw up the ball if he steps into you), and try to deliver the best hit you can. Then, you get up and look nervously for a flag. Nothing Chung could have done in that situation other than what he executed. Good hit, tough call, move on.

 

[NE39]

The difference is that Chung never took his eyes off of Henne. This really is a fact immune to debate.

His head was not up, he dropped his eyes at about :18 of the video. He didn't really "take his eyes off" him, but he dropped his eye level from Henne's shoulders to his lower body and launched himself. You can see it from behind the QB in the video. That view is why he got called, IMO. If he ran through the player with his head up instead of launching himself he would not have been called.

 

[Synovia]

.HOWEVER, if u look at the last viewpoint from the clip, u can see that chung goes on the side, to the shoulder, and when burgress hits henne his head goes forward quite a bit

I've watched that angle like 15 times, and the helmet is clearly on the chin.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I've watched that angle like 15 times, and the helmet is clearly on the chin.

I'm going with the first viewpoint of the clip. Less than 1/2 of Chung's helmet is visible and Henne's head is still upright. That would be impossible if he hit him on the chin. Also Henne's head should go to the right as Chung's helmet is to the left shoulder ... it does not.

 

[Synovia]

I'm going with the first viewpoint of the clip. Less than 1/2 of Chung's helmet is visible and Henne's head is still upright. That would be impossible if he hit him on the chin.

No it wouldnt. He hits chest and then slides up into the chin.

 

[efin98]

No matter how much it is overanalysed it was a penalty on Chung.

It was a clean hit but he was an inch too high and Henne snapped just enough to make it look like it was a hit to the helmet. It was also too damn fast for anyone anywhere in that stadium to see whatever space may or may not be between the helmets- it was close enough to justify the flag.

If he gets a fine this week we can whine about that, but this was a judgment call and it was more than justified in getting called.

 

[patfanken]

You know NE39, I admire your persistence, BUT you are the reason why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable. Based on this, if YOU told me it was dark at 9pm. I would have to check the window to make sure. Chung DID NOT LAUNCH himself, he drove through the man....like he's supposed to. He DID NOT hit him with the crown of his helmet. He hit him with his facemask. These are apparently clear, yet you insist for several pages of posts that he did BOTH, hit him with the crown of his helmet, and "launched".

I don't understand it...probably never will, but you are 100% wrong.

BTW- according to you, the refs didn't know the flag was on, but Dan freakin Dierdorf does?????

 

[Patspsycho]

You can see that Henne's helmet is still upright when Chung makes full contact.

So much for the helmet to helmet contact theory. File under grassy knoll.

 

[Metaphors]

My $0.02...

- Perfect form tackle by Chung. He made contact with his head up right on the 7.

- On the shot at time :12, Chung's helmet is about even with the sideline. Advance one frame (a fraction of a second) and Chung's helmet is above the sideline and Henne's head is whipped back. I don't see how anyone can conclude that Chung's helmet didn't connect with Henne's facemask.

- The transition upward of Chung's helmet is too abrupt to be intentional (launching) and his helmet continues horizontal after the initial upward motion. Henne weighs about 20 lbs. more than Chung. Run into a tackling dummy at full speed and see what happens to your head just after the moment of contact. You guessed it. It follows the path of least resistance in the direction of momentum...straight up.

- From Henne's perspective, his chest suddenly accelerates backwards and his neck acts as a point of rotation. So at the same time physics is causing Chung's helmet to suddenly shoot up, Henne's head is suddenly rotating forward. You can see the result. For those of you suggesting that Henne's head jolted backwards as a result of a collision to his chest, I thank God you didn't design the air bags for my car.

So my judgement is a great play by Chung with a little bad luck in how the collision turned out. Definitely a penalty though the abrupt movement makes it look worst than it was. Considering that and the fact that there really wasn't any effective way for Chung to alter the outcome, anything more than a minimal fine would seem excessive. I guess he could have moved slower, but it is called a pass rush, isn't it?

 

[IcyPatriot]

You can see that Henne's helmet is still upright when Chung makes full contact.

So much for that helmet contact theory. File under grassy knoll.

:youtheman:... That's the shot I was describing ... thanks.

 

[Metaphors]

You can see that Henne's helmet is still upright when Chung makes full contact.

So much for the helmet to helmet contact theory. File under grassy knoll.

Advance that picture one more frame from the same camera perspective and you will notice Chung's helmet higher. As I said in my previous post, that is to be expected when you run into a stationary object at a full sprint.

You would also notice that Chung's body in general does not go upward but continues horizontal. Not much evidence of launching that I can see.

Since you are claiming no contact with Henne's helmet, what force caused his head to snap back suddenly? It wouldn't do that naturally with a sudden impact to his chest.

 

[Patspsycho]

Advance that picture one more frame from the same camera perspective and you will notice Chung's helmet higher. As I said in my previous post, that is to be expected when you run into a stationary object at a full sprint.

You would also notice that Chung's body in general does not go upward but continues horizontal. Not much evidence of launching that I can see.

Since you are claiming no contact with Henne's helmet, what force caused his head to snap back suddenly? It wouldn't do that naturally with a sudden impact to his chest.

The force from Chung's hit caused Henne's facemask to dip down and hit Chung's helmet and the whiplash is from this..

However prior to this, Chung's helmet is immobile, in Henne's chest, which means he cannot be called for helmet to helmet.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Since you are claiming no contact with Henne's helmet, what force caused his head to snap back suddenly?

1. The usually unnoticed instinct of any sufficiently evolved animal to separate its own head from its body rather than face PAT CHUNG

2. The pure shock wave of the overpressure caused by a blitzing PAT CHUNG

3. When PAT CHUNG was running toward Henne the earth span faster, causing Henne's lower body then chest, then only finally his head (the top part) to spin forward... the last footstep caused Henne's body to lurch forward without the head following because, well, PAT CHUNG

I cannot believe this entire thread could go this far without these aspects at least explored.

 

[GrogansArmy]

You can see that Henne's helmet is still upright when Chung makes full contact.

So much for the helmet to helmet contact theory. File under grassy knoll.

Sorry off topic a little bit here, but can u explain how u got the screen shot and posted it?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

When was the last time we talked about a hard hit like this? Penalty or not, I was glad someone on this defense is giving opposing QB's something to think about. In the future, this will cause QB's to mess their throws up because they will be thinking about getting smacked around by the Pats blitzing safeties.