OT: Randy Moss says he is the GOAT WR

[sb1]

Rice 1200+ yards for the Raiders at age 40. That’s not like Brady in his 40s but still really impressive. Rice and Tim Brown were a good receiving duo for that team.

Megatron would be way up there if his career didn’t prematurely end.

 

[PatsRebuild]

No, he's not. He's top 10. He wasted some years in there by checking out mentally and only had 1 great year here and 2 other good ones, before BB had to kick him out of town.

As for his wasted Raiders years, well, they were wasted.

I am not even sure he's better than Steve Largent. Moss ran like 5 routes and a was clearly a gifted freak who commanded a double time in his prime, but he's not Jerry Rice.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Rice also used stick em after it got banned...he had an average rookie season then all of sudden he became great

a lot of great players arent as good in their rookie years

 

[amfootball]

Both Moss and Owens are wrong when they credit themselves for bringing big receivers to the forefront. It was Michael Irvin that blazed that trail.

 

[denverpatsfan]

He's no Stanley Morgan...

 

[PatsRebuild]

He's no Stanley Morgan...

He gets disrespected for the best of that era. Very underrated. Imagine if he played with a good passing QB?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Question for old time fans: Who was the goat before rice being the goat was a thing?

 

[BobDigital]

Moss is a HOFer but he isn't the GOAT. While I wouldn't call him a one trick pony, his game isn't very complete. He has a few A+ grades and alot of Bs and Cs. I feel like his detractors like to pigeon hole him as a guy who is only a deep threat, but he's more than that. That being said, he has that reputation for a reason.

For me personally, give me Rice and Calvin Johnson over him all day. There is a reason they were more successful than Moss in the bigger games and against the best defenses.

 

[BobDigital]

Question for old time fans: Who was the goat before rice being the goat was a thing?

Most would say Don Hutson or Steve Largent (but that didn't last long as him and Rice overlapped). Maybe even Lance Alworth.

 

[PatsRebuild]

Question for old time fans: Who was the goat before rice being the goat was a thing?

Here is a list you might see:

Don Hutson
Lance Alworth
Charlie Taylor
Paul Warfield
Raymond Berry

Taylor and Warfield are really underrated, IMO, but Hutson was sort of the early gold standard WR as far as I can remember. Raymond Berry was a route master. There is old footage out there of him working and working on it because he knew he wasn't that athletic so he had to work at it other ways.

Steve Largent was incredible and never really played with a good QB. He did everything, ran every route, was tough, go deep, underneath, over the middle, etc.

 

[PatsRebuild]

Moss is a HOFer but he isn't the GOAT. While I wouldn't call him a one trick pony, his game isn't very complete. He has a few A+ grades and alot of Bs and Cs. I feel like his detractors like to pigeon hole him as a guy who is only a deep threat, but he's more than that. That being said, he has that reputation for a reason.

For me personally, give me Rice and Calvin Johnson over him all day. There is a reason they were more successful than Moss in the bigger games and against the best defenses.

I remember he'd leave the huddle early which pissed me off. He knew it wasn't a pass play being called and it was a run. I honestly think other teams picked up on this, including the Giants in SB 42.

Larry Fitzgerald is probably the modern choice for the all around complete WR you'd want, IMO. Moss was great. Johnson also, yes. Moss is not #1, though.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

For everyone who says Rice couldn‘t make those same highlight reel leaping touchdown passes, can you find a highlight of Moss doing this? This is Rice at 34.


I love Moss, but I think a lot of the Moss > Rice takes are more about aesthetics than actual value. Rice was a threat to take it to the house every play just like Moss. Big plays, chain moving plays...whatever it was, Rice was dominant.

 

[JMC00]

Randy Moss' QBs

Randall Cunningham
Jeff George
Daunte Culpepper
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks/Andrew Walter
Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Colin Kaepernick/Alex Smith


Jerry Rice's QBs

Joe Montana
Steve Young
Jeff Garcia
Rich Gannon (won MVP one of the years he played with him and was Tom Brady away from potentially leading the Raiders to back to back SBs)

 

[PatsRebuild]

Randy Moss' QBs

Randall Cunningham
Jeff George
Daunte Culpepper
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks/Andrew Walter
Tom Brady
Matt Cassel
Colin Kaepernick/Alex Smith


Jerry Rice's QBs

Joe Montana
Steve Young
Jeff Garcia
Rich Gannon (won MVP one of the years he played with him and was Tom Brady away from potentially leading the Raiders to back to back SBs)

True, but what I would counter with is the idea that Montana ran the West Coast, and Cunningham, George, Culpepper, Kerry Collins, etc, etc, those kinds of QBs had big arms and were homerun ball type guys with Moss. Let's face it, you chuck the thing downfield and let him streak by the CB and Safety.

It's not that hard to launch a ball 40 yards with the the right trajectory and just allow a really big athletic, fast freak to run underneath it because you know he will win that battle due to his freakish make up.

When BB dealt for Moss, I honestly thought it would not work because NE uses some West Coast concepts in their plays in terms of timing and route running, etc. Moss is not really a good route runner outside of the 5 or so that he ran. Not a knock, it's just the truth. In the end, it didn't work because Moss was rendered useless in the postseason in 2007, because he's limited in terms of what he can do to deceive the D, so NE's offense became more predictable as the season went.

There's a reason why Brady failed in the postseason in 2007 as his bad habits started to form....It only goes so far. Rice, while true, had Montana and then Young, was a master route runner, arguably the greatest ever. His efficiency was insane.

 

[sb1]

For everyone who says Rice couldn‘t make those same highlight reel leaping touchdown passes, can you find a highlight of Moss doing this? This is Rice at 34.


I love Moss, but I think a lot of the Moss > Rice takes are more about aesthetics than actual value. Rice was a threat to take it to the house every play just like Moss. Big plays, chain moving plays...whatever it was, Rice was dominant.

That was Grbac to Rice... unreal.

Alex Smith to Hunt and Hill in the opener in 2017 flashbacks

 

[denverpatsfan]

True, but what I would counter with is the idea that Montana ran the West Coast, and Cunningham, George, Culpepper, Kerry Collins, etc, etc, those kinds of QBs had big arms and were homerun ball type guys with Moss. Let's face it, you chuck the thing downfield and let him streak by the CB and Safety.

It's not that hard to launch a ball 40 yards with the the right trajectory and just allow a really big athletic, fast freak to run underneath it because you know he will win that battle due to his freakish make up.

When BB dealt for Moss, I honestly thought it would not work because NE uses some West Coast concepts in their plays in terms of timing and route running, etc. Moss is not really a good route runner outside of the 5 or so that he ran. Not a knock, it's just the truth. In the end, it didn't work because Moss was rendered useless in the postseason in 2007, because he's limited in terms of what he can do to deceive the D, so NE's offense became more predictable as the season went.

There's a reason why Brady failed in the postseason in 2007 as his bad habits started to form....It only goes so far. Rice, while true, had Montana and then Young, was a master route runner, arguably the greatest ever. His efficiency was insane.

Um. Brady and Moss DID score the go ahead TD in that game. BBs defense lost it!

 

[PatsRebuild]

Um. Brady and Moss DID score the go ahead TD in that game. BBs defense lost it!

Wow.

So, you just absolve anything the offense was meant to do earlier in the game and then blame an end of game gassed D? Wow.

It's pretty embarrassing to set all these stats based records that Brady was so concerned about (showing up Peyton Manning in that area for once - beacuse, make no mistake, after losing to Manning in the 2006 title game, was absolutely what that was about), and then crap down your leg for 4 qtrs. I don't care what he did with a TD late. That was pathetic. And scoring ZERO points in the 2nd half of SB 46 was the same thing. In each game, the offense was supposed to be the strength of the team, and they forgot to show up, including Brady taking a lazy Safety to start that game, the high throw to a wide open Welker late and then the devastating INT on a 1st down to the start the 4th qtr, underthrown, to a hobbled Gronk. You give NJGE 4-5 more carries in that game, and NE wins it. Seriously, that's how mismanaged that game was by him, in particular the 2nd half. He was horrible. It's why BB drafted Garoppolo. He'd had enough, and guess what? It worked! Brady woke up to be the Weis Era Brady again.

Dude, no offense, but Brady's postseasons in 2007 and 2011 were absolutely atrocious. The D put us in both SBs. You don't win SBs scoring 14 points. We were lucky our D was so incredible vs the Rams this last time.

 

[sb1]

Dude, no offense, but Brady's postseasons in 2007 and 2011 were absolutely atrocious.

Brady's passer rating in both postseasons: 96 and 100.4 respectively.

AbSOluTeLY AtRoCiOus

 

[FCB02062]

Who would i take in their prime? Moss over everyone. But longevity is hard to ignore

you talking about the Randy Moss who had 1, 3 and 6 catches and 1 touchdown in the 2007 playoffs and super bowl? or a different one...

 

[sb1]

Um. Brady and Moss DID score the go ahead TD in that game. BBs defense lost it!

Gave up the game winning drive in both. Allowed the 32nd ranked Giants rushing offense in SB46 to run easily all over the Pats.