OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[JayNM]

I doubt he had a choice with the Gronk trade to tampa. Gronk wasnt going to play anywhere but Tampa and he was retired.

Already answered
"I get it. He wasnt playing for us, so whatever we could get is a profit."

and he had a choice. For sure.

 

[sb1]

Im liking your posts Falcons2020

I have to say, Ive been thinking about this for years... At some point, it does feel like BB has been doing emotional-driven decisions rather than maximizing... stuff (and Im taking a hint from your economist post later, bc I 100% agree)

One example that i do not see people ever talking, but i think its pretty telling (there are many others, more relevant eve than this one,however this is just one that is pretty evident and often forgotten)

Trading Gronk to Tampa

I get it. He wasnt playing for us, so whatever we could get is a profit.

That's not how you maximize your assets, tho. That is noy how you deal with your scarce resources (some definitions of economy is the study of resources, in very vague terms)

BB has changed since he became HC. For the better, in most cases. But he is losing edge in the trade market in a baffling way, for these last few years

What do you suggest Bill do with Gronk? He wasn’t playing here.

 

[Tony2046]

Once Brady left I felt like the Pats were feeling confident with Stidham. When they acquired Cam I figured that either Stidham was injured or needed a little more time.

Let's face it, Brady is irreplaceable so nobody would have filled that void.

Yeah nobody is replacing Brady. I wish he was still here but he's not. It is what it is. We got the most incredible twenty year run ever. My kids weren't even born when it started and were teenagers when it ended which is just something no other fan base can say. Some say it ended badly. I say it just ended as we all knew it would eventually but just didn't know how.

The Pats could go 0-16 and I'll still watch with my son every Sunday. My son and I will probably talk about certain games for the rest of my life. What a gift that turned out to be.

So if it's Stidham or Cam or Jimmy G I'll be watching.

 

[lancerman]

I agree with everything you are saying. But we actually are/can be competitive this year.

Right now our season comes down to the Bills games and hoping the Ravens can take care of then and we don’t have another loss. Which is a lot. That Broncos loss was huge.

We are 2-3

Ignoring the division leaders

Dolphins: 3-3

Ravens: 5-1

Browns: 4-2

Colts: 4-2

Raiders: 3-2

That’s the wildcard picture. We are behind two teams that are already out and the Broncos are also going to win a tiebreaker over us at the same record.

Currently we are ranked 11th out of 16 in the conference. There’s more teams in front of us than behind us.

The reality is that a loss tomorrow ends our season.

 

[JayNM]

What do you suggest Bill do with Gronk? He wasn’t playing here.

I dont like doing hypotethicals in the past, especially in this forum. Its practically a waste of time and with enough ifs and buts, everything is possible

I know that dealing an asset like gronk without a second thought for a fourth pick not maximizing assets.

"oh but he wasnt playing for us...."

So you heavily strenghten an opposition team getting a FOURTH ROUND pick (statistically, the expected return of a Fourth round pick is VERY close to the minimal you can get in any give transaction in the league. In other words, ZERO).

This trade makes no sense in a competitive environment. Letting Gronk rot would be the best value for our asset. Getting more of a 4th round pick would MINIMIZE the fact we lost an asset to a rival (or is getting a SB trophy not enough of a prize?)

You can make the hypotheticals. I will still believe that what we did was a horrendous move

*edit - we traded a gronk and a 7th for a 4th

 

[lancerman]

If Bucs get to the SB it will be because of their defense. The way they shut down Rodgers was impressive.

Maybe it’s just me but I kimda would rather have a defense very strong up front like that than ours being strong in the back. Seems like it’s more suitable for way the league is today.

No a good secondary is a huge value in a passing league. It’s symbiotic though. A mediocre secondary will get guys open in seconds and even the best pass rushes don’t matter.... we’ve exploited this on teams with a quick pass concept. A good secondary won’t hold up long if you get no pressure. But realistically it’s more likely a 5 extra seconds of good coverage gets a rusher free

 

[sb1]

I dont like doing hypotethicals in the past, especially in this forum. Its practically a waste of time and with if and buts, everything is possible

I know that dealing an asset like gronk without a second thought for a SEVENTH pick not maximizing assets.

"oh but he wasnt playing for us...."

So you heavily strenghten an opposition team getting a SEVENTH ROUND pick (statistically, the expected return of a seventh round pick is VERY close to the minimal you cant get in any give transaction in the league. In other words, ZERO).

This trade makes no sense in a competitive environment. Letting Gronk rot would be the best value for our asset. Getting more of a 7th round pick would MINIMIZE the fact we lost an asset to a rival (or is getting a SB trophy not enough of a prize?)

You can make the hypotheticals. I will still believe that what we did was a horrendous move

We got back a 4th round pick. The trade was Gronk plus our 7th for their 4th.

And even if it was for a 7th- Bucs are not in our division or conference and are an afterthought from a rivalry perspective other than when they’re on our schedule...

 

[JayNM]

We got back a 4th round pick. The trade was Gronk plus our 7th.

True. I edited later

 

[lancerman]

The most mind boggling part to me is it seemed like Bill was perfectly content to go into the season with Stidham and Hoyer for a while.

Way too many people assumed Bill had some magic plan for Stidham. It’s probably a lot more likely that Bill figured they’d work something out with Brady and all the reports that Bill was surprised were correct. Then he went into the off season saw the QB market and realized you don’t find good deals for free agent QB’s..... until Cam was just sitting there

 

[sb1]

True. I edited later

If we traded away Gronk to say the Dolphins or Chiefs then yeah I agree. Tampa is not on our radar imo.

 

[JayNM]

We got back a 4th round pick. The trade was Gronk plus our 7th for their 4th.

And even if it was for a 7th- Bucs are not in our division or conference and are an afterthought from a rivalry perspective other than when they’re on our schedule...

The competition is to win the National Football League.

Gronk with Brady helps them a lot.

BB has helped a rival, while getting less value in return

These are the basis of my argument.

I guess i disagree with you (and BB),bc Tampa with Brady is on my radar

 

[RIpats88]

this looks exciting now, but so did AB on the Raiders and when he joined the patriots. Lets wait and see if he starts tweeting and acting crazy again. Or what happens if he doesnt get enough targets.

a tiger doesnt change its stripes. Lets not act like all his issues getting him jettisoned off of 3 teams are magically gone.

 

[lancerman]

The competion is to win the National Football League.

Gronk with Brady helps them a lot.

BB has helped a rival, while getting less value in return

These are the basis of my argument.

No he didn’t. We don’t play Tampa this year. At best he traded Gronk to a team that plays the Raiders and Chiefs and could get wins they would help us on the standings and we wouldn’t deal with him unless we made the SB. It’s likely a benefit to us this year.

Next year... yes we have to play him once... assuming he stays.... and then he would need to play until 2025 for us to see him again.

People forget that Gronk had us by the balls. Before the opt outs, if Gronk wanted to be a **** and force Belichick he could unretire and pretty much break our cap and force us to make cuts or cut him outright for nothing.

 

[lancerman]

this looks exciting now, but so did AB on the Raiders and when he joined the patriots. Lets wait and see if he starts tweeting and acting crazy again. Or what happens if he doesnt get enough targets.

a tiger doesnt change its stripes. Lets not act like all his issues getting him jettisoned off of 3 teams are magically gone.

AB was actually fine the two weeks he was here. He just had his legal issues spring up

 

[PP2]

Yeah nobody is replacing Brady. I wish he was still here but he's not. It is what it is. We got the most incredible twenty year run ever. My kids weren't even born when it started and were teenagers when it ended which is just something no other fan base can say. Some say it ended badly. I say it just ended as we all knew it would eventually but just didn't know how.

The Pats could go 0-16 and I'll still watch with my son every Sunday. My son and I will probably talk about certain games for the rest of my life. What a gift that turned out to be.

So if it's Stidham or Cam or Jimmy G I'll be watching.

Amen!

I think everyone's lives will be easier if they just accept that the dynasty is over. We had a great 20 year run, but all good things come to an end.

I have zero expectations these days other than to watch a good football game. As long as Bill Belichick is there, we'll at least compete every Sunday.

 

[JayNM]

No he didn’t. We don’t play Tampa this year. At best he traded Gronk to a team that plays the Raiders and Chiefs and could get wins they would help us on the standings and we wouldn’t deal with him unless we made the SB. It’s likely a benefit to us this year.

Next year... yes we have to play him once... assuming he stays.... and then he would need to play until 2025 for us to see him again.

People forget that Gronk had us by the balls. Before the opt outs, if Gronk wanted to be a **** and force Belichick he could unretire and pretty much break our cap and force us to make cuts or cut him outright for nothing.

Again, this is hypotethical past, so lets just starting by agreeing that we dont have all the facts on that, bc the Pats are very tight sealed

But thinking that a player has a team by the balls is something that is only true at superficial level. This league is built around giving an assymetrical amount of power to managers against players.

if Gronk had "threaten" to return, constraining our cap space, we couldve threatened to trade him to a cap-space free tean for nothing, where he would have to endure 1 season in a **** team bf re-joining with a 44 year old QB

The ifs dont work and assumptions dont work

 

[sb1]

The competion is to win the National Football League.

Gronk with Brady helps them a lot.

BB has helped a rival, while getting less value in return

These are the basis of my argument.

I guess i disagree with you (and BB),bc Tampa with Brady is on my radar

I don’t think Bill cares one way or the other about “helping” Tom. And even if he did, that would help the Pats too because the Bucs play the AFCW - who is on our radar.

How the Bucs do this year other than when they play the AFCW has no impact on our team.

 

[JayNM]

I don’t think Bill cares one way or the other about “helping” Tom. And even if he did, that would help the Pats because the Bucs play the AFCW which is on our radar. How the Bucs do this year other than when they play the AFCW has no impact on our team.

I disagree on u with this.

The NFL has only 32 teams, everything that happens in each team affects ours. It might not affect directly and it might not affect much, but 100% affects us. Its a copycat league, remember?

Coming back to trade, i will give you another perspective now

Given the results that have happened already and considering the possibilities of what may yet to come (Basically dont think of what could have happend)

Getting ONLY a 4th round pick, for Gronk and A SEVENTH (so, not even adding one player, we just replacing gronk for 3 draft rounds, basically)

does that sound like a good deal to you? EDIT - Isnt Gronk, unhappy and expensive, better than freaking IZZO? Im not even sure....

People blame in hindsight a lot. Well, there are some people who can think ahead. BB used to be one of them, he used to care. This move, to me, was a very shortsighted one. Done without the many Economics virtues that I used to love in him

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Bill did a poor job drafting on offense which is what got us where we are. We were able to move from Welker and Moss to edelman and gronk because they developed those guys and they became stars

Unfortunately he hasn't drafted the next guys yet. You need guys who can beat coverage. You cant scheme guys open every play.

Haven't developed anyone outside of James White who likely developed himself being an elite personalty. So basically nobody since Bill O'Brien left as coordinator.

 

[captain stone]

As long as it doesn't happen to you, right? That ignorance is bliss. Go **** yourself Captain Stone.

Someone's ****y was cranky yesterday morning...

Here's a question for you Metooman: Where are the ****ING CHARGES from that event? Answer: THERE ARE NONE.

So go **** yourself while on my ignore list, Metooman.