OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[RicoG]

How come people swoon over Manning and disrespect Brady?

Manning got 5 MVP and that was probably 1 or 2 too many. One year he got outplayed clearly by Brees but they wanted to gave Manning the MVP so badly that they give it to both of them.

Brady got snubbed out of the pro bowl. He should have gotten it over Murray or Wilson who has been playing bad for several games now. I hear it's because of the talent at WR. Well Brady also has to work with those very average coaches, find the right blend in offensive philosophy, etc,.. and he is 43 playing at a high level.

I just checked his QB ranking at NFL.com and he dropped down in ranking from 9 to 10. What a joke, after a clutch performance with great stats last game.

 

[RicoG]

How come people swoon over Manning and disrespect Brady?

Manning got 5 MVP and that was probably 1 or 2 too many. One year he got outplayed clearly by Brees but they wanted to gave Manning the MVP so badly that they give it to both of them.

Brady got snubbed out of the pro bowl. He should have gotten it over Murray or Wilson who has been playing bad for several games now. I hear it's because of the talent at WR. Well Brady also has to work with those very average coaches, find the right blend in offensive philosophy, etc,.. and he is 43 playing at a high level.

I just checked his QB ranking at NFL.com and he dropped down in ranking from 9 to 10. What a joke, after a clutch performance with great stats last game.

Oh and CBS has Brees ranked at 6 while Brady drops from 5 to 10. LOL.

I personally think a fair ranking for Brady is anywhere between 5 and 8.

 

[lancerman]

How come people swoon over Manning and disrespect Brady?

Manning got 5 MVP and that was probably 1 or 2 too many. One year he got outplayed clearly by Brees but they wanted to gave Manning the MVP so badly that they give it to both of them.

Brady got snubbed out of the pro bowl. He should have gotten it over Murray or Wilson who has been playing bad for several games now. I hear it's because of the talent at WR. Well Brady also has to work with those very average coaches, find the right blend in offensive philosophy, etc,.. and he is 43 playing at a high level.

I just checked his QB ranking at NFL.com and he dropped down in ranking from 9 to 10. What a joke, after a clutch performance with great stats last game.

Because contextually Manning was a guy who everyone decided was going to be amazing and the next big thing when he entered the league and everyone was waiting to be proven right (they were he's an all timer) so he always got more rope for and he was for lack of a better word diminished because the GOAT existed in his era. Brady was always a clear comparison for Manning and nobody saw Brady coming. So it was really that people wanted to be right about Manning and embrace him and Brady was a nice story for awhile but then he became this big in your face reminder that people don't know what they are talking about when they project out football outcomes.

 

[203Pat]

But that is the case with most coaches without a competent QB. Walsh without montana didnt win much either.

But he drafted Steve Young to keep the team in position to win.

 

[upstater1]

But he drafted Steve Young to keep the team in position to win.

People point to the 49ers and Packers as examples of drafting replacements for great QBs because they were the only 2 to do it successfully.

Forgotten in the annals of history are the dozens of teams that tried by failed. Miami has never replaced Dan Marino and it's been 20 years. Same with Denver--never replaced Elway. Buffalo never replaced Jim Kelly. So... it's just easy to point to Green Bay and the 49ers because they have been the only successful franchises to do it.

BUT, then again, the 49ers didn't replace Steve Young easily though you an argue Jeff Garcia was better than a mediocre NFL QB.

 

[203Pat]

People point to the 49ers and Packers as examples of drafting replacements for great QBs because they were the only 2 to do it successfully.

Forgotten in the annals of history are the dozens of teams that tried by failed. Miami has never replaced Dan Marino and it's been 20 years. Same with Denver--never replaced Elway. Buffalo never replaced Jim Kelly. So... it's just easy to point to Green Bay and the 49ers because they have been the only successful franchises to do it.

BUT, then again, the 49ers didn't replace Steve Young easily though you an argue Jeff Garcia was better than a mediocre NFL QB.

I have been saying all along that people seem to be understating how difficult it is to land a legitimate franchise QB. I keep reading "when we find a QB this team is ready to compete" like we just draft a guy and keep rolling along. GB and SF are used as examples because it highlights how few and far between it is to find back to back franchise QB's. Walsh was able to set his team up for success after he left with quality drafting.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

But he drafted Steve Young to keep the team in position to win.

Traded for Young.

 

[203Pat]

Traded for Young.

You are correct. Either way he had a plan in place for when the franchise icon was gone.

 

[amfootball]

Because contextually Manning was a guy who everyone decided was going to be amazing and the next big thing when he entered the league and everyone was waiting to be proven right (they were he's an all timer) so he always got more rope for and he was for lack of a better word diminished because the GOAT existed in his era. Brady was always a clear comparison for Manning and nobody saw Brady coming. So it was really that people wanted to be right about Manning and embrace him and Brady was a nice story for awhile but then he became this big in your face reminder that people don't know what they are talking about when they project out football outcomes.

Manning was supposed to do what Brady did - win 6 SBs. Brady was supposed to hold a clip board his entire career. The juxtaposition is stunning when you think about it. Poor Dungy is struggling to stay relevant by listing Steve Young as the most difficult QB to defend when it was Brady that took out his Colts teams in 2003/2004 when Manning was playing the best football of his career. The sour grapes just keep pouring from him as he pleads that he will never say Brady is better than Manning. I think I enjoy this stuff more now that Brady is 43 and still playing while Manning bowed out 5 years ago as a shell of himself.

 

[upstater1]

Manning was supposed to do what Brady did - win 6 SBs. Brady was supposed to hold a clip board his entire career. The juxtaposition is stunning when you think about it. Poor Dungy is struggling to stay relevant by listing Steve Young as the most difficult QB to defend when it was Brady that took out his Colts teams in 2003/2004 when Manning was playing the best football of his career. The sour grapes just keep pouring from him as he pleads that he will never say Brady is better than Manning. I think I enjoy this stuff more now that Brady is 43 and still playing while Manning bowed out 5 years ago as a shell of himself.

Manning was great. Top 10 if not top 5. Always worried about him. But for most of his career he withered in the most crucial moments, and the D saved his bacon in both of his Super Bowl wins. Manning was so overconfident that he was not careful with the ball so he made gut wrenching fumbles and interceptions. & when he left the confines of the Dome, he didn't much like the cold weather either.

I give him a ton of credit for his one great year with the Broncos. He looked great. Had learned his lessons. Played in cold weather. But then he was obliterated by the Seahawks.

It's very odd that people always say Brady won his 6 SBs because of Belichick's great D, but they rarely if ever mention that 3 of those Super Bowl wins were because of a great offense (Carolina, Seattle, Atlanta). Not to mention that 2 of the losses were due to poor defense (NY Giants #2 and Philadelphia #2). All credit goes o the Patriots D vs. Rams #1, Philly #1, Rams #2, but otherwise it was all Brady.

 

[RIpats88]

I have been saying all along that people seem to be understating how difficult it is to land a legitimate franchise QB. I keep reading "when we find a QB this team is ready to compete" like we just draft a guy and keep rolling along. GB and SF are used as examples because it highlights how few and far between it is to find back to back franchise QB's. Walsh was able to set his team up for success after he left with quality drafting.

Bill had a guy in Jimmy Garoppolo. But Brady stayed elite longer than anyone thought.

Maybe he is injury prone but he's definitely a winning QB

 

[upstater1]

You are correct. Either way he had a plan in place for when the franchise icon was gone.

Is it a plan though? Or is luck?

Belichick has been planning for a long time for Belichick's departure. But the timing and the players--they haven't really worked out.

 

[amfootball]

Bill had a guy in Jimmy Garoppolo. But Brady stayed elite longer than anyone thought.

Maybe he is injury prone but he's definitely a winning QB

I heard them say on the Hub the other day that Bill would not be interested in trading for Jimmy on his current deal. Apparently $24/mil a year is too much for QB that wins a lot of games.

 

[upstater1]

Bill had a guy in Jimmy Garoppolo. But Brady stayed elite longer than anyone thought.

Maybe he is injury prone but he's definitely a winning QB

Maybe with Josh's tutelage he wouldn't have thrown those interceptions in crucial moments, but he really did wither with a decent lead in the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl. I mean, it was a Manning-esque ball shrivel. Not a good look.

 

[amfootball]

Manning was great. Top 10 if not top 5. Always worried about him. But for most of his career he withered in the most crucial moments, and the D saved his bacon in both of his Super Bowl wins. Manning was so overconfident that he was not careful with the ball so he made gut wrenching fumbles and interceptions. & when he left the confines of the Dome, he didn't much like the cold weather either.

I give him a ton of credit for his one great year with the Broncos. He looked great. Had learned his lessons. Played in cold weather. But then he was obliterated by the Seahawks.

It's very odd that people always say Brady won his 6 SBs because of Belichick's great D, but they rarely if ever mention that 3 of those Super Bowl wins were because of a great offense (Carolina, Seattle, Atlanta). Not to mention that 2 of the losses were due to poor defense (NY Giants #2 and Philadelphia #2). All credit goes o the Patriots D vs. Rams #1, Philly #1, Rams #2, but otherwise it was all Brady.

Manning had a great career. Most have him in the top 5 all time BUT it is hard to not to see him in the huge shadow of Brady.
Think about it now. The only time Manning gets brought up anymore is in relation to Brady because their careers were so entwined. When Brees was breaking Manning's records last year, many of the talking heads debated if Brees should be listed ahead of Manning. I mean that is just foolish but that was the discussion. That is how far ahead Brady is of everyone.

 

[203Pat]

Bill had a guy in Jimmy Garoppolo. But Brady stayed elite longer than anyone thought.

Maybe he is injury prone but he's definitely a winning QB

I like Jimmy more than most but you can't give Bill credit for drafting a replacement and not actually having him replace Brady. I just can't get over the fact Bill had no backup plan in place when both sides knew Brady's last year would be 2019.

 

[Nehalem]

I heard them say on the Hub the other day that Bill would not be interested in trading for Jimmy on his current deal. Apparently $24/mil a year is too much for QB that wins a lot of games.

SF with JG this year 3-3.
SF without JG this year 2-6

 

[203Pat]

Is it a plan though? Or is luck?

Belichick has been planning for a long time for Belichick's departure. But the timing and the players--they haven't really worked out.

I think to some extent luck is involved in any personnel move a coach/GM makes but Walsh gave up a second and a fourth to get Young which isn't a blockbuster trade but still pretty good compensation for a guy who many looked at as a bust. Bill, in all likelihood, drafted Jimmy to replace Brady but Jimmy was long gone when Brady signed that deal in camp in 2019 I think it is pretty reasonable to assume that both sides knew 2019 was it. He seemed to be content with Stidham (who he won't even let start a meaningless game apparently) and Brian Hoyer (who put up one of the worst performances I have ever seen by a Patriots QB) to be the Patriots 2020 QB(s). He had no plan in place and no one seems to want to call him out for it.

 

[amfootball]

SF with JG this year 3-3.
SF without JG this year 2-6

Jimmy is 24-8 as a starter.

 

[lancerman]

But he drafted Steve Young to keep the team in position to win.

Young was in a position that I doubt you ever see in the modern era where an MVP caliber QB is stocked on a team waiting for another legend to move on. At least not in the same way where the salary cap completely benefitted from it