OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[lancerman]

I liked this, pretty funny. Tom Brady is the sports Ark of the Covenant (i.e. good luck charm)

I can’t believe we let him go

 

[sb1]

I can’t believe we let him go

We didn't let him go, he let us go.

 

[Tony2046]

He’s not wrong. There’s a very high possibility at the end of this year the story is “Belichick missed the playoffs 4 times in NE, 3 times were without Brady”. Then add Cleveland on top of it and it’s in 8 of his 9 seasons without Brady, he missed the playoffs.

Meanwhile Brady’s on pace to be possibly the only 20+ year QB ever to not have a losing season while Belichick’s likely going to miss out on tying Landry’s 20 consecutive winning season record after hitting 19.

There’s a chance it doesn’t happen, but right now it’s trending that way. If it does, that will be part of his story

The Pats are going to get better. Cam is still new to the system and having very little practice time over the last three weeks hurts.

I think BB is doing a phenomenal job.

 

[captain stone]

The Pats are going to get better. Cam is still new to the system and having very little practice time over the last three weeks hurts.

I think BB is doing a phenomenal job.

Bill the HC? Maybe...

But Bill the GM? Whatever the opposite of Phenomenal is, that's him.

 

[amfootball]

Bill the HC? Maybe...

But Bill the GM? Whatever the opposite of Phenomenal is, that's him.

The Denver game was one of his worst games as a HC.

 

[sb1]

The Denver game was one of his worst games as a HC.

Wouldn't go that far.

I'd say SBLII was probably his worst coached game mostly because of one decision and we all know what it is.

 

[upstater1]

Hit rate is so misleading. The Steelers drafted like 7 pro bowl caliber WRs over the last 20 years and you bring up role player Patriot WRs and say the 'hit rate' is the same. There's a big difference from just making the team to being one of the league's best

Role players? Deion Branch? Julian Edelman?

 

[Tony2046]

Bill the HC? Maybe...

But Bill the GM? Whatever the opposite of Phenomenal is, that's him.

I like his philosophy, cap management etc.. but he's due for a good draft.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Role players? Deion Branch? Julian Edelman?

Edelman aside c'mon. Compare it to the Steelers quality and it's not even close. Hit rate masks the fact that the Steelers get elite elite guys.

.

 

[upstater1]

Edelman aside c'mon. Compare it to the Steelers quality and it's not even close. Hit rate masks the fact that the Steelers get elite elite guys.

.

Deion Branch is not only a Super Bowl MVP, but a Pro Bowler.

At the time, he was one of the highest paid WRs in the game.

He was elite.

 

[Doctor DDS]

The lament about the Steelers and their WR drafting is just a weird one to me. In the past decade the Patriots outscored Pittsburg by 918 points. Nearly 6 points a game and obviously had much better postseason success. And most would concede that the Steelers also had the advantage on the OL and at RB. They did last outscore the Pats in a season in 2005 and that was by 10 points so that year should certainly be explored in detail. Drafting is only one component of talent acquisition and the Pats chose to pick up cheaper options like Hogan, Lafell, Amendola etc.. vs spending a lot of draft capital. There is no question that they are currently short on WR & TE talent and questioning the recent approach to filling those spots makes sense but going back to early parts of the dynasty is peculiar at best.

 

[Bill Lee]

The lament about the Steelers and their WR drafting is just a weird one to me. In the past decade the Patriots outscored Pittsburg by 918 points. Nearly 6 points a game and obviously had much better postseason success. And most would concede that the Steelers also had the advantage on the OL and at RB. They did last outscore the Pats in a season in 2005 and that was by 10 points so that year should certainly be explored in detail. Drafting is only one component of talent acquisition and the Pats chose to pick up cheaper options like Hogan, Lafell, Amendola etc.. vs spending a lot of draft capital. There is no question that they are currently short on WR & TE talent and questioning the recent approach to filling those spots makes sense but going back to early parts of the dynasty is peculiar at best.

Indeed, consider the overall record and it's no comparison.

Seems like we have some keen fantasy players on this thread.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Deion Branch is not only a Super Bowl MVP, but a Pro Bowler.

At the time, he was one of the highest paid WRs in the game.

He was elite.

ok cool. So Branch and Edelman. Still like 2 against 8 pro bowl Steelers wideouts. Why are you so insistent the Pats draft receivers as well as the Steelers when nobody in the entire world thinks so ?

.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Pats are going to get better. Cam is still new to the system and having very little practice time over the last three weeks hurts.

I think BB is doing a phenomenal job.

Cam is not actually new to the system at all. He played in it under Turner in Carolina.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm rooting for Tom. But this season shouldn't be a surprise. The Pats had a terrible cap situation this summer including the albatross dead cap Brady money. So this year is more of a cleanup cap year, always was. In the bigger time horizon I think Belichick also looks good the next 3 years.

Hell, he can start looking good as early as next season. A good draft, which he’s well overdue for, and lots of cap space means he could possibly put a dominant team on the field as early as 2021.

 

[Betterthanmost]

 

[lancerman]

Indeed, consider the overall record and it's no comparison.

Seems like we have some keen fantasy players on this thread.

Has nothing to do with any of that.

-Brown (pre Belichick)
-Patten (Cleveland)
-Caldwell (Chargers
-Gaffney (Eagles)
-Stallworth (Eagles)
-Welker (Dolphins)
-Moss (Raiders)
-Amendola (Rams)
-Lafell (Panthers)
-Cooks (Saints)
-Hogan (Bills)
-Gordon (Browns)

We’ve gotten fantastic production out of WR’s. Just we tend not to draft them. Which is the point. You can’t say oh because we’ve had a good passing game that means the drafts have been good.

Compare that list to the Belichick draft list.

-Deion Branch (2nd round)
-David Givens (7th round)
-Bethel Johnson (2nd round)
-PK Sam (5th round)
-Chad Jackson (2nd round)
-Matthew Slater (5th round- really ST)
-Brandon Tate (2nd round)
-Julian Edelman (7th round)
-Taylor Price (3rd round)
-Jeremy Ebert (7th round)
-Aaron Dobson (2nd round)
-Jeremy Gallon (7th round)
-Malcolm Mitchell (4th round)
-David Lucien (7th round)
-Braxton Berrios (6th round)
-N’Keal Harry (1st round)

I don’t really need to tell you which list is better and which one most people would associate those players as being trademark Patriots players. We’ve made 6 picks in the first or 2nd round and only Branch was a hit. Then Edelman was our real diamond in the rough that we actually developed. Only with him he didn’t become anything until 2013 which was his 5th season. So we actually didn’t even get real production out of him until he was passed his rookie contract. Then Givens was the only guy that did a thing for us and he only had 3 decent years and was out of the league after 5.

Now for the Steelers since 1998 they had Hines Ward, Troy Edwards, Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Markus Wheaton, Martavius Bryant, Juju Smith-Shuster, James Washington all on rookie contracts putting up at a minimum Givens numbers and then going passed 1000 yard status into super elite territory (way past Edelman and Branch). Considering how expensive WR can be, you start to see why there is real value in getting that much production out of your drafted talent. It’s looking like you can add Clayton Claypool to that list to.

 

[captain stone]

Cam is not actually new to the system at all. He played in it under Turner in Carolina.

He did play in an E-P offense at Carolina, but under Mike Shula...Turner is of course a Sid Gilman-Don Coryell disciple...

 

[Brewskies]

How old are you?

86, 87 in February, but I think you can look that up. What else do you want to know classless?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Has nothing to do with any of that.

-Brown (pre Belichick)
-Patten (Cleveland)
-Caldwell (Chargers
-Gaffney (Eagles)
-Stallworth (Eagles)
-Welker (Dolphins)
-Moss (Raiders)
-Amendola (Rams)
-Lafell (Panthers)
-Cooks (Saints)
-Hogan (Bills)
-Gordon (Browns)

We’ve gotten fantastic production out of WR’s. Just we tend not to draft them. Which is the point. You can’t say oh because we’ve had a good passing game that means the drafts have been good.

Compare that list to the Belichick draft list.

-Deion Branch (2nd round)
-David Givens (7th round)
-Bethel Johnson (2nd round)
-PK Sam (5th round)
-Chad Jackson (2nd round)
-Matthew Slater (5th round- really ST)
-Brandon Tate (2nd round)
-Julian Edelman (7th round)
-Taylor Price (3rd round)
-Jeremy Ebert (7th round)
-Aaron Dobson (2nd round)
-Jeremy Gallon (7th round)
-Malcolm Mitchell (4th round)
-David Lucien (7th round)
-Braxton Berrios (6th round)
-N’Keal Harry (1st round)

I don’t really need to tell you which list is better and which one most people would associate those players as being trademark Patriots players. We’ve made 6 picks in the first or 2nd round and only Branch was a hit. Then Edelman was our real diamond in the rough that we actually developed. Only with him he didn’t become anything until 2013 which was his 5th season. So we actually didn’t even get real production out of him until he was passed his rookie contract. Then Givens was the only guy that did a thing for us and he only had 3 decent years and was out of the league after 5.

Now for the Steelers since 1998 they had Hines Ward, Troy Edwards, Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle-El, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Markus Wheaton, Martavius Bryant, Juju Smith-Shuster, James Washington all on rookie contracts putting up at a minimum Givens numbers and then going passed 1000 yard status into super elite territory (way past Edelman and Branch). Considering how expensive WR can be, you start to see why there is real value in getting that much production out of your drafted talent. It’s looking like you can add Clayton Claypool to that list to.

Excellent excellent post.

We are terrible at drafting WRs when McDaniels is here. We drafted and developed good WRs and TEs when he wasn't here. (09-11 Gronk, Edelman, Hernandez under O'Brien and 01-04 Givens, Branch, Watson, Graham under Weiss). Nobody from 05-08 or 2012-now.

We seem to be ok at trading for other NFL team's receivers. Except that Sanu was a total bust. So hopefully nothing changed on our NFL WR evals unless McD messed up that dept too.

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