OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[wpdougie2180]

Is he good

 

[1960Pats]

Brady is obviously not as good as he was in 2016/17 anymore when he was playing as well as any QB has ever had in this league. Take off the homer glasses. The difference is only that he now has better weapons to work with. Let him work with what Cam Newton was working with today and he'd have looked as helpless as he did at times last year.

Actually, Brady worked last year with much less than Cam has this year and led the Pats to a 12-4 record, 13-3 if the Pats didn't get robbed by a Referee/Ravens fan vs KC.

 

[1960Pats]

In the back of my mind i still feel like the packers will make this a game because the Bucs coaching staff leaves a lot to be desired. That’s the biggest different compared to the pats. Undisciplined team.

Rodgers doesn't make comebacks against winning teams.

 

[Brewskies]

Brady had a great day. One of his best performances at QB for the Pats in the past couple of years and with TB so far. Congrats Tom.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

 

[amfootball]

You can see how Brady changes the whole culture of a team. Over the past 2 decades the Bucs have never had a statement win like that over an undefeated team with a QB that is in the MVP conversation. You could see the defenses' confidence just grow after the 2 picks and Brady making it 28-10 at the half and just putting his foot on their throats. So much so that Rodgers looked defeated at halftime knowing 3 scores was too much to overcome. That is what happens when the GOAT comes to an org and just transforms them. And for all the flack that Brady got for chewing out his Oline for their stupid penalties vs the Bears, they didn't commit one penalty today. That is what a leader does. He demands excellence and the team responds.

 

[1960Pats]

Is this a serious post ? You are aware of his achievements, no ?

I really don’t understand the hatred for BB. He’s brought so much winning and joy for decades.

No true Pats fans should hate Bill or Brady. They were the perfect storm of player and coach for 20 years. It's too bad they couldn't have stayed together.

 

[amfootball]

Geez. Brady has almost twice as many wins as Rodgers and just 6 more losses. That is unbelievable.

 

[Joker]

you guys realize that the most special ed spazz in all sport media, Max "Cliff" Kellerman has his own prime slot show on ESPN, I think...tomorrow is must watch...I'd call it the "Watch The Worm Squirm" episode. Poor moronic king of all feet in mouths will be twisting like a corn scarecrow in an Iowa twister tomorrow.

 

[1960Pats]

So, anyone interview that scrub running back? I'd love to hear his take on his quarterback now.

Will they ever learn?

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[PatsBoy12]

So the Bucs just beat an undefeated team with the best QB of all time (apparently), what will the detractors think of now?

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[catent]

So the Bucs just beat an undefeated team with the best QB of all time (apparently), what will the detractors think of now?

For someone who complains an awful lot about the so-called "trolls" in this thread, you're basically begging them to show up with posts like these. It's like hanging a bunch of bird feeders around your house and then complaining when birds show up.

Let the trolls be trolls. Thoughtful folks can appreciate BB's/Brady's excellence both when they're together and independent of each other.

As an aside, I do find it a bit curious that you've posted 6 times today, all of which have been in the Tampa thread. Are you no longer a Pats' fan? And I mean that completely seriously, no snark intended.

 

[Triumph]

I've gone over this a lot, but people refuse to beleve it.

Belichick has the same success rate drafting WRs that the Steelers do.

It is very hard to comprehend, I know, but the rate is the same.

The only difference is that the Steelers spend 4x as many draft picks in the first four rounds as the Patriots do.

People would be stunned to understand how few WRs BB has drafted relative to the rest of the league over the last two decades.

Starting in the 2000 draft, we've taken David Givens, Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, PK Sam, Chad Jackson, Julian Edelman, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, Josh Boyce, Aaron Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, Braxton Berrios and N'Keal Harry.

I'm not counting Harry in this analysis because he's only played in like 9 games. But look at the hit rate on the rest: 4 of 12. He's 33%. The Steelers are at 34%.

You dont want include Harry because it makes your comment more ridiculous.

The Steelers success at drafting WRs blows the Patriots to kingdom come. Its not even close.

Since 2009, Pittsburgh has drafted 4 Elite Stud WRs. NE has drafted ZERO. Edelman was a QB at Kent State and not a pure WR. NE developed Edelman over time. This discussion is about drafted WRs that step in to the role day 1.

Pittsburgh
2009 Mike Wallace best season 1257 yards and 10 TDs
2010 Emanuel Sanders best season 1400 yards and 9 TDs
Antonio Brown best season 1600 yards and 13 TDs
2017 Ju Ju Smith best season 1400 yards and 7 TDs

None of the NE WRs drafted since 2009 come within 100 miles of these numbers
2009 Tate
2010 Price
2012 Ebert
2013 Dobson, Boyce
2014 Gallon
2016 Mitchell, Lucien
2018 Berrios
2019 Harry

 

[PatsBoy12]

For someone who complains an awful lot about the so-called "trolls" in this thread, you're basically begging them to show up with posts like these. It's like hanging a bunch of bird feeders around your house and then complaining when birds show up.

Let the trolls be trolls. Thoughtful folks can appreciate BB's/Brady's excellence both when they're together and independent of each other.

As an aside, I do find it a bit curious that you've posted 6 times today, all of which have been in the Tampa thread. Are you no longer a Pats' fan? And I mean that completely seriously, no snark intended.

First, "detractors" includes people in the national media, not just Patsfans.com or this thread.

Secondly, I won't dignify that question, though you included the disclaimer. No disrespect intended. Just don't feel I have anything to prove.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I still hate the Bucs offense though, to be honest.

They got Godwin back, so they have their “horizontal” route guy again and are able to throw shorter passes for YAC. Of course, when they don’t have him, it’s not like they can try to adjust by having Miller, Watson, Tyler Johnson, etc. try to run some slants and screens instead of the Tecmo Bowl route tree.

Scotty Miller is used nothing like Edelman, by the way outside of being white and not big. He basically just runs deep routes. Could he be effective using different concepts? Probably...as could others.

They still use Ronald Jones a heck of a lot, and he’s a heavy, downhill runner. That’s fine except it really limits the options...it’s not like they can ever put a TE, or RB in motion.

Broadcaster explained how Brady reads the play from the deep pass then midrange then short. Seems ridiculous. None of their plays seem designed to hit WRs with spacing and let them get yardage...seems they’d rather go for 90% air yards.

There should be a heck of a lot more wide open players when you have Evans and Godwin for defenses to worry about and they also have a handful of effective guys out there.

Brady at 6.9 YPA this season...now some of that is skewed by a very anomalous amount of PI calls, but I get through feeling this team is really boom or bust like Arians Steelers and Cardinals teams.

 

[bigballas]

I've gone over this a lot, but people refuse to beleve it.

Belichick has the same success rate drafting WRs that the Steelers do.

It is very hard to comprehend, I know, but the rate is the same.

The only difference is that the Steelers spend 4x as many draft picks in the first four rounds as the Patriots do.

People would be stunned to understand how few WRs BB has drafted relative to the rest of the league over the last two decades.

Starting in the 2000 draft, we've taken David Givens, Deion Branch, Bethel Johnson, PK Sam, Chad Jackson, Julian Edelman, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, Josh Boyce, Aaron Dobson, Malcolm Mitchell, Braxton Berrios and N'Keal Harry.

I'm not counting Harry in this analysis because he's only played in like 9 games. But look at the hit rate on the rest: 4 of 12. He's 33%. The Steelers are at 34%.

who is the 4th? im counting branch & edelman....maybe givens but no not really. and branch is going back to 2002, thats 2/12 using your model

if you look at 2010 - 2019 (last decade) we are 0/9 in draft. if you add edelman to that, still at 10%

steelers 2010-2019 - 5 *HITS* out of 14 ...35% success rate. HIT defined as at least one 1000yd+ season

our best pick WR in terms of production in that period was a total of 698 total career yards. best year was 519 .. pitts had 7/13 do better than the 698

we ARE NOT any where near the same success rate

 

[catent]

First, "detractors" includes people in the national media, not just Patsfans.com or this thread.

Secondly, I won't dignify that question, though you included the disclaimer. No disrespect intended. Just don't feel I have anything to prove.

You won't dignify the question? I didn't ask you who your mom lost her virginity to, I asked you about which NFL team you root for. C'mon - answer the question. I don't mean it as a "gotcha", I'm trying to better understand where your head is at.

Do you find yourself rooting for the Patriots at all anymore? Would you identify as a Bucs' fan at this point?

--

As for your original post about the detractors, I'm sure the anti-Brady crowd will continue to bang their drum, the pro-Brady crowd will do the same, and the objective analysts will evaluate his play week-to-week as they have been. Today was a great game for him (and Tampa), but it's just one game, one data point, in a season with 16+ data points. Still a lot of games left to be played before any lasting conclusions can be drawn.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what the battle here is, exactly. Is Brady still a very good NFL QB? Of course. Anyone saying otherwise is out of their mind. The problem is that statements suggesting he may not be *the best* anymore, or that he isn't as good as he used to be, are met with fury and wrath and immediately labeled as the opinion of a "detractor", which is an unfortunate response.

There's a thoughtful discussion to be had about Brady's level of play over the course of his career, relative to other QBs, etc -- but I see very little of that thoughtful discussion being nurtured or encouraged in this thread. It's basically 150+ pages of folks trading barbs back and forth, and very little actual, meaningful conversation ... from either "side".