Cool Link OT: Every Teams Mt Rushmore, Including the Pats ... New & Improved with a Poll ??

[The Gr8est]

He was faster than Law. Better technique.
Better ballhawk. All you need to know about Haynes is that like Deion, qbs would just never throw to whoever he was covering, which was always the #1 receiver

It took about 3-4 games before QBs stopped throwing at Haynes.

 

[The Gr8est]

It's amazing that you can type with your head that far up your rear.
That the poll doesn't include Tippett is preposterous. For the benefit of those who may not understand NFL football was played here before the mid 90's; Haynes and Tippett are the best defensive players to ever take the field for the Pats. Opposing teams game planned around them and as a fan your eyes were on them every snap they were on the field

Big Sey and Law are legit HoF players but they aren't in the same class as Haynes.
Very few are.

Cannot disagree.

Too bad Ray Clayborn can’t get any love here.

He and Haynes may be the best pair of CBs in NFL history.

 

[maust]

Cannot disagree.

Too bad Ray Clayborn can’t get any love here.

He and Haynes may be the best pair of CBs in NFL history.

Haynes & Clayborn are right up there with Haynes & Hayes. Although as much as I hate to say it Ronnie Lott (in his years at corner) and Eric Wright are probably the best tandem I ever saw play together. Wright kind of reminds me of Clayborn in that they both arguably belong in the HoF, certainly both of them were better corners than LeBeau or Jimmy Johnson were and they're in the HoF. Corners have a tough time making the HoF. Hard to show great numbers when the best of them don't get thrown at often. I watched enough of Ray Clayborn to know most of the QB's who played against him were averse to throwing in his direction.

 

[Real fan 02]

They WOULD have won a SB in the Haynes era except for Ben Dreith.

I started following the team in 1986.. at age 8... some of you guys got me by 20 years... you'll have to forgive me.. I think Haynes was in Oakland by then? With Jack you up Tatum.

 

[vicspats]

I don't think so. He would have gotten more recognition, but not the LT level.

Tippet was good, very good. But LT was in a class by himself. For guys of that era, I would put Tip behind LT but ahead of just about everyone else

Agree 100%.

 

[Pape]

Best ever Coach: Bill
Best GOAT: Tom
Best ever TE: Gronk
Best ever OL: Hog

It's not really how I would have thought it to go, but if you break them down by who is the best ever to to it, then these are the guys. I wanted Law, but he's not the best CB of all time.

@Pape

i think you've pretty much nailed it...
Goat Coach - I'd go with BB, but I'm biased... if someone else wants to argue Paul Brown, you have a good debate... but PB was never a Patriot, so... eh... give me BB...

The Best to ever do it (noted the distinction - i like the way you phrased that) Brady. hands down. He started winning early. The game literally changed around him, and what did he do? Won four more. The flashier qbs now? have always had the advantage of looser rules, which emphasize scoring/passing... Tommy? plowed right thru, dominating both eras. Ball control game? No problem. Weaponized? toss up 50 td's, no problem. There really isn't anyone better.

TE: There are more prolific pass catching tight ends, there might be better blocking tight ends (i cant really think of any thought) but no one else was the complete package. And I do wonder how much more dominant Gronk might have been if he didn't have the back issue.

OL: i do think you need to separate Guard from Tackle here, and that's not a knock on Hannah, just the reality that they are two distinct positions. The only guy who rivals John Hannah is Larry Allen, who was also a dominating force on the line. What does it for me was the combo of Leon Gray & Hannah, leading the '78 Pats to 3165 yards on the ground - without a 1000 yard back! And they almost got the 3k rushing yards in 1976 as well... domination in action... everyone ate... not just emmitt smith...

@Steve102

 

[Pape]

They WOULD have won a SB in the Haynes era except for Ben Dreith.

had a shot in '76 too... the turnovers in the divisional game killed 'em...

 

[Steve102]

i think you've pretty much nailed it...
Goat Coach - I'd go with BB, but I'm biased... if someone else wants to argue Paul Brown, you have a good debate... but PB was never a Patriot, so... eh... give me BB...

The Best to ever do it (noted the distinction - i like the way you phrased that) Brady. hands down. He started winning early. The game literally changed around him, and what did he do? Won four more. The flashier qbs now? have always had the advantage of looser rules, which emphasize scoring/passing... Tommy? plowed right thru, dominating both eras. Ball control game? No problem. Weaponized? toss up 50 td's, no problem. There really isn't anyone better.

TE: There are more prolific pass catching tight ends, there might be better blocking tight ends (i cant really think of any thought) but no one else was the complete package. And I do wonder how much more dominant Gronk might have been if he didn't have the back issue.

OL: i do think you need to separate Guard from Tackle here, and that's not a knock on Hannah, just the reality that they are two distinct positions. The only guy who rivals John Hannah is Larry Allen, who was also a dominating force on the line. What does it for me was the combo of Leon Gray & Hannah, leading the '78 Pats to 3165 yards on the ground - without a 1000 yard back! And they almost got the 3k rushing yards in 1976 as well... domination in action... everyone ate... not just emmitt smith...

@Steve102

That era of the Pats doesn't get the love that it should. Leon Gray, John Hannah, Dr. Bill, Sam Adams. Stanley Morgan, Darryl Stingley, Russ Francis. Cunningham and Johnson running the ball with Grogan chucking it. They would be dominant in the current game with the current rules. Dom. In. Ant. Defensively, Mike Haynes, Tim Fox, Julius Adams, Nellie, Ray Clayborn... Sugar Bear Hamilton. I'd stack that team against any in the league today.

Different time.

 

[jmt57]

 

[jmt57]

Some interesting commentary on how the forum felt about this question ten years ago:

The New England Patriots Mt. Rushmore - Nominations Thread

This is a good time to ask this question so i will post it now, who are the four faces on the Patriot's Mt. Rushmore? People can nominate their four and we can have a final poll later to come up with the Final Four. Here are mine: Bill Belichick - The Greatest coach in NFL history. The...

www.patsfans.com

 

[maust]

I do think you need to separate Guard from Tackle here, and that's not a knock on Hannah, just the reality that they are two distinct positions. The only guy who rivals John Hannah is Larry Allen, who was also a dominating force on the line. What does it for me was the combo of Leon Gray & Hannah, leading the '78 Pats to 3165 yards on the ground - without a 1000 yard back! And they almost got the 3k rushing yards in 1976 as well... domination in action... everyone ate... not just emmitt smith...

I think the cherry on top of the Hog's greatness is illustrated by Brian Holloway's career arc. A consensus Pro Bowler playing next to Hannah Holloway was traded to the Raiders, started 8 games his 1st year there none in the 2nd and was out of the league thereafter. Leon Gray earned his money and deserved to get paid. When Holloway got paid it was earned by Hannah.

 

[jlu52]

I think the cherry on top of the Hog's greatness is illustrated by Brian Holloway's career arc. A consensus Pro Bowler playing next to Hannah Holloway was traded to the Raiders, started 8 games his 1st year there none in the 2nd and was out of the league thereafter. Leon Gray earned his money and deserved to get paid, Hannah earned Holoway's.

IMO, the best OL, all time. I watched pretty much every snap he played. It was hilarious watching defenders get out of his way

 

[maust]

IMO, the best OL, all time. I watched pretty much every snap he played. It was hilarious watching defenders get out of his way

Nailed it! There was more than one beer snorted out the nose watching Dbacks start to come up on one of those sweeps only to 'lose their footing' when the Hog was still leading the down field charge when they got there. Hell some of them didn't even do that! They just pulled up as in 'NOPE Just Ain't Doin' It! Damn those were F-U-N teams to watch, the opponents would be playing like their hair was on fire while the Pats would just pound em. They were ruthlessly methodical handing out the punishment, it was glorious.

 

[Pape]

Some interesting commentary on how the forum felt about this question ten years ago:

The New England Patriots Mt. Rushmore - Nominations Thread

This is a good time to ask this question so i will post it now, who are the four faces on the Patriot's Mt. Rushmore? People can nominate their four and we can have a final poll later to come up with the Final Four. Here are mine: Bill Belichick - The Greatest coach in NFL history. The...

www.patsfans.com

ausbacher pretty much nailed it, didn't he...

 

[jmt57]

ausbacher pretty much nailed it, didn't he...

Yes, although I do understand the sentiment of some that Mike Haynes be excluded not only for only playing half his career with the Patriots, but mostly for leaving New England to play for a hated rival.

 

[maust]

Yes, although I do understand the sentiment of some that Mike Haynes be excluded not only for only playing half his career with the Patriots, but mostly for leaving New England to play for a hated rival.

Hard to fault Haynes for the lying, ineptitude and empty pockets of the Sulivans. Haynes played out his option and with no FA at the time he sat. The Sullivans made their typical Sullivan dumbass move and surrendered his rights to the Raiders for draft picks. The Sullivans claimed after the fact that they made a 7 year contract offer that would have made Haynes the highest paid Dback in the league but the fact he came to terms in hours with (the notoriously frugal but not broke) Al Davis tells us the Sullivans were lying again, same as always. The same sort of low life cheap ass ******** that sent Francis and Gray outta town resulted in Haynes going to Oakland

 

[Tunescribe]

little bit of off season fluff... this video has put together the "Mt Rushmore" for every team in the NFL...

The Pats who made the list

Tom Brady - yup
John Hannah - yup
Rob Gronkowski - probably the most accomplished pass catcher in Pats history... Mt Rushmore worthy?
Ty Law - so Law is the best defensive player in NE history? hmmm...

Other guys who should be considered - maybe Gino? Colclough? Tippett? Bru? Big Sey? Steamer? Whigham (?yeah? fight me)... Welker? Haynes? Clayborn?

If you want to watch, its time coded to the Pats segment... (if the time code doesn't work, the "chapter" for each team is linked in the vid description)


Just in case you don't know Jim Colclough, he played wr/fl from '60-'68... and is still in the Top ten in yards & td receptions, top 15 in receptions in team history...

NFL Hall of Fame inductee Richard Seymour belongs in this poll.

 

[Pape]

NFL Hall of Fame inductee Richard Seymour belongs in this poll.

I didn't put the poll in... That was a mod edit.

The op was just a link to a video I watched on YouTube... Didn't think it would gain much traction... And here we are, 5 pages in...

So thanks to the mod who added it.

 

[maust]

I didn't put the poll in... That was a mod edit.

The op was just a link to a video I watched on 0YouTube... Didn't think it would gain much traction... And here we are, 5 pages in...

So thanks to the mod who added it.

Thanks for getting it started, it's infinitely better than the endless 'tribal feud' threads that were populating our off-season. There's an entertaining team history here in New England and it really doesn't get the play it deserves. Nothing wrong with some reminiscing and banter while we wait for something new to obsess over.

 

[jmt57]

NFL Hall of Fame inductee Richard Seymour belongs in this poll.

Yeah, it was quite difficult narrowing this down to the software maximum of ten choices.

Subtract one for the obligatory RLKAG and there's nine. I didn't want to waste a space on 'other' so I combined those two.

I wanted somebody from the sixties. Babe Parilli came to mind, but why two QBs? He could go on a Mt Rushmore of Pats QBs along with Grogan, Bledsoe and Brady, but this poll is more than that. Gino Cappelletti, Jim Nance and Houston Antwine were possibilities, but in the end I went with the OP's suggestion of Jim Colclough.

Choosing Hannah as a representative from the 70s was easy. I wanted at least a second player from that era too. There were plenty of good potential nominees: Grogan (again, no need for another QB), Steve Nelson, Stanley Morgan, Julius Adams, Raymond Clayborn, Sam Cunningham, Mack Herron, Russ Francis. In the end the choice was for Mike Haynes.

That makes four nominees, leaving six open spots. I wanted somebody from the 80s but that would leave just five from the Super Bowl era. It was difficult to not include Andre Tippett. I semi-justified that decade's omission based on Hannah playing through 1985.

The 90s gets left off this list because (a) a lot of those teams were devoid of talent, and (b) there was some carryover to the 2000s with Bruschi, McGinest and Law. Bruce Armstrong was close, but doesn't make the cut here. It was tough leaving Ben Coates off the final list.

Not including Seymour was difficult. Same goes for Vince Wilfork, Adam Vinatieri and Troy Brown. I considered Wes Welker because he was so incredibly productive, but in the end he was only a Patriot for six years, and played fewer than 100 games. Signing with Denver removed any doubt.

Based on the results thus far perhaps McGinest (and/or Law, Bruschi) should have been left off in favor of Sey, Vince, etc. The poll would have been illegitimate without BB, TB12 and Gronk, so there wasn't a whole lot of room to maneuver.



@Pape - I should have consulted with you before adding the poll, hope you don't mind.