OT: Ninkovich on Mac Jones

[VrabelJr]

Nobody is cutting him any slack and he is a 2nd string.

If anyone is cutting anyone slack here it's the former HC/GM who is no longer employed as a HC in the league.

I mean he did win 6 Super Bowls. What did Mac win?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Big man in a little coat !! … no need to pick on the scrawny kid

Agree...but Mac is very pick-able

 

[catent]

I think there's two parts to Mac Jones' downfall here.

1) I think he was very physically limited. I don't think he ever had a high ceiling. I think his starting point in terms of mentally understanding the game was pretty far ahead of where most rookies are. But his physical limitations gave defenses an advantage because his lack of mobility or ability to make tough throws allowed them to throw more at him and just physically dominate him.

2) The personnel around him and coaching staff they hired to develop him were subpar. The coaching staff literally didn't have experience on offense in that second year. I really can't put into words how asinine, ridiculous, preposterous, etc. that was. I'm as big a fan of BB as there probably is on this board, I don't think I've ever seen a more obviously and thoroughly terrible decision by a coach than that. It's one thing for a decision to not work out or be misguided but usually there's some logic in it. There was no logic in that. Even with a resume as great as BB's is, it wouldn't have been out of line to fire him solely for that decision because it might be the dumbest coaching move in recent memory. It legitimately pointed to incompetence. And beyond that, the personnel wasn't strong enough to make up for a QB that had limitations. Not even close.

I think Mac was able to see as clearly as we were how dumb the coaching decisions were and the relationship never recovered from that point. Honestly, it might have been for the better because if they had hired an actual offensive coordinator and did a decent job of adding talent around him, I fear he might have ended up Daniel Jones where the team and player were juuuuuuuuuuuuust good enough where you keep the relationship going until it eventually fizzles out like that situaton will.

There is wrong information in here. The Patriots did in fact have coaches on the 2022 offensive staff with previous offensive coaching experience. Much of it? No. But to say "the coaching staff literally didn't have experience on offense in that second year" is factually untrue.

Nick Caley, the TE coach, had been a mainstay for quite awhile.
Billy Yates, the OL coach, had been there for a season prior.
Troy Brown began in coaching roles with the team in 2020.
Evan Rothstein, who joined the team in 2021, had previously served as an offensive assistant with the Lions.

And let us not forget that upon getting the head coaching role, Jerod Mayo proceeded to promote his brother, Deron, to head strength and condition coach. I saw very little outcry about that decision at the time.

 

[sb1]

I mean he did win 6 Super Bowls. What did Mac win?

More recently than that he has a .426 record as a HC after losing the GOAT QB. So we shouldn't assume that every single move Bill makes such as these two coaching hires were the right moves and therefore it's 100% on the player why he flamed out here.

Nobody is cutting Jones any slack, they're calling it like they see it. He had some terrible coaching here after his first season and he needed the opposite. Doubtful Maye's career trajectory would be that much different if he was put in the exact same situation.

 

[Vindicate]

The fact that Mac couldn't parlay the misery into an opportunity to be miserable together and to fight as a team says it all. That's what facing adversity for the first time looks like. We all have that moment, you just hope that your starting NFL QB has endured it before and knows how to guide others through.

It's easy to point out all that was wrong, it's up to your QB to be the one person pulling all the stops to help you see what little improvement the there is. Especially when BB is your coach because he ain't gonna do it (and personally, I don't think that's the role of a coach of an NFL team).

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I can't believe you even wrote this

I wrote what I wrote. Standing on business as the results are what they are.

Looking at the final seasons for BB, only the most fervent Bill apologist could find a way to make it anyone’s fault but his own.

It’s the “why” that is murky.

Especially making Patricia OC…bus drivers in Boston knew that was an awful idea the moment it was announced.

 

[203Pat]

I wrote what I wrote. Standing on business as the results are what they are.

Looking at the final seasons for BB, only the most fervent Bill apologist could find a way to make it anyone’s fault but his own.

It’s the “why” that is murky.

Especially making Patricia OC…bus drivers in Boston knew that was an awful idea the moment it was announced.

Bill was constantly praised (and rightly so) for being ahead of the curve and his "Year too early is better than a year too late" philosophy. Bill always operated under a "What have you done for me lately?" way of doing business but some on this board think he deserved a lifetime contract to be head coach in spite of the way the post Brady years panned out.

 

[vicspats]

This.

I will always be grateful for what Bill did for us.

BUT…given the facts and results of really even going back to Brady’s final season, we are left with only two possibilities:

1. Bill completely lost his fastball and became incompetent nearly overnight via either age or extreme hubris.

2. He mentally checked out, and borderline intentionally destroyed the team to screw over Kraft for some reason.


I have no honest idea which it was, but can’t really argue that something was very rotten at 1PP for several years at the end.

I vote #2

 

[vicspats]

I mean he did win 6 Super Bowls. What did Mac win?

3rd place at a mall beauty contest when he was 13

 

[Captain Cliche]

He still sucks and folds under pressure:

 

[Free_Pacman]

Hey, do you guys remember when Mac Jones hobbled off the field, bawling his eyes out over a sprained ankle and the majority of this board poo-pooh’ed any criticism of his reaction as if it was totally normal for an NFL player to cry over a rolled ankle? Fun times.

 

[upstater1]

Nobody is cutting him any slack and he is a 2nd string.

If anyone is cutting anyone slack here it's the former HC/GM who is no longer employed as a HC in the league.

How is BB cutting him slack? It was actually written in an article he wanted to move on from Mac. It would've been the right decision to do so.

But, I think you're cutting Mac way too much slack by talking about how he was ruined. Mac was never going to be even a putrid starter in this league. He is way worse than that.

 

[upstater1]

I wrote what I wrote. Standing on business as the results are what they are.

Looking at the final seasons for BB, only the most fervent Bill apologist could find a way to make it anyone’s fault but his own.

It’s the “why” that is murky.

Especially making Patricia OC…bus drivers in Boston knew that was an awful idea the moment it was announced.

Deranged. He purposely sabotaged the team? The other option is even wackier.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Hey, do you guys remember when Mac Jones hobbled off the field, bawling his eyes out over a sprained ankle and the majority of this board poo-pooh’ed any criticism of his reaction as if it was totally normal for an NFL player to cry over a rolled ankle? Fun times.

He cried?

 

[Clonamery]

He cried?

Hey, it was a painful ankle sprain. One of those high ankle sprains, you know, where you have to have ice it. On and off every 15 minutes, you know. And take advil.

 

[sb1]

How is BB cutting him slack? It was actually written in an article he wanted to move on from Mac. It would've been the right decision to do so.

I don't think there was any definitive report or quote from BB that said he wanted to move on from Jones. Also as poor as he was playing he was still the best QB on the roster so it's not like they had options.

And like I said before BB drafted him. So either the coaching took a high floor low ceiling prospect and made him terrible, or BB drafted a kid in the first round that never had what it took to play in the NFL. Either way - not a great look for BB.

But, I think you're cutting Mac way too much slack by talking about how he was ruined. Mac was never going to be even a putrid starter in this league. He is way worse than that.

He certainly wasn't helped by the abysmal coaching he had in his final 2 seasons here.

 

[sb1]

He still sucks and folds under pressure:

Jones's main problem is still his mechanics. Kinda the same problem Tebow had and look what happened to him.

The coaching he got here failed to fix it.

 

[Clonamery]

Bill was constantly praised (and rightly so) for being ahead of the curve and his "Year too early is better than a year too late" philosophy. Bill always operated under a "What have you done for me lately?" way of doing business but some on this board think he deserved a lifetime contract to be head coach in spite of the way the post Brady years panned out.

Nobody thinks that except you lot that blame only BB.

 

[Clonamery]

Jones's main problem is still his mechanics. Kinda the same problem Tebow had and look what happened to him.

The coaching he got here failed to fix it.

He's lacking "Comfort in the Pocket". That ain't mechanics....that's Tonyeasonitis.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Hey, it was a painful ankle sprain. One of those high ankle sprains, you know, where you have to have ice it. On and off every 15 minutes, you know. And take advil.

OT:
When I worked on the oilfield, I slid down an icy support and broke a rib on a lifting eye.
The nurse told me I wasn't in much pain and probably didn't break a rib.
Basically, she called me a ****y and gave me a bag of Advil.

Shortly after that, I switched companies and had to get a physical. The doctor said I had a bone callus and had indeed broken a rib.
He offered to file me for workman's comp. I said, "No thanks. I just wanted to know I wasn't being a ****y."