OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[CISGS]

Let me first say this:

Belichick is the GOAT coach.
Brady is the GOAT player.

Period. End of story. Do I personally give Brady more credit for their success? Yes, I do. Does that mean Bill is a bum? No, of course not.
------------------------------
Having said that, people need to stop using 2008 in their arguments. There are better examples to support your case. People really act like coaching that team to 11-5 was a great accomplishment. I'm sorry, but it wasn't.

You realize Matt Cassel literally made a Pro Bowl AFTER 2008.
He won 10 games as the Chiefs (who were much worse than NE btw) and won the AFC West.

Matt Cassel selected for Pro Bowl

Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel has been added to the AFC roster for the Pro Bowl.

www.espn.com

And the most overlooked part of all....

THE TEAM WENT 18-1 THE YEAR BEFORE AND SHOULD'VE FINISHED UNDEFEATED
The team won 7 fewer games. Just stop.

 

[CISGS]

Ronald Jones to have surgery. He's there best back by far.

Buccaneers Key Player to Have Surgery: Report

Tampa Bay didn't come away unscathed in ending its two-game losing streak with a 26-14 win over the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday.

heavy.com

Let me guess:
- It's Brady's fault he got hurt
- Belichick would've never let RoJo get hurt like that
- Brady sucked against LAR, KC, NO and GB

Got it.

 

[sb1]

Let me first say this:

Belichick is the GOAT coach.
Brady is the GOAT player.

Period. End of story. Do I personally give Brady more credit for their success? Yes, I do. Does that mean Bill is a bum? No, of course not.
------------------------------
Having said that, people need to stop using 2008 in their arguments. There are better examples to support your case. People really act like coaching that team to 11-5 was a great accomplishment. I'm sorry, but it wasn't.

You realize Matt Cassel literally made a Pro Bowl AFTER 2008.
He won 10 games as the Chiefs (who were much worse than NE btw) and won the AFC West.

Matt Cassel selected for Pro Bowl

Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel has been added to the AFC roster for the Pro Bowl.

www.espn.com

And the most overlooked part of all....

THE TEAM WENT 18-1 THE YEAR BEFORE AND SHOULD'VE FINISHED UNDEFEATED
The team won 7 fewer games. Just stop.

I think it was a great accomplishment.

The defense was kinda terrible that year. So was the QB coming out of camp. He turned into pretty good QB. 11-5 was a testament to great coaching.

Also I'd take 2008 Cassel over any QB on our roster right now

 

[amfootball]

I heard an interesting thing this morning.
Wrecks Ryan has a record of 61-66 and a 4-2 playoff record.
Bill minus TB has a record of 61-70 and a 1-1 playoff record.
Case closed.

Man. That is brutal. I think we are going to start seeing a lot of these statistical comparisons. There are a lot of coaches out there just itching to take Bill down now that Brady is gone.

 

[XLIX]

I think it was a great accomplishment.

The defense was kinda terrible that year.

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

The Patriots defense was #8 in the League in points allowed in 2008. #8 =/= "kinda terrible"

 

[Nehalem]

Let me first say this:

Belichick is the GOAT coach.
Brady is the GOAT player.

Period. End of story. Do I personally give Brady more credit for their success? Yes, I do. Does that mean Bill is a bum? No, of course not.
------------------------------
Having said that, people need to stop using 2008 in their arguments. There are better examples to support your case. People really act like coaching that team to 11-5 was a great accomplishment. I'm sorry, but it wasn't.

You realize Matt Cassel literally made a Pro Bowl AFTER 2008.
He won 10 games as the Chiefs (who were much worse than NE btw) and won the AFC West.

Matt Cassel selected for Pro Bowl

Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel has been added to the AFC roster for the Pro Bowl.

www.espn.com

And the most overlooked part of all....

THE TEAM WENT 18-1 THE YEAR BEFORE AND SHOULD'VE FINISHED UNDEFEATED
The team won 7 fewer games. Just stop.

You do realize that:

After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 3000 yards one time.
After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 20 TDs one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had a comp% of more than 60% one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had an int% of less than 3% one time.

But hey he was named as a Pro Bowl alternate one time...

 

[ashley]

These Bill vs Tom comparisons will never end...why can't we all appreciate what we had here for so long?
Is there a different argument in Knoll vs Bradshaw or Walsh vs Montana?

 

[CISGS]

You do realize that:

After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 3000 yards one time.
After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 20 TDs one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had a comp% of more than 60% one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had an int% of less than 3% one time.

But hey he was named as a Pro Bowl alternate one time...

Of course. I never said Cassel was an All-Pro every year.

But, in 2008, he was the QB of an 18-1 team though with weapons galore. Pretty sure most average QBs would win 11 with that team. That 2007 team is arguably the greatest ever.

 

[sb1]

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

The Patriots defense was #8 in the League in points allowed in 2008. #8 =/= "kinda terrible"

Sure if you don't look at any other metrics and you forget that they played only something like 5 good teams that year.

Gave up over 20 points 8 times
Gave up over 30 points 4 times
2nd most TD passes given up in the league
League Average pass defense
League Average run defense
A secondary with Deltha O'Neal as its best player

All against a very easy schedule which makes that "league average" ranking a few notches south of that in reality. Also gave up 147 points in 5 games to playoff teams. What I said about the defense was completely accurate.

Brady's presence probably gets them to the playoffs with one more win as the Colts loss was on Cassel but the talk about a 2008 undefeated season or even Super Bowl has no basis in reality with a defense like that.

And with a lesser coach they certainly don't end up with 11 wins.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

These Bill vs Tom comparisons will never end...why can't we all appreciate what we had here for so long?
Is there a different argument in Knoll vs Bradshaw or Walsh vs Montana?

The greatest of quarterbacks in the history of this league have for the most part had elite coaches, with the exception of Elway, Rodgers, and Manning. Likewise, the greatest of coaches in this league have always had elite QBs. They go hand in hand.

Belichick is getting unnecessarily trashed this year, but going into this season we knew that the Pats were going to be hamstrung by the salary cap limitations and covid opt-out players. Brady, on the other hand, walked into a great situation in TB that already had talented players and a team that could afford to add even more like Fournette, Gronk, and Brown. Is the roster that we have now Bill's fault? Yes, Bill the GM, not Bill the coach. Give Belichick 2-3 years to turn this ship around. Long term Bill might be better off than Brady since Tom will be gone from the league in 1-2 years. We'll see though. Roster building takes time.

 

[sb1]

The greatest of quarterbacks in the history of this league have for the most part had elite coaches, with the exception of Elway, Rodgers, and Manning. Likewise, the greatest of coaches in this league have always had elite QBs. They go hand in hand.

Belichick is getting unnecessarily trashed this year, but going into this season we knew that the Pats were going to be hamstrung by the salary cap limitations and covid opt-out players. Brady, on the other hand, walked into a great situation in TB that already had talented players and a team that could afford to add even more like Fournette, Gronk, and Brown. Is the roster that we have now Bill's fault? Yes, Bill the GM, not Bill the coach. Give Belichick 2-3 years to turn this ship around. Long term Bill might be better off than Brady since Tom will be gone from the league in 1-2 years. We'll see though. Roster building takes time.

"He (BB) is an incredible coach and I think players need coaches and coaches need players. He can't do my job and I can't do his job. It's just been a great partnership.”
- Tom Brady

Well said.

I think it would be good if Bill stops going out of his way to try and be the smartest guy in the room compared to his peers. He's always been like that as both GM and coach. That's how spygate happened.

Get some help in the draft room if you need to and get some good players here not reaches and projects that nobody else would touch but make the coach look like a genius if they work out. With our draft position being what it is it's a good opportunity to start.

 

[denverpatsfan]

To bring this thread back to the Bucs, what’s the consensus on how far they can go?

To me, the beat down they took against the Saints was one of those games that’s impossible to take a team seriously after that… Unless they have a coach who is so strong he can fundamentally transform the team in a few games, and it doesn’t seem like Arians is that type of guy.

Not impressed at all with the Bucs. They struggle to score. No running game. Defense is hit or miss. 1st round exit

 

[sb1]

 

[SHOWTIME15]

"He (BB) is an incredible coach and I think players need coaches and coaches need players. He can't do my job and I can't do his job. It's just been a great partnership.”
- Tom Brady

Well said.

I think it would be good if Bill stops going out of his way to try and be the smartest guy in the room compared to his peers. He's always been like that as both GM and coach. That's how spygate happened.

Get some help in the draft room if you need to and get some good players here not reaches and projects that nobody else would touch but make the coach look like a genius if they work out. With our draft position being what it is it's a good opportunity to start.

the biggest reseon IMO for the poor drafting has been the late start Bill often gets due to coaching in the super bowl. last year the pats were a first round exit and got some hits in the draft. it’s the peril you face if your team’s HC is the GM.

 

[Tompa12]

You do realize that:

After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 3000 yards one time.
After 2008 Matt Cassel threw for more than 20 TDs one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had a comp% of more than 60% one time
After 2008 Matt Cassel had an int% of less than 3% one time.

But hey he was named as a Pro Bowl alternate one time...

I mean, yeah, Cassel was never anything more than average and he had an average year in 2008.

I still don’t understand the fascination with “Belichick went 11-5 with him”. The Patriots went 11-5 with the easiest schedule. They also had a LOADED roster. I don’t think there’s a single person that would attribute 2007 18-1 season to just Brady’s dominant season. The OL, WRs, Defense were all dominant. When you place a game manager in Cassel did anyone really think they would go from 16-0 to 1-15? Cassel had 21/11 ratio and was sacked more than Brady ever was. He was no where near the player.

If you plug 2008 Cassel onto the 2019 Pats, 2010 Pats, etc. does anyone actually think they would win 11 games?

 

[XLIX]

Sure if you don't look at any other metrics and you forget that they played only something like 5 good teams that year.

When evaluating a defense over the course of a season, there is no metric more important than the total number of points given up.

When Tom Brady got injured in 2008, the team won 5 fewer games. Sure looks like that's about the same number we will be seeing this year as well. Some people think that's just a coincidence.

 

[amfootball]

When evaluating a defense over the course of a season, there is no metric more important than the total number of points given up.

When Tom Brady got injured in 2008, the team won 5 fewer games. Sure looks like that's about the same number we will be seeing this year as well. Some people think that's just a coincidence.

Exactly. That is what an elite QB is worth. 5 wins.

 

[amfootball]

Tampa's kicker, punter and long snapper are on the reserve covid list. I think that is 5 days so they can play Sunday as long as they don't test positive.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

When evaluating a defense over the course of a season, there is no metric more important than the total number of points given up.

When Tom Brady got injured in 2008, the team won 5 fewer games. Sure looks like that's about the same number we will be seeing this year as well. Some people think that's just a coincidence.

As soon as Bill gets an elite QB, you can add another 5 wins then. This year I anticipate the Pats to go 7-9, with losses to MIami and Buffalo and a win against the Jets. An elite QB would get us to 12-4.

 

[XLIX]

As soon as Bill gets an elite QB, you can add another 5 wins then. This year I anticipate the Pats to go 7-9, with losses to MIami and Buffalo and a win against the Jets. An elite QB would get us to 12-4.

Even an elite QB isn't as good as the greatest of all time.

BTW, that's funny how you make it sound so easy. Tell us, who are all the elite QB's tripping over themselves to come to New England?