OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[amfootball]

Yeah this is always the after its over, effect. Nobody thought the Tampa who had zero playoff wins in 18 years was going to win the superbowl. The talking heads had them losing every playoff game before the game happened. No chance they can stand up to that Wash defense. No way they can go on the road with the saints who beat them twice. No way they can go to lambeau. No way they can beat the chiefs. Its so silly to hear now that Brady just went to some juggernaut that was tearing up the league for years so he could steal a ring. The entire team and coaching staff all the way to the owner know what Brady brought them and have said as much.

It really was spectacular to watch. I can't think of anything close to it in sports especially when you factor in Brady's age. I mean the guy has always been jetsetting his entire career but this was over the top even for him.

 

[PP2]

Todd Bowls was respected by a lot on this board. His ability as a DC was never laughable.

No way. A number of us were bashing on him and his stubborn soft zone schemes that teams like the Saints feasted upon. I was no exception. I had to eat crow when he flipped the script in the playoffs, especially the SB.

 

[Angelpats]

No one had the Bucs winning their division much less making a run to the SB on the road. The Saints were better than them and the Packers.
They had a talented team in some areas but they were by no means a powerhouse and Brady going there was not something the talking heads or even most Brady fans on this board thought would result in a SB championship in year one blowing out Mahomes in the SB on top in a Covid season. The only poster I remember really believing in them toward the end of the season was SB1. LOL.

Brady was the one that attracted the FAs to come there and of course Licht having another stellar draft with Wirfs and Winfield helped put them over the top. But even when the playoffs started, most had then beating WFT and then losing badly to the Saints. That would have been considered a pretty good season in year one. Win 11 games, win a playoff game and then bow out to your division rival who owned you all season. But Brady got that team believing and they put together their best game of the season up until that point when they played the Saints.

And then very few if any had them going into GB in winning given Rodgers was MVP and playing at home for the first time in his career for the NFCCG and again the Bucs rose to the occasion. Probably their best win of the season until they destroyed the Chiefs on both sides of the ball to win the chip.

So this notion that this was some "dream team" or "Lebron-esque" team cake walking to the SB is complete non-sense. They did not look like a contender at all until they beat the Saints in the playoffs and even then they had to still face the Packers and Chiefs to actually win it and were underdogs in those games. It was an amazing season in totality that was capped off by having the GOAT QB getting everyone on the same page believing. The owner said as much when he accepted the Lombardi trophy.

It’s their own narrative that Brady is washed up and needed to be on a super team to win. They were underdogs except for the first game of the playoffs, they were written off after that midsesson losing streak. Only after they won it all that they spin things to fit this Brady hate narrative.

 

[RicoG]

Yeah this is always the after its over, effect. Nobody thought the Tampa who had zero playoff wins in 18 years was going to win the superbowl. The talking heads had them losing every playoff game before the game happened. No chance they can stand up to that Wash defense. No way they can go on the road with the saints who beat them twice. No way they can go to lambeau. No way they can beat the chiefs. Its so silly to hear now that Brady just went to some juggernaut that was tearing up the league for years so he could steal a ring. The entire team and coaching staff all the way to the owner know what Brady brought them and have said as much.

As I recall. Pretty much everyone was predicting the Bucs will make it to the playoffs but lose anywhere from the wild card to the NFC final.

No one was predicting even a SB appearance. The 1st one on this thread and outside of it to really call it was SB1. SB1 started on this thread as a big doubter of Tommy boy to boot.

But to fair to everyone else and myself included. So many things had to go right for TB to win, and it pretty much did. Brady not average or good, but still elite. Gronk not an injured old man but 90% of peak Gronk. AB not quite a total nutcase. Fournette not just a JAG but playoff Lenny. And these are just the new guys.

 

[amfootball]

It’s their own narrative that Brady is washed up and needed to be on a super team to win. They were underdogs except for the first game of the playoffs, they were written off after that midsesson losing streak. Only after they won it all that they spin things to fit this Brady hate narrative.

Imagine ever thinking the Tampa Suckaneers are a super team? LOL

The salt is a mile high on April 8.

 

[amfootball]

As I recall. Pretty much everyone was predicting the Bucs will make it to the playoffs but lose anywhere from the wild card to the NFC final.

No one was predicting even a SB appearance. The 1st one on this thread and outside of it to really call it was SB1. SB1 started on this thread as a big doubter of Tommy boy to boot.

But to fair to everyone else and myself included. So many things had to go right for TB to win, and it pretty much did. Brady not average or good, but still elite. Gronk not an injured old man but 90% of peak Gronk. AB not quite a total nutcase. Fournette not just a JAG but playoff Lenny. And these are just the new guys.

Most of us figured Arians would mess it up. He was doing a pretty good job the first half of the season.

 

[Pats1971]

As I recall. Pretty much everyone was predicting the Bucs will make it to the playoffs but lose anywhere from the wild card to the NFC final.

No one was predicting even a SB appearance. The 1st one on this thread and outside of it to really call it was SB1. SB1 started on this thread as a big doubter of Tommy boy to boot.

But to fair to everyone else and myself included. So many things had to go right for TB to win, and it pretty much did. Brady not average or good, but still elite. Gronk not an injured old man but 90% of peak Gronk. AB not quite a total nutcase. Fournette not just a JAG but playoff Lenny. And these are just the new guys.

Right, but that is any team. A lot has to go right to win the superbowl, but tampa was never in anyones conversations of a contender before Brady got there. Teams have to know how to win. Notice the same teams are always in the top 5 in draft picks every year and cannot seem to get better. Some of it is bad drafting but some of it is mindset and leadership lacking. A collection of talent does not win superbowls. Tampa had no idea how to win, their mindset was if a game is close or they get behind, its a loss. They said this themselves, all this changed last year.

 

[gobesmug]

No one had the Bucs winning their division much less making a run to the SB on the road. The Saints were better than them and the Packers.
They had a talented team in some areas but they were by no means a powerhouse and Brady going there was not something the talking heads or even most Brady fans on this board thought would result in a SB championship in year one blowing out Mahomes in the SB on top in a Covid season. The only poster I remember really believing in them toward the end of the season was SB1. LOL.

Brady was the one that attracted the FAs to come there and of course Licht having another stellar draft with Wirfs and Winfield helped put them over the top. But even when the playoffs started, most had then beating WFT and then losing badly to the Saints. That would have been considered a pretty good season in year one. Win 11 games, win a playoff game and then bow out to your division rival who owned you all season. But Brady got that team believing and they put together their best game of the season up until that point when they played the Saints.

And then very few if any had them going into GB in winning given Rodgers was MVP and playing at home for the first time in his career for the NFCCG and again the Bucs rose to the occasion. Probably their best win of the season until they destroyed the Chiefs on both sides of the ball to win the chip.

So this notion that this was some "dream team" or "Lebron-esque" team cake walking to the SB is complete non-sense. They did not look like a contender at all until they beat the Saints in the playoffs and even then they had to still face the Packers and Chiefs to actually win it and were underdogs in those games. It was an amazing season in totality that was capped off by having the GOAT QB getting everyone on the same page believing. The owner said as much when he accepted the Lombardi trophy.

I fully agree it is nonsense to say they were a LeBron esque or GSW type team.

They had a strong roster and looked like a team that would greatly benefit from having Brady.

The Saints were the better matchup, and if Taysom Hill hadn't been injured, it might have been the Saints losing to the Packers in the NFC.

The Bucs rush was crippling to QBs like Mahomes and Rogers, because they like to hang onto to the ball looking for the homerun and making the first defender miss to make time.

Problem for Rogers and Mahomes is that the Bucs have very athletic rushers that stop that nonsense.

The only weakness was the Bucs average secondary, which Brees was able to feast against with a somewhat healthy offense. Precision quick passing is the Bucs defensive Achilles heel .

 

[jal]

Fair to say that Tampa was considered a talented, promising young team on both sides of the ball, but without a + quarterback and no real understanding of how to win. Same situation as a lot of teams, frankly, and hardly a powerhouse when viewed ex ante.

What happened?
1. Brady significantly upgraded the most important position & also changed the culture
2. The young players got better (esp. in the playoffs - looking at Devin White and that secondary in particular)
3. The team overall had good injury luck by the time the playoffs started

And voila, Lombardi Trophy.

Now the questions are
1. Can Brady maintain his form? (yes - likely improved given a real offseason and more time to gel)
2. Can those young players consistently play at the level they showed in the playoffs, or even better? (unknown)
3. Can the team stay as healthy come playoff time as in 2020? (unknown)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Most of us figured Arians would mess it up. He was doing a pretty good job the first half of the season.

He overcomplicated the offense. From all accounts, the Thanksgiving bye "heart to heart" was all about simplifying the route tree and concepts.

I wonder how Winston would have done if he'd had the same pull as Brady. I'm not saying he would have been an all-pro quarterback, but I don't think throwing 30+ interceptions is entirely his fault either.

There's an SI article from a few years ago that details a week of Carson Palmer (then with Arizona under Arians) preparing for a gameplan. It's completely over-the-top and an absurd amount of variations Palmer has to study for; in addition, there have been other citations about quarterbacks (Andrew Luck, Ben Roethlisberger) struggling badly to comprehend an Arians offense, especially in year one. It was obvious that Brady was trying to dig too deep when it wasn't even necessary, having such great weapons around him and a capable offensive line.

Hopefully Arians learned a lesson...you can have the greatest gameplans in the world, but if the players can't all be on the same page in executing them, and if their complexity causes the offense to slow itself down, they're not that great after all.

 

[Deus Irae]

How many teams in the NFL have 2 legitimate starting TEs let alone 3?

Who do the Chiefs have after Kelce?

Tell me all the great TEs that GB has.

Explain to me to the great depth at TE the Saints had last season.

Who did the Pats have at TE to back up Gronk all those years, outside of the 1 year they had Bennett? Even when they had Hernandez who did they have to back up those 2 in case of injury?

TE was not a need for the Bucs, they even had a decent backup in Hudson that would have been our starting TE last year.

The reason they took Gronk wasn't because he was needed for depth, but because he is a HOF talent that overall, including blocking, is still a top 5 TE. IMO he his is still best overall TE in the game.

This is literally not an argument that does anything to forward the notion that Gronk was just a luxury, for multiple reasons. C'mon, man. Be better than this.

First, Arians had made his disappointment in Howard clear. Remember this:

Arians: O.J. Howard 'can play a heck of a lot better'

O.J. Howard reportedly being shopped by the Buccaneers?


Second, Brate is not a TE1, and his NFL history makes that clear.

 

[Pats1971]

He overcomplicated the offense. From all accounts, the Thanksgiving bye "heart to heart" was all about simplifying the route tree and concepts.

I wonder how Winston would have done if he'd had the same pull as Brady. I'm not saying he would have been an all-pro quarterback, but I don't think throwing 30+ interceptions is entirely his fault either.

There's an SI article from a few years ago that details a week of Carson Palmer (then with Arizona under Arians) preparing for a gameplan. It's completely over-the-top and an absurd amount of variations Palmer has to study for; in addition, there have been other citations about quarterbacks (Andrew Luck, Ben Roethlisberger) struggling badly to comprehend an Arians offense, especially in year one. It was obvious that Brady was trying to dig too deep when it wasn't even necessary, having such great weapons around him and a capable offensive line.

Hopefully Arians learned a lesson...you can have the greatest gameplans in the world, but if the players can't all be on the same page in executing them, and if their complexity causes the offense to slow itself down, they're not that great after all.

There is a reason he does not have the pull of Brady. Who's fault are they? He threw them. Brady knew what to fix and did that. Other QB's could not, they did not abandon Arians offense, Brady lead the league in down field passing, but Brady's input on things is why it improved.

 

[Pats1971]

I fully agree it is nonsense to say they were a LeBron esque or GSW type team.

They had a strong roster and looked like a team that would greatly benefit from having Brady.

The Saints were the better matchup, and if Taysom Hill hadn't been injured, it might have been the Saints losing to the Packers in the NFC.

The Bucs rush was crippling to QBs like Mahomes and Rogers, because they like to hang onto to the ball looking for the homerun and making the first defender miss to make time.

Problem for Rogers and Mahomes is that the Bucs have very athletic rushers that stop that nonsense.

The only weakness was the Bucs average secondary, which Brees was able to feast against with a somewhat healthy offense. Precision quick passing is the Bucs defensive Achilles heel .

Even when Brady got there, even half way through the season, nobody said Tampa would win a superbowl. Nobody. Nobody said all they needed was a decent QB, nobody said they are a superbowl team with a good QB. Fact is, nobody paid them any mind at all. The media essentially went on the attack on them because Brady was now there and thats what the media does. There is a great youtube video of the headlines, the media talks, and everything else that basically said Tampa was nothing and going nowhere and Brady failed without belichick. Now...after the superbowl, all that is forgot and brady went to a superbowl powerhouse. Its so silly, its not even worth a conversation.

Actually in the playoffs Brees had his most healthy offense that they had all year. In fact this was said over and over again before the game when they were trying to say tampa had no chance.

 

[gobesmug]

This is literally not an argument that does anything to forward the notion that Gronk was just a luxury, for multiple reasons. C'mon, man. Be better than this.

First, Arians had made his disappointment in Howard clear. Remember this:

Arians: O.J. Howard 'can play a heck of a lot better'

O.J. Howard reportedly being shopped by the Buccaneers?


Second, Brate is not a TE1, and his NFL history makes that clear.

Having a third starting quality TE is a luxury. That was my point. Saying Gronk was a luxury is a bit misleading I give you that. I should have made it clear that it was the position and not Gronk himself.

I would say having Brate behind Gronk and OJ was a luxury, because clearly Gronk was an immediate upgrade.

Brate, while not a defacto #1, is definitely a good #2 TE in a 2 TE set.

An offense of Evans, Godwin, OJ, and Brate is a great compliment of weapons, not a juggernaut, but still great.

Adding AB and Gronk made it a juggernaut that was never healthy at the time.

Hopefully AB is able to rejoin so we can see Brady with that arsenal healthy.

 

[Pats1971]

Having a third starting quality TE is a luxury. That was my point. Saying Gronk was a luxury is a bit misleading I give you that. I should have made it clear that it was the position and not Gronk himself.

I would say having Brate behind Gronk and OJ was a luxury, because clearly Gronk was an immediate upgrade.

Brate, while not a defacto #1, is definitely a good #2 TE in a 2 TE set.

An offense of Evans, Godwin, OJ, and Brate is a great compliment of weapons, not a juggernaut, but still great.

Adding AB and Gronk made it a juggernaut that was never healthy at the time.

Hopefully AB is able to rejoin so we can see Brady with that arsenal healthy.

OJ got hurt pretty early on. Gronk had been going downhill for the last few years, people said he would not even make it through the season. Brate has never nor will be ever be a number one TE. There was no luxury.

 

[gobesmug]

Even when Brady got there, even half way through the season, nobody said Tampa would win a superbowl. Nobody. Nobody said all they needed was a decent QB, nobody said they are a superbowl team with a good QB. Fact is, nobody paid them any mind at all. The media essentially went on the attack on them because Brady was now there and thats what the media does. There is a great youtube video of the headlines, the media talks, and everything else that basically said Tampa was nothing and going nowhere and Brady failed without belichick. Now...after the superbowl, all that is forgot and brady went to a superbowl powerhouse. Its so silly, its not even worth a conversation.

Actually in the playoffs Brees had his most healthy offense that they had all year. In fact this was said over and over again before the game when they were trying to say tampa had no chance.

Mediots are not with listening to, because they are purely spewing nonsense for entertainment.

It's why you wouldn't seek out Nancy Grace if you needed legal advice.

The media always blows things out of proportion. After the Bucs smoked GB, they were lauded as the best team in football and everyone picked them to beat the Saints in their Sunday night rematch.

Instead they got humiliated then lost a few games in a row, after losing Ali Marpet those games, and suddenly they were trash.

Don't listen to mediots for actual football analysts.

 

[Deus Irae]

Having a third starting quality TE is a luxury. That was my point.

I've addressed this already.

• Howard hasn't been able to hold up physically, had been a disappointment, and was even rumored to be on the trading block
• Brate's not a TE1

At this point, I have to assume that you're just trolling for some reason.

 

[Pats1971]

Mediots are not with listening to, because they are purely spewing nonsense for entertainment.

It's why you wouldn't seek out Nancy Grace if you needed legal advice.

The media always blows things out of proportion. After the Bucs smoked GB, they were lauded as the best team in football and everyone picked them to beat the Saints in their Sunday night rematch.

Instead they got humiliated then lost a few games in a row, after losing Ali Marpet those games, and suddenly they were trash.

Don't listen to mediots for actual football analysts.

Oh I get that, but fans were doing the same.

 

[gobesmug]

OJ got hurt pretty early on. Gronk had been going downhill for the last few years, people said he would not even make it through the season. Brate has never nor will be ever be a number one TE. There was no luxury.

The Bucs failed the roster then by not trying to add Aaron Rogers in case Brady gets hurt.

Depth is a luxury, a contingency plan, you don't invest a lot of resources because a player might get hurt.

Right now the Bucs have the luxury of taking the BPA, because every starting pos is taken. Backups are a luxury.

Obviously you want capable backups that can start, but having a backup who can start on another team is a luxury.

That's not saying luxuries aren't great, it's just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Pats1971]

The Bucs failed the roster then by not trying to add Aaron Rogers in case Brady gets hurt.

Depth is a luxury, a contingency plan, you don't invest a lot of resources because a player might get hurt.

Right now the Bucs have the luxury of taking the BPA, because every starting pos is taken. Backups are a luxury.

Obviously you want capable backups that can start, but having a backup who can start on another team is a luxury.

That's not saying luxuries aren't great, it's just calling a spade a spade.

Well in gronks case it would have been like going to get Bret Favre as your backup, Not rodgers. Again, the book on Gronk was he was done or that he would not make it through the season. Lets not act like Gronk had 20 teams all trying to pay him a fortune to come back. Frankly he would not have come back to any team unless Brady was playing, so there is your luxury.