OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[JMC00]

I love how when Brady leaves Tampa it's back to the cellar but NE loses Brady and we are 'preparing'. All about how we word things I guess.

To be fair it could be argued if Pats had even average QB play for the Chiefs, Broncos and Bills games those are probably wins and Pats are sitting here 5-2 and could even argue the 49ers game is completely different with the team coming in with momentum and better QB play and it might be 6-1 and then at that point they were a yard short of being 7-0

Instead QB play has been bad and covid clearly messed with the team more than anyone thought. They looked different before the whole sh!tshow maybe not SB contender but definitely was looking to be a battle for the AFC East. Absolutely kicked the sh!t out of the Raiders who beat the Chiefs and gave Brady and the Bucs a game for 3.5 quarters

 

[RicoG]

I could have predicted this 4 months ago. Tom going to a Tampa team loaded with weapons, Gronk back too. Belichick with 26M in dead cap space, then Hightower/Chung/Cannon opt out. The real story will be 3 years from now when we look back. Right now it's way too early. Just like it was too early to laugh at Brady throwing two pick-6's in a row and not knowing 4th down. Belichick will reload after fixing all the crappy cap this year, 120M open cap next year, a top12 pick in 2021, and clear out old/bad players from this year.

Brady and TB just need to make a deep playoff run and it's a win no matter what happens next year or the next.

BB has about 5 years to show he is the goat without Brady. So far it is not looking good as the offensive skill position is awfull. NE played with 4 UFA WR last game is just bad. He is a defensive genious, but the league has handicapped defenses. Most of the big calls goes against the defense. There are hardly any elite defenses anymore and offences scoring 30 or 40 points is now a dime a dozen.

I suspect McDaniels and Caserio are the main reasons why the offensive skill position is so bad. Bill will have to find someone new to scout this position or he'll be a losing coach without Brady.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Patriots are 2-5 and Brady is an early MVP front runner. Guess we know who won the Brady/Bill argument lol

To me it was always a stupid argument. The fact is, the QB position impacts winning far more than the head coaching position. Players win the games and QB is by far the most important position. Even belichick is on record saying this. I don't care how great of a coach you are you need a good/great QB if you're going to win in this league... And don't waste your time listing rare exceptions. They are exceptions, not the rule.

Brady was always the number one reason for the pats success. If you told me I had the choice to build a team and I could either have a great QB and decent coach or great coach and decent QB I'd pick the great QB 100 times out of 100. That's not to say the head coaching position isn't very important too, it's just that the QB is alot more important to a teams success.

 

[upstater1]

I suspect McDaniels and Caserio are the main reasons why the offensive skill position is so bad. Bill will have to find someone new to scout this position or he'll be a losing coach without Brady.

I still rate McDaniels as one of the top few OC in the league. He takes advantage of the space on the field like no other. It's not his fault Cam got Covid. I am making excuses for Cam. He's not the same player, and Covid can make you mentally foggy. His throwing motion isn't even the same but that could be because of his late reactions. Something is different here.

As for Caserio, it would be easier to judge him if the Patriots actually used more prime picks (say, first 4 rounds) on receivers. But they don't.

 

[RicoG]

To me it was always a stupid argument. The fact is, the QB position impacts winning far more than the head coaching position. Players win the games and QB is by far the most important position. Even belichick is on record saying this. I don't care how great of a coach you are you need a good/great QB if you're going to win in this league... And don't waste your time listing rare exceptions. They are exceptions, not the rule.

Brady was always the number one reason for the pats success. If you told me I had the choice to build a team and I could either have a great QB and decent coach or great coach and decent QB I'd pick the great QB 100 times out of 100. That's not to say the head coaching position isn't very important too, it's just that the QB is alot more important to a teams success.

I would add that this is true in today's league where defenses are handicapped especially with dpi such as the end of the 4th in the Saints game yesterday. The CB barely breathed on the WR and got a penalty.

The early NE dynasty, teams could win with a game managing offense. I don't think NE has adjusted to the new reality yet that WR talent is no longer easy to get on the cheap. They need to use some high picks and keep good players if their contract is affordable. Ie They didn't want to pay Amendola and was allowed to leave even though he was still producing and his contract demands were modest. They replaced Amedola's skillset with no one.

 

[everlong]

I suspect McDaniels and Caserio are the main reasons why the offensive skill position is so bad. Bill will have to find someone new to scout this position or he'll be a losing coach without Brady.

See Bill's comments regarding Jonathan Baldwin being as good or better than Julio Jones when asked by the Atlanta front office about trading up for him.

 

[RicoG]

I still rate McDaniels as one of the top few OC in the league. He takes advantage of the space on the field like no other. It's not his fault Cam got Covid. I am making excuses for Cam. He's not the same player, and Covid can make you mentally foggy. His throwing motion isn't even the same but that could be because of his late reactions. Something is different here.

As for Caserio, it would be easier to judge him if the Patriots actually used more prime picks (say, first 4 rounds) on receivers. But they don't.

I'm not knocking him as coach.

It's the roster construction of the WR/TE going down hill for I'd say about 5 years. They let go of Amendola who I think got something like 7 million for 2 years. They tried to get Humphries who is an overall worse receiver for what?$9million/year? We could all see Gronk slowing down and not happy. They could have gotten OJ Howard. Tampa was trying to shop hi for 2 years. Actually, or Brate too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm not knocking him as coach.

It's the roster construction of the WR/TE going down hill for I'd say about 5 years. They let go of Amendola who I think got something like 7 million for 2 years. They tried to get Humphries who is an overall worse receiver for what?$9million/year? We could all see Gronk slowing down and not happy. They could have gotten OJ Howard. Tampa was trying to shop hi for 2 years. Actually, or Brate too.

Yes...if reports are to be believed, the Patriots didn't bite on Howard due to Tampa's asking price. Then turned around and traded a second round pick for Mohamed Sanu. ************. It was clear that Brady likes Howard earlier this season and training camp.

 

[JMC00]

See Bill's comments regarding Jonathan Baldwin being as good or better than Julio Jones when asked by the Atlanta front office about trading up for him.

That's because Bill wanted Jones. Saban probably told him if he could get him, get him. If Falcons don't go up he potentially falls a little from #6 and the Pats had #17(from the Raiders) in that draft, maybe Belichick would have went up if he dropped

That was Belichick trying to work Dimitroff out of doing it.

Also the Falcons have done feck all with Jones except getting to 1 Superbowl which they lost to.... the Pats

 

[RIpats88]

Right now it doesn't look good, but who knows if bill goes out and injects some talent onto this team next year and they make the playoffs. Patriots need a REALLY good draft and free agency

 

[everlong]

That's because Bill wanted Jones. Saban probably told him if he could get him, get him. If Falcons don't go up he potentially falls a little from #6 and the Pats had #17(from the Raiders) in that draft, maybe Belichick would have went up if he dropped

That was Belichick trying to work Dimitroff out of doing it.

Also the Falcons have done feck all with Jones instead of getting to 1 Superbowl which they lost to.... the Pats

Jones was never dropping to 17, Bill was never trading up for a receiver and the SB is complete irrelevant to his view on WRs.

Edit: Trading up that high in the draft for a WR. He traded up and down in the second round for several with various degrees of success.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That's because Bill wanted Jones. Saban probably told him if he could get him, get him. If Falcons don't go up he potentially falls a little from #6 and the Pats had #17(from the Raiders) in that draft, maybe Belichick would have went up if he dropped

That was Belichick trying to work Dimitroff out of doing it.

Also the Falcons have done feck all with Jones instead of getting to 1 Superbowl which they lost to.... the Pats

Belichick is great but isn‘t infallible. No need for spin like this.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

The tompa bay gronkaneers offense needs to go off soon. Better not look ahead but it’s hard not to. They know the saints are their competition in that division and didn’t look so good in their first game.

 

[carmelo15]

Less than half a season played and we're declaring winners (in what is an astronomically stupid argument to begin with)? Why do people continue to perpetuate this Belichick or Tom nonsense. Or worse yet, the Belichick vs. Tom garbage? It's a false narrative.

Would've figured folks on this board who watched the two of them succeed together would be above this. But no, there are people who must choose sides and see a binary, black-and-white situation where none exists. Sports-talk culture cultivates the worst in people far too often. Just look at parts of this thread (meaning the parts that contain this bogus Bill vs. Tom junk narrative) ... or the average game-day thread.

were you saying this after some were celebrating us being 1-0 vs Tampa being 0-1 weeks ago

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Brady and TB just need to make a deep playoff run and it's a win no matter what happens next year or the next.

BB has about 5 years to show he is the goat without Brady. So far it is not looking good as the offensive skill position is awfull. NE played with 4 UFA WR last game is just bad. He is a defensive genious, but the league has handicapped defenses. Most of the big calls goes against the defense. There are hardly any elite defenses anymore and offences scoring 30 or 40 points is now a dime a dozen.

I suspect McDaniels and Caserio are the main reasons why the offensive skill position is so bad. Bill will have to find someone new to scout this position or he'll be a losing coach without Brady.

Excellent post. Agree. It's too early to judge BB. Give it a look back when it's 2024. Also agree we won't miss McDaniels and Caserio. Maybe they both can go to the Jets or some other team.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I still rate McDaniels as one of the top few OC in the league. He takes advantage of the space on the field like no other. It's not his fault Cam got Covid. I am making excuses for Cam. He's not the same player, and Covid can make you mentally foggy. His throwing motion isn't even the same but that could be because of his late reactions. Something is different here.

As for Caserio, it would be easier to judge him if the Patriots actually used more prime picks (say, first 4 rounds) on receivers. But they don't.

Even forgetting sheer volume, 0/2 on Aaron Dobson and NKeal Harry is really really bad on McDaniels and Caserio. Belichick relies on people telling him who is in the same 'value grouping' or not.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

To me it was always a stupid argument. The fact is, the QB position impacts winning far more than the head coaching position. Players win the games and QB is by far the most important position. Even belichick is on record saying this. I don't care how great of a coach you are you need a good/great QB if you're going to win in this league... And don't waste your time listing rare exceptions. They are exceptions, not the rule.

Brady was always the number one reason for the pats success. If you told me I had the choice to build a team and I could either have a great QB and decent coach or great coach and decent QB I'd pick the great QB 100 times out of 100. That's not to say the head coaching position isn't very important too, it's just that the QB is alot more important to a teams success.

I don't know. I go coach. Look at Mayfield with bad coaches, no dice. On the other hand look at Vrabel with an avg QB. Look at McVay with an avg QB. I think a coach is far more valuable. 53 players on the team. It isn't like the nba with only 5 players on the court and the best player just wins.

.

 

[IllegalContact]

ok.......so Brady has Brown, Evans, Gronk, Godwin, Jones, Fournette and a top defense.........so will the coach be to blame when this team goes nowhere in the playoffs?

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

ok.......so Brady has Brown, Evans, Gronk, Godwin, Jones, Fournette and a top defense.........so will the coach be to blame when this team goes nowhere in the playoffs?

If the team remains undisciplined that’s on the coach. Their defense has to be more consistent especially their pass defense.

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't know. I go coach. Look at Mayfield with bad coaches, no dice. On the other hand look at Vrabel with an avg QB. Look at McVay with an avg QB. I think a coach is far more valuable. 53 players on the team. It isn't like the nba with only 5 players on the court and the best player just wins.

.

the browns draft brady instead of spergon wynn, and none of this happens...........anywhere