OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[SHOWTIME15]

Even an elite QB isn't as good as the greatest of all time.

BTW, that's funny how you make it sound so easy. Tell us, who are all the elite QB's tripping over themselves to come to New England?

Sure, no one as good as Brady is going to walk through the door. But he's not the only QB who could ever win us a SB. And I didn't say an elite QB was walking through the door next year. I said above it'll probably take Belichick a few years to turn the team around. He's going to have to draft an elite QB though.

With a below-average roster, Bill will get the team to 8-8 by the end of the year. That is remarkable. Any other coach would have us at 4-12 or so. Bill has never had an elite QB outside of Brady. You don't think he couldn't have won one or more SBs with Manning, Rodgers, Mahomes, etc?

 

[sb1]

When evaluating a defense over the course of a season, there is no metric more important than the total number of points given up.

When Tom Brady got injured in 2008, the team won 5 fewer games. Sure looks like that's about the same number we will be seeing this year as well. Some people think that's just a coincidence.

Points alone is not sufficient to evaluate a defense. The 2011 Pats were ranked league average in points allowed. Nobody is going to convince me one of the worst defenses I have ever seen was as good as average.

As for the 08 team there is no way a top 10 defense in the league has those attributes that I put in my previous post. They missed the playoffs because they couldn’t compete against good teams. The defense took a gigantic step back from 07 and the QB wasn’t good enough to overcome it like Brady usually could. That was not a SB team even if Brady wasn’t hurt.

 

[sb1]

Sure, no one as good as Brady is going to walk through the door. But he's not the only QB who could ever win us a SB. And I didn't say an elite QB was walking through the door next year. I said above it'll probably take Belichick a few years to turn the team around. He's going to have to draft an elite QB though.

With a below-average roster, Bill will get the team to 8-8 by the end of the year. That is remarkable. Any other coach would have us at 4-12 or so. Bill has never had an elite QB outside of Brady. You don't think he couldn't have won one or more SBs with Manning, Rodgers, Mahomes, etc?

You think 4-12? I’m thinking more like 1-15. Especially if we’re talking about mcDaniels.

 

[sb1]

Even an elite QB isn't as good as the greatest of all time.

BTW, that's funny how you make it sound so easy. Tell us, who are all the elite QB's tripping over themselves to come to New England?

It’s not Cam and it sure ain’t Stidham like some would like to think.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You think 4-12? I’m thinking more like 1-15. Especially if we’re talking about mcDaniels.

You might be right, but it goes to show you that Bill was just as important as Brady was to the success of this team.

 

[CISGS]

I think they need to give Keshawn Vaughn some run honestly. He can catch (I think better than these other RBs).

 

[XLIX]

Sure, no one as good as Brady is going to walk through the door. But he's not the only QB who could ever win us a SB.

Actually yeah, he kinda is. Anything else is just a figment of your imagination.

With a below-average roster, Bill will get the team to 8-8 by the end of the year. That is remarkable. Any other coach would have us at 4-12 or so. Bill has never had an elite QB outside of Brady. You don't think he couldn't have won one or more SBs with Manning, Rodgers, Mahomes, etc?

Just about every argument you make to support your thesis is just make believe.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Actually yeah, he kinda is. Anything else is just a figment of your imagination.

Just about every argument you make to support your thesis is just make believe.

so we’re never going to win another Super Bowl? we’re doomed without Brady?

 

[XLIX]

so we’re never going to win another Super Bowl? we’re doomed without Brady?

Well, in 40 years of playing before Brady, they didn't win any championships.... so while I won't say "never" I sure ain't holding my breath....

 

[venecol]

I have every right to be pissed at Brady, just as he has every right to go to the Bucs. At the end of the day, his HOF bust will have BOTH Patriots and Bucs on it, which may be ok to some of you but not me. Brady really didn't need to do it, and I think it's mainly because he wanted to stick it to Bill.

 

[1960Pats]

These Bill vs Tom comparisons will never end...why can't we all appreciate what we had here for so long?
Is there a different argument in Knoll vs Bradshaw or Walsh vs Montana?

I appreciate both of them but I appreciate Brady more. He's a player at the most important position, not just a coach.

I think the lack of appreciation comes from the Belichick supporters who felt the need to berate Brady from the moment he left. That forced many Brady fans to come to his defense.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Well, in 40 years of playing before Brady, they didn't win any championships.... so while I won't say "never" I sure ain't holding my breath....

no wonder you and @venecol left to join the Bucs fanbase...

 

[PatsWSB47]

no wonder you and @venecol left to join the Bucs fanbase...

He makes a good point no matter how mad you get that we recognize that fact...
and for cripes sakes none of us are Bucs fans, we are Bucs led by Brady fans. When Brady retires I doubt any will give a crap about how they do. Wrap your head around the fact that actual normal people can like the Patriots and another team that the most iconic and important players in the history of the Patriots is now playing on. It's a simple concept.

 

[sb1]

You might be right, but it goes to show you that Bill was just as important as Brady was to the success of this team.

Great players need great coaches and great coaches need great players.
- Tom Brady

That makes a lot of sense to me. We're seeing the results of Bill with crap QB play but I think Bill with a good QB not named Brady could have won a title or two and same with Brady the other way. Not 6 though. One of the best parts of 6 is it shut Steeler fan chest thumping right down.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He makes a good point no matter how mad you get that we recognize that fact...
and for cripes sakes none of are Bucs fans, we are Bucs led by Brady fans. When Brady retires I doubt any will give a crap about how they do. Wrap your head around the fact that actual normal people can like the Patriots and another team that the most iconic and important players in the history of the Patriots is now playing on. It's a simple concept.

How is it a good point? He is basically throwing in the towel as far as winning more super bowls are concerned....the fact that NE didn't win in the 40 years prior to Brady is irrelevant to what is going to happen in the next 40 years. And NE had some solid teams before 2001 too, like in the late 70s, mid 80s, and mid 90s.

And yeah, when you change your avatar to Bucs then it is a sign that you've changed teams. I call it as I see it.

 

[sb1]

Sure, but why do people insist on bringing it up? It's to trash Bill. No other reason why. I mean the sky is blue is also a fact, but what's the point in me saying that?

SB 36: Brady did great on the last drive, but the last drive would have been irrelevant without Ty Law and the defense smothering the Rams. In fact the Rams didn't even enter the red zone until the 4th quarter. This one was on the defense.

SB 49: Again, Malcolm Butler's play due to Bill's coaching was the key moment. Brady threw 2 picks in this game btw.

SB 53: Defense mainly

I have every right to be pissed at Brady, just as he has every right to go to the Bucs. At the end of the day, his HOF bust will have BOTH Patriots and Bucs on it, which may be ok to some of you but not me. This is not a situation like Peyton who needed another ring to cement his status or Ray Bourque going to the Avs to finally get a Cup. Brady really didn't need to do it, and I think it's mainly because he wanted to stick it to Bill.

Players don't get inducted into Canton associated to a team - that's only in MLB.

I'm sure Bill relished the opportunity without Brady as much as Brady did. Both have big egos.

 

[XLIX]

He makes a good point no matter how mad you get that we recognize that fact...
and for cripes sakes none of are Bucs fans, we are Bucs led by Brady fans. When Brady retires I doubt any will give a crap about how they do. Wrap your head around the fact that actual normal people can like the Patriots and another team that the most iconic and important players in the history of the Patriots is now playing on. It's a simple concept.

He acts like people should be ashamed to cheer on Brady. I am proud to be a Tom Brady fan just like I’m proud to be a NE Patriots fan.

Having said that, I’m not a blind homer. If/when one party screws up, I call them out for it.

 

[RicoG]

I appreciate both of them but I appreciate Brady more. He's a player at the most important position, not just a coach.

I think the lack of appreciation comes from the Belichick supporters who felt the need to berate Brady from the moment he left. That forced many Brady fans to come to his defense.

I appreciate both too and seeing how Tampa is struggling to reach their potential due to coaching makes me appreciate BB as a coach more.

However, it was a colossal mistake by Bill the GM to treat Brady like a JAG. All he had to do was offer a modest multiyear deal in the $25mil per year range. This is still a steal considering guys like JG averages $30mil.

Even after going to 9 SB, I still underestimated NE coaching staff as they are making this no talent NE team competitive. If the Pat's still had Brady, they lwould be going to the playoffs this year.

A team cannot take for granted the opportunity to get in the playoff and compete for a SB. Bill the GM made this mistake and arrogantly thought that a playoff birth is automatic.

So I appreciate BB the coach more and Bill the GM seriously needs his hands slapped

 

[PatsWSB47]

How is it a good point? He is basically throwing in the towel as far as winning more super bowls are concerned....the fact that NE didn't win in the 40 years prior to Brady is irrelevant to what is going to happen in the next 40 years. And NE had some solid teams before 2001 too, like in the late 70s, mid 80s, and mid 90s.

And yeah, when you change your avatar to Bucs then it is a sign that you've changed teams. I call it as I see it.

Getting to a Superbowl let alone winning ones is rare league wide. Having a solid team isnt all that easy either. We older folks know all too well the 70s 80s and
90s. Making the playoffs was our Superbowl most of those years. Dont take getting back there for granted. We are spoiled and a bit arrogant thinking we will soon.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Getting to a Superbowl let alone winning ones is rare league wide. Having a solid team isnt all that easy either. We older folks know all too well the 70s 80s and
90s. Making the playoffs was our Superbowl most of those years. Dont take getting back there for granted. We are spoiled and a bit arrogant thinking we will soon.

Yes, but to completely dismiss the notion that NE can get back to the SB without Brady is nonsense. NE got to 2 super bowls without Brady in 1985 and again in 1996. Will it be tough? Sure, but to act like NE is simply going to revert back to pre-Brady form for the next 40 years is simply not the sign of a true NE fan.