PatsFans.com - Mobile
PatsFans.com
Search

OT - MVP award

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
Status
Not open for further replies.

SacPete1

On the Game Day Roster
First off, I don't really care that much for this award just like who goes to the pro bowl and partially because of the lack of defined criteria for it.

Each voter has their own basis and if you want to define most valuable in the literal sense, then the QB position has a huge advantage over every other position and then its just looking at stats for the most part. I hear the media say things like "if you took him off the team, they would win half of their games" when discussing a QB but the reality is you could say that about at least 10 QB's so that criteria doesn't separate them.

Then of course you have the voter bias at play such as when Manning received a vote the year he was out and the Colts were terrible. Of course, they would have won alot more with him but that vote should have promoted a review of the award and at least a name change to most outstanding performance since surely it was never intended to be awarded to a player who never played.
Plus in Manning's case, he's won it 5 0r 6 times now and has only one Super bowl. That in itself should distinguish him as the best regular season QB ever..... which ultimately implies a criticism and a career deficiency.

If it was truly awarded to most outstanding performer, every position would at least be reviewed and although stats are always going to be significant criteria, how a player performs relative to others at the same position group could separate that player.

For instance, from what I've read it sounds like Rodgers is the favorite and yet his stats are very similar to Brady's so he really hasn't distinguished himself and with only 2 games to go, they will likely finish with similar stats.
Murray has a huge lead in rushing but Bell's receiving numbers combined with his rushing would present an argument.
Tackles, Int's and sacks are pretty competitive although you could easily look at the play of Watt and argue that he has separated himself from others in the front 7 based on his all around play.
WR's are pretty close as well.
I really can't tell you about Olinemen.

So this leaves us with the TE spot and although I may be biased given I watch the Patriots every week, I still watch alot of other games so I can at least observe performances.
Gronk in my view has clearly separated himself from other TE's with his statistics but even more so with his blocking. This latter really doesn't show up on the stat sheet so it requires some viewing and comparison but look at the other top TE's statistically in the league and watch their blocking performance and its not even close.
Graham, Thomas, Gates, Bennett, Olsen are big receivers and don't play with their hand down nearly as much as Gronk. Plus ask a guy to block a LB or DL one play and then run a seam route the next and we are talking about a pretty special talent when you can do both as good if not better than any other player at your position.

Do I think they will ever review and change this criteria? No. But it would be nice if at least someone mainstream who has a vote thought outside the box and actually wrote about the basis for his vote.
 

dales804

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
MVP is basically the QB on the "best" team now. Before last week's performance by Rodgers I had him as the run-away. I still think he gets it unless he has another bad game. But anyone who has watched any Patriots game with a healthy Gronk vs. one without, can clearly see the huge difference he makes. When he's out, this offense becomes very average. When he's in they become tops in the league. I'm sure he'll get some votes for MVP but my money is still on Rodgers to run away with it though I'd love to be surprised.
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
It's an award that's out of my control so I don't spend much time pondering it. All I know is there is no QB or TE I'd rather have for this team than ours. You can argue the results until your blue in the face but it doesn't change who won.
 

SalemPats

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I agree it's a mess. I do like the idea of MVP per position (i know we have all pro and offensive players), but maybe QB, OL, RB/WR/TE/FB on offense and D-Lineman/LB/Secondary MVPs would be cool. For MVP, how do you judge Watt vs Brady vs Rodgers vs Murray vs Gronk?

QB - Rodgers vs Brady. Both are deserving, i think Rodgers wins this based on his ridiculous stats
OL - That's a hard one, perhaps Peters on Philly
RB/WR/TE/FB - Gronk vs Murray. I give it to Gronk

DL - Watt
LB - Dumervil, Miller, etc... this is a tough one
Secondary - Revis vs Earl Thomas. I give it to Revis
 

doesntmatter1

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Just give it to Watt already. Manning has been off his game. Rodgers has had two bad performances against Seattle and the Bills. And Brady had a rough start plus still is struggling to hit deep passes. Demarco and Leveon Bell owe most of their season to their line, especially Zach Martin and DeCastro.

Imho 1-Watt 2-Gronk 3- Rodgers
 

PatsWickedPissah

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The only thing against Watt is that despite his alleged MVPness his team's performance has sucked.

I would have no problem were he to win the award.

2nd choice would be Rogers, then losing the SB to the Pats to put the award in its proper perspective once again
 

Froob

Independent Investigator & pliable af
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Watt is great but he just isn't as valuable as a top QB and that's just the nature of the game. Nobody would take Watt over Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, ect. I just don't really agree with him winning MVP.
 

hambone1818

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
MVP and non-QB MVP, separate the two. I'd never argue that, as incredible as Gronk is, as dominating as Watt is, that I'd take either of them over an elite, top-5 QB. Would you rather have, say, Watt and Tannehill (an average QB, not gonna hurt you but not gonna carry a team) or Jarius Wynn (an average DE, won't dominate but plays the position decently) and Brady or Rodgers? I'm taking the QB every day of the week...you can scheme around your defensive strengths, you can't scheme around a bad QB...there's a reason the best QB's consistently make the playoffs and often reach the SB, it's VERY rare for a top-3 QB to miss the playoffs, you can't say the same about even a generational defensive talent like Watt.

So that said, there should be a 'most valuable' award designated for QB's, and one for the rest of the league. Right now, I'd give the QB award to Rodgers--more consistent this season than Brady, better overall numbers and I think the Patriots defense would make them a respectable team without Brady while the Packers would be a flat-out bad team without Rodgers. And the non-QB award, to me, would go to Watt. As dominant as Gronk is he also, to a degree, relies on a great QB getting him the ball. Watt does it all on his own, he's an absolute terror who makes a below-average defense one of the best in the league.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
When Gronk is in, Brady has someone to throw to. When Gronk is out, Brady wigs while waiting for LaFell, Amendola and Edelman to get open.
 

TBR

Pro Bowl Player
I just don't see a clear-cut favourite. Rodgers, Brady and Gronk are my top 3 (I know it sounds biased but I truly believe that)

If Houston was in the playoffs I could see Watt getting it. Otherwise - no. I dont' see how you can give it to him if the Texans don't make the playoffs. "Thank God for JJ Watt! We went 8-8 this year!"

I think a co-MVP with Brady and Gronk would be very fitting. Unless Rodgers goes off in the last 2 weeks.
 
Last edited:

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
No one whose team does not make the playoffs should win MVP.

Right now it is Rodgers. If GB somehow gets left out give it to Brady.

Watt is having a good year but 7 and 7 doesn't cut it. I know it is unfair but that is the nature of the award. It is how valuable you are not how good you are.

Murray should not get it cause lets be honest. Romo matters a lot more to that team than Murray. If Romo went down they would not be in the playoffs. If Murray went down they still are IMO.
 

Ice_Ice_Brady

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
ESPN had a roundtable discussion article this morning about the NFL MVP. Candidates were Rodgers, Brady, Murray, Watt, and Manning.

Voters:

Rodgers- 27%
Watt- 27%
Brady- 25%
Murray- 18%
Manning- 3%

ESPN, of course, is continuing to do everything possible to keep Manning's credentials from being overlooked. I think they are going to start a marketing campaign to get #18 his sixth MVP.

The real deal is that Rodgers will almost certainly win MVP. He is something like 1/4 on betting websites. Brady is a distant second at around 6/1. Only way Brady wins it is if he finishes very strong statistically and Rodgers plays badly/loses to Detroit in the last game of the season (in GB.)

It would have been interesting had the Patriots prevailed in Green Bay, whether or not that would boost Brady above Rodgers despite a big numeric gap. I would like to see, just once, a player win the award without gaudy numbers but by putting his team on his back and scraping out some gritty wins.

Or, they may just let ESPN's staff vote, in which case Peyton Manning is the second unanimous MVP in the history of the award.

In my opinion, both Rob Gronkowski and Darrelle Revis are stronger candidates than DeMarco Murray.
 

Pessimistic Pete

In the Starting Line-Up
Like I posted in the other thread, Revis is more valuable than Watt, I'm sick of all the Watt hype.

Not to mention the Texans have the lowest Strength-of-Victory (.265) in the NFL

Titans
Titans
jaguars
Raiders
Redskins
Browns
Bills

Guy isn't even the most valuable player in the AFC South. If the Colts/Texans swapped Luck and Watt the Texans would be winning the AFC South for the next decade instead of the Colts.

Anyways, as far as Brady vs Rodgers, the only way Brady gets it is if the Packers somehow don't win the NFC North, which I see as highly improbable.
 

ALP

Pro Bowl Player
A watt-gronk share would be awesome!

I'm pretty sure no DL or TE has ever got it right?
 

Salva135

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Pats-Packers was really the MVP Bowl. If Brady had dominated in GB, he'd be the frontrunner. Just didn't work out. As others have said, the only way Rodgers loses this award is if they screw themselves over the last two games, especially in Detroit.

I also think that the voters would love to give Rodgers a 2nd MVP award, as he has been largely ignored in the Brady-Manning hype. And I wouldn't complain. Rodgers is freaking awesome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top