NFL News OT: Scheffler to Lions, Ernie Sims to Eagles

[BadMoFo]

This is the part where we say we prefer Olsen. Even though last week we said we preferred Scheffler.

 

[signbabybrady]

:ditto: Ding...ding...ding. If some people would just look at the big picture this board would be a much better place than it already is.

The big picture on this board is actually a mirror that gets held up next to anyone that is released or traded.

Because the team has a few holes no one can understand why they wouldn't pick up anyone and everyone in said positions with a hole (regardless of how big the hole is). You know the people who see a hole at back up WR and can't understand why we wouldn't get Boldin to fill it despite him being a clear starter.

 

[JackBauer]

This is the part where we say we prefer Olsen. Even though last week we said we preferred Scheffler.

Oh? Who is "we"?

There isn't a time where I would have preferred Scheffler over Olsen.

Though to make a trade for Olsen worthwhile, there'd have to be a willingness to integrate the TE more heavily into the passing game.

 

[Deus Irae]

The big picture on this board is actually a mirror that gets held up next to anyone that is released or traded.

Because the team has a few holes no one can understand why they wouldn't pick up anyone and everyone in said positions with a hole (regardless of how big the hole is). You know the people who see a hole at back up WR and can't understand why we wouldn't get Boldin to fill it despite him being a clear starter.

The WR hole is not at a backup position, so your post really doesn't make sense.

 

[signbabybrady]

The WR hole is not at a backup position, so your post really doesn't make sense.

So Moss and Welker are not considered starters anymore?

you can argue about his injury until you are blue in the face but he is still on this roster and I would have been shocked to see them replace his reps with the idea we have no idea how long he will be hurt. Bringing in a rookie sure but bringing in say a Boldin and pushing Welker down the depth would have been hard for this team to pull off.

 

[Christopher Patriot]

I wouldn't want any player let alone a tight end who refuses to block, who didn't get along with the way Mcdaniels does things. I'm sure thats close to the way BB does things. if BB was interested in Ernie Sims it was a smokescreen before the draft. BB has shown if there is a guy he's in love with, Warren he will move up to take them. The only player i'm interested in bringing in is Olsen or a Outside linebacker via trade. Thomas Howard, Osi may be able to make the transition but I wouldn't part with more than a 4th with or without Thomas to find out.

 

[BadMoFo]

Oh? Who is "we"?

There isn't a time where I would have preferred Scheffler over Olsen.

Though to make a trade for Olsen worthwhile, there'd have to be a willingness to integrate the TE more heavily into the passing game.

Of course not.

 

[JackBauer]

Of course not.

Perhaps you can point to some previous posts to that effect?

I'm not sure who here would have preferred Scheffler to Olsen, given that neither can block and Olsen is a markedly better receiver. But you seem confident that there are some who were, so perhaps you can point out the specific posts in which said statements were made? It really shouldn't be that difficult.

Unless, of course, you were making another snide rhetorical point with no basis in reality, as is your wont.

 

[WhiZa]

Simms should look really good on that team. Schfelter will have a down year, and Denver will have a bunch of rookies.

 

[Deus Irae]

So Moss and Welker are not considered starters anymore?

you can argue about his injury until you are blue in the face but he is still on this roster and I would have been shocked to see them replace his reps with the idea we have no idea how long he will be hurt. Bringing in a rookie sure but bringing in say a Boldin and pushing Welker down the depth would have been hard for this team to pull off.

Welker lines up in the slot. Moss is one outside receiver. The other starting receiver lines up at the other outside spot.

The hole is the starter at the WR3 spot. That's the Stallworth/Gaffney position, and that was 82 catches combined in 2007, while Welker had 112 that same season. Welker doesn't get pushed down by that WR3.

 

[signbabybrady]

Welker lines up in the slot. Moss is one outside receiver. The other starting receiver lines up at the other outside spot.

The hole is the starter at the WR3 spot. That's the Stallworth/Gaffney position, and that was 82 catches combined in 2007, while Welker had 112 that same season. Welker doesn't get pushed down by that WR3.

I don't think it is fair to say that WR3 spot produced 82 catches as some of those catches would have come from the WR4 spot which was occupied by Gaffney and Stallworth....but even still we are talking about WR3 and not one of the 2 starters.

Simple question who were usually the WR on the field the past few season when there were only 2 WR lined up?

 

[jmt57]

I don't think it is fair to say that WR3 spot produced 82 catches as some of those catches would have come from the WR4 spot which was occupied by Gaffney and Stallworth....but even still we are talking about WR3 and not one of the 2 starters.

Simple question who were usually the WR on the field the past few season when there were only 2 WR lined up?

I'd still think of that split end being a starter, from Gaffney to Galloway over recent seasons. I'm thinking the most common formation has been 1RB, 1TE and 3WR the past few years. So you have Moss on one side, Welker/Edelman in the slot, and a starting position open for Tate or some new addition TBA later.

 

[Deus Irae]

Simple question who were usually the WR on the field the past few season when there were only 2 WR lined up?

Who cares? It's a 3 WR base system. Here's an example, from game 1 last season:

A look at the snaps played by Patriots offensive skill position players in Monday's 25-24 victory over the Bills, as charted in the press box:

QB Tom Brady -- 81 of 81 snaps
WR Randy Moss -- 80 of 81
TE Benjamin Watson -- 65 of 81
WR Wes Welker -- 62 of 81
WR Joey Galloway -- 60 of 81
TE Chris Baker -- 46 of 81
RB Kevin Faulk -- 42 of 81
RB Laurence Maroney -- 23 of 81
RB Fred Taylor -- 16 of 81
RB/FB Sammy Morris -- 7 of 81
OL/TE Matt Light (declared as eligible) -- 7 of 81
WR Sam Aiken -- 1 of 81
OL/TE Nick Kaczur (declared as eligible) -- 1 of 81

Mike Reiss' blog - Moss plays 80 of 81 offensive snaps - ESPN Boston

When the team had a legit WR3 (or thought they did), he got essentially as many snaps as Welker did.


Here's the breakdown from week 2, when Welker was out:

A look at the snaps played by offensive skill position players in the Patriots' 16-9 loss to the Patriots:

QB Tom Brady -- 77 of 77 snaps

WR Randy Moss -- 77 of 77

WR Joey Galloway -- 76 of 77

WR Julian Edelman -- 76 of 77

TE Benjamin Watson -- 47 of 77

TE Chris Baker -- 31 of 77

RB Kevin Faulk -- 24 of 77

RB Fred Taylor -- 24 of 77

RB Laurence Maroney -- 18 of 77

RB Sammy Morris -- 12 of 77

(Note: The Patriots had 67 official snaps. Ten penalties were included to account for the total of 77 snaps.)

So, two weeks of playing, and Galloway at the WR3 spot played 137 of 158 snaps

 

[patsfan-1982]

the eagles get the best of this deal to get a LB that averaged 120 tackles a year befor last year. for a 5th is pretty good.



denver pretty much gets noting for a pass catching TE witch tells me how high they place a receiving TE in this system.

 

[signbabybrady]

Who cares? It's a 3 WR base system. Here's an example, from game 1 last season:



Mike Reiss' blog - Moss plays 80 of 81 offensive snaps - ESPN Boston

When the team had a legit WR3 (or thought they did), he got essentially as many snaps as Welker did.


Here's the breakdown from week 2, when Welker was out:




So, two weeks of playing, and Galloway at the WR3 spot played 137 of 158 snaps

Bottom line is that WR3 with talent like Gafney, Stallworth, and what we hoped to get out of Galloway in no way matches the biatching done for a stud WR like Boldin or the like.

Would you put Gaffney, Stallworth, and what we hoped to get out of Galloway more on par talentwise with Anquan Boldin or Julian Edelman? Keep in mind I am not talking about who fits Split end better just production/talent.


OK fine I will give you that WR3 might be snapwise closer to a starter the last few years. But we are kinda arguing semantics anyway as I was using WR as an example of how people over hype the holes so if you say 3 WR are staters than there is less of a need for TE2 which has a lot of people up in arms too.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bottom line is that WR3 with talent like Gafney, Stallworth, and what we hoped to get out of Galloway in no way matches the biatching done for a stud WR like Boldin or the like.

Would you put Gaffney, Stallworth, and what we hoped to get out of Galloway more on par talentwise with Anquan Boldin or Julian Edelman? Keep in mind I am not talking about who fits Split end better just production/talent.


OK fine I will give you that WR3 might be snapwise closer to a starter the last few years. But we are kinda arguing semantics anyway as I was using WR as an example of how people over hype the holes so if you say 3 WR are staters than there is less of a need for TE2 which has a lot of people up in arms too.

You were claiming there's not a hole at starting wide receiver. That's not the case, and it's not just a semantics argument. Furthermore, your argument about Boldin, which boils down to saying that the team shouldn't go after high talent receivers because they've got Moss and Welker, makes no sense. Again, Stallworth/Gaffney totaled 80+ receptions. Why wouldn't you look for a quality player at that position?

As for TE2, the team carries 2-3 tight ends on the roster historically, uses multiple formations, (look at those numbers again and you'll find that Baker took 77 of 158 snaps, which is just about half the snaps) and is currently carrying only the bloated carcass of Alge Crumpler for all of its tight end needs. Naturally that position is going to be looked at by the fans, as a result.

Lastly, as for over hyping the holes, come on. Most people watching the Patriots last season could see the holes, and many of them are major problems.

 

[GoWhalers]

the eagles get the best of this deal to get a LB that averaged 120 tackles a year befor last year. for a 5th is pretty good.



denver pretty much gets noting for a pass catching TE witch tells me how high they place a receiving TE in this system.

To be fair -- the Patriots didn't even have a 5th round pick to offer.

The Eagles had the 6th pick in the 5th round, near the beginning.

The nearest Patriots picks were the 21st in the 4th round, or the 21st in the 6th round.

To compete with the Eagles offer, the Pats would have had to offer a draft choice 18 picks higher than the Eagles, or create a package involving multiple later round picks or players. Throw in the fact that the Eagles/Lions are in the NFC versus the Pats in the AFC and it makes it harder to compete.

 

[patsfan-1982]

To be fair -- the Patriots didn't even have a 5th round pick to offer.

The Eagles had the 6th pick in the 5th round, near the beginning.

The nearest Patriots picks were the 21st in the 4th round, or the 21st in the 6th round.

To compete with the Eagles offer, the Pats would have had to offer a draft choice 18 picks higher than the Eagles, or create a package involving multiple later round picks or players. Throw in the fact that the Eagles/Lions are in the NFC versus the Pats in the AFC and it makes it harder to compete.

i never said i wanted him. i just said it was a good deal for the eagels sims is 230lbs to small to play in the 3-4


i said this system in reference. to the broncos. who run the same offensive. system as the pats i was saying that a pass catching TE is not very high on the list. of play makers need it to run the system.

 

[GoWhalers]

i never said i wanted him. i just said it was a good deal for the eagels sims is 230lbs to small to play in the 3-4


i said this system in reference. to the broncos. who run the same offensive. system as the pats i was saying that a pass catching TE is not very high on the list. of play makers need it to run the system.

OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the fact that Patriots appeared unwilling to trade as little as "nothing" for a pass-catching tight end, due to the low value placed on that type of player in Foxboro.

 

[Rob0729]

the eagles get the best of this deal to get a LB that averaged 120 tackles a year befor last year. for a 5th is pretty good.



denver pretty much gets noting for a pass catching TE witch tells me how high they place a receiving TE in this system.

You do realize that Paris Lenon has 121 tackles in 2008 and 118 tackles in 2007 for the Lions. He didn't even make the final 53 man roster for the Patriots last year. Amassing tackles for the Lions apparently isn't much of an accomplishment since their offense keeps their defense on the field all game and the their defense cannot stop any drives.