OT: Dan Orlovsky Top 5 QB's Of All Time

[Penn State Patriot]

Dude, take a step back and read what you have said.

it makes no sense.

as for someone like Aikman, why wouldn't you look at his teams? You seem to think I am blaming him for having quality depth. I'm not. But I am aware of it. Context always matters. When they played. Who they played with. Where they played. How well they did.

im sorry but there is a difference in the NFL in the 1970's and the 1980's... between the 1990's and the 2000's. Games change. Rules change. Plan B morphing into real Free Agency. Salary caps etc.

You are all over the place, so I will make this my last post. You can have the final word, I don’t care. This is as simple as I can make my argument, so if it gets lost in translation, I can’t help you:

Quarterbacks like Bradshaw and Aikman (who you brought up) are often discredited for their accomplishments because they benefited from playing alongside talented/HOF players. I am saying that is a pretty stupid and lazy argument, considering football is a TEAM game (again, your words) and who wouldn’t want to have someone like John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Michael Irvin, Rob Gronkowski, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison to throw the ball to? Who wouldn’t want to have the Cowboys O-line of the ‘90s? Why should that take away from their legacy?

If doing more with less is the end-all for you, then I imagine you believe Elway is the greatest ever. Look at his supporting cast in the ‘80s and what he was able to do.

 

[Rob0729]

Nobody gives a **** but you're the only one defending him.

How am I defending him. I said he is wrong. Y

Clarify what you mean by talent. If you're talking just physical skills then maybe you have an argument. Yeah, Brady sucked at the NFL scouting combine. But if you're including cerebral skills in your overall meaning of talent then Brady absolutely is at the top of that list.

Also, when talking about talent, you should include the capacity to rise to the occasion in the biggest moments, which is a very rare quality and Brady has it in spades.


Putting Mahomes at #2 all-time right now is comically ignorant. But what's worse is leaving Montana out of the top 5. There's one conclusion here, Orlovsky is a moron with no credibility.

I was actually talking about his shuffleboard skills. They are off the charts. Of course I am talking about his physical skills. That is obvious.

And Mahomes has gone to what five straight AFCCGs and going to his third Super Bowl in his young six year career. Listing him in the top 5 isn’t as crazy as people are making it.

That said. I don’t agree with this list.

 

[Pape]

You are all over the place, so I will make this my last post. You can have the final word, I don’t care. This is as simple as I can make my argument, so if it gets lost in translation, I can’t help you:

Quarterbacks like Bradshaw and Aikman (who you brought up) are often discredited for their accomplishments because they benefited from playing alongside talented/HOF players. I am saying that is a pretty stupid and lazy argument, considering football is a TEAM game (again, your words) and who wouldn’t want to have someone like John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Michael Irvin, Rob Gronkowski, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison to throw the ball to? Who wouldn’t want to have the Cowboys O-line of the ‘90s? Why should that take away from their legacy?

If doing more with less is the end-all for you, then I imagine you believe Elway is the greatest ever. Look at his supporting cast in the ‘80s and what he was able to do.

Here is what you are completely missing - nothing we say takes away from their legacies. Those are cemented in the annals of football history.

Again I ask - rank your top ten, and tell me how and why you made the decisions you did.

You want to try and rip my decision making process, lets see yours.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You are all over the place, so I will make this my last post. You can have the final word, I don’t care. This is as simple as I can make my argument, so if it gets lost in translation, I can’t help you:

Quarterbacks like Bradshaw and Aikman (who you brought up) are often discredited for their accomplishments because they benefited from playing alongside talented/HOF players. I am saying that is a pretty stupid and lazy argument, considering football is a TEAM game (again, your words) and who wouldn’t want to have someone like John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Michael Irvin, Rob Gronkowski, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison to throw the ball to? Who wouldn’t want to have the Cowboys O-line of the ‘90s? Why should that take away from their legacy?

If doing more with less is the end-all for you, then I imagine you believe Elway is the greatest ever. Look at his supporting cast in the ‘80s and what he was able to do.

In my list, I had Bradshaw ranked around 12-16 (that’s all-time, including the 1920s, probably top 10 of SB era) and Aikman in the 22-26 range (probably 15th range of SB era.). I tried to balance championships, winning pct, accolades, and era-adjusted stats.

Two different QBs.

Bradshaw was lower in the era-adjusted stats and also accolades areas. Contemporaries like Staubach, Tarkenton, etc. were quite a bit better. But he was still a very good QB, being a pro bowl level guy, one of the league’s better ones even though clearly not the best. He won an MVP, 3X pro bowl, 2X SB MVP.

I found Aikman to be tremendously overrated in the analysis. He simply was a real “system” quarterback. Yes, I remember him in the SBs too and seeing how accurate and clutch he was, but he really was a cog in a wheel. Slightly above average quarterback with one of the best supporting casts ever, was never forced to throw the ball much but still never had the era-adjusted efficiency even close to someone like Starr, who would be a good comp otherwise.

 

[venecol]

How am I defending him. I said he is wrong.

And Mahomes has gone to what five straight AFCCGs and going to his third Super Bowl in his young six year career. Listing him in the top 5 isn’t as crazy as people are making it.

That said. I don’t agree with this list.

 

[Rob0729]

Thanks for you lack of reading skills. I said in the top 5, not #2. If you want him higher than Marino, I can see the argument. I think he could end up #2, but he isn’t close now.

I am not defending Orlovsky. I am countering the people who are mocking that Mahomes isn’t even close to the top QBs in NFL history.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Tell me this...

do you discount Manning's SB win because he was literally carried across the line by his epic defense in Denver?

do you discount elis wins because that gints defense won the day (twice)?

do you discount Joe Flacco because he played with one of the best defenses ever?

Did you complain when I discounted the accomplishments of Joe Montana early on in the Brady / Montana wars when the skill levels of players like Jerry Rice were brought up?

so to answer your question, **** yeah they get dinged because of the talent surrounding them.

Okay, talent helps.

But it doesn't make the quarterback.

A guy can step up and get the job done.

Flacco, Rypien, even McMahon.

So some title teams relied more on their QB (Us - especially the last three) or less (Dilfer, Stafford).

An otherwise talented team can be done in with an inferior quarterback. Are Marc Wilson, Eason, Bulger etc. crappy? Compared to the great ones who could lead the same team to a title, yes.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Did what 3-0? This is why I’m a little confused. Bottom line, my point was if you gave me Elway/Young/Kelly/Favre/Marino/Fouts/Aikman/Manning/Rodgers in their prime, I’m feeling pretty good about my chances that day.

Me too, if I'm playing against Neil O'Donnell

 

[Pape]

Okay, talent helps.

yes it does.

But it doesn't make the quarterback.

I never said it did, but it helps. It should be one of the factors considered.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

In my list, I had Bradshaw ranked around 12-16 (that’s all-time, including the 1920s, probably top 10 of SB era) and Aikman in the 22-26 range (probably 15th range of SB era.). I tried to balance championships, winning pct, accolades, and era-adjusted stats.

Two different QBs.

Bradshaw was lower in the era-adjusted stats and also accolades areas. Contemporaries like Staubach, Tarkenton, etc. were quite a bit better. But he was still a very good QB, being a pro bowl level guy, one of the league’s better ones even though clearly not the best. He won an MVP, 3X pro bowl, 2X SB MVP.

I found Aikman to be tremendously overrated in the analysis. He simply was a real “system” quarterback. Yes, I remember him in the SBs too and seeing how accurate and clutch he was, but he really was a cog in a wheel. Slightly above average quarterback with one of the best supporting casts ever, was never forced to throw the ball much but still never had the era-adjusted efficiency even close to someone like Starr, who would be a good comp otherwise.

TB12 the First said their offense revolved around Franco, as it should have. And Aikman's rightfully focused on Emmitt. Helps to have the ground game take the pressure off.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

QBs who have made to either 5 NFL Championship games (pre SB) or 5 Conference Championship games (SB era)

Sammy Baugh
Sid Luckman
Otto Graham
Bart Starr
Johnny Unitas
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
John Elway
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Donovan McNabb (edit, thanks @TB12TheGoat )
Brett Favre (edit, thanks @TB12TheGoat )
Peyton Manning (edit, thanks @TB12TheGoat )
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes

Congrats to Patrick Mahomes, the 18th player in league history, and 7th player since 2007, to accomplish this unprecedented feat. The rest of these guys don’t count because skillz.

 

[venecol]

I am not defending Orlovsky. I am countering the people who are mocking that Mahomes isn’t even close to the top QBs in NFL history.

People are actually mocking Orlovsky not Mahomes.

Look Rob we all know that you're on Team Orlovsky. He's your go to guy when it comes to QB play. You've made posts of his tweets more times than I can remember. That's perfectly fine. You're his #1 fan. Own it man. There's nothing wrong with it. If you feel he's being mocked, you have the right to defend your dude. I'm OK with it. Really.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

QBs who have made to either 5 NFL Championship games (pre SB) or 5 Conference Championship games (SB era)

Sammy Baugh
Sid Luckman
Otto Graham
Bart Starr
Johnny Unitas
Terry Bradshaw
Ken Stabler
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
John Elway
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes

Congrats to Patrick Mahomes, the 15th player in league history, to accomplish this unprecedented feat. The rest of these guys don’t count because skillz.

it’s honestly already more nauseating than the Manning and Rodgers talk we heard for all those years

edit: I think you missed Manning. so Mahomes is 16th lol

Manning had 2003, 2006, 2009, 2013, 2015

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How am I defending him. I said he is wrong. Y


I was actually talking about his shuffleboard skills. They are off the charts. Of course I am talking about his physical skills. That is obvious.

And Mahomes has gone to what five straight AFCCGs and going to his third Super Bowl in his young six year career. Listing him in the top 5 isn’t as crazy as people are making it.

That said. I don’t agree with this list.

Where did Donovan McNabb rank all-time after playing in 4 straight NFC Championship Games and winning his first in 2004? Top 8?

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Where did Donovan McNabb rank all-time after playing in 4 straight NFC Championship Games and winning his first in 2004? Top 8?

you just reminded me of 2 more

Favre
1995, 1996, 1997, 2007, 2009

McNabb
2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Just to reiterate after further research, since 2007, seven quarterbacks have played in at least five conference championship games: Brady, Manning, McNabb, Favre, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Mahomes.

Six of them (all except McNab) have played in at least five conference championship games and won a Super Bowl.

Four of them have played in at least five conference championship games, won at least one Super Bowl, won at least one Super Bowl MVP, and have won multiple regular season MVP awards. Favre didn't win a SB MVP but won three regular season MVPs. So fair to say, making 5 conference championships and winning a crap load of awards is the norm for a modern superstar QB.

Again, that is since 2007 when Brady played in his fifth AFCCG.

This is not a historical outlier, and arguably not an outlier of the last 15 years.

 

[Rob0729]

People are actually mocking Orlovsky not Mahomes.

Look Rob we all know that you're on Team Orlovsky. He's your go to guy when it comes to QB play. You've made posts of his tweets more times than I can remember. That's perfectly fine. You're his #1 fan. Own it man. There's nothing wrong with it. If you feel he's being mocked, you have the right to defend your dude. I'm OK with it. Really.

Yawn! You really think you are clever with this schtick.

 

[Disco Volante]

This **** isn't going to stop

 

[crawhammer]

I am not defending Orlovsky. I am countering the people who are mocking that Mahomes isn’t even close to the top QBs in NFL history.

Orlovsky has Mahomes at #2 all-time. Not just "close to the top" but #2. Which is outrageous.

Orlovsky doesn't have Montana in his top 5 all-time. While including 0 Lombardi's Marino. Which is totally outrageous.

Orlovsky's list is #1 on the worst list of all-time QB rankings that I've ever seen.

 

[Bruins29]

This **** isn't going to stop

It’s pretty simple. If you think manning is the GOAT you should kill yourself, slowly

The pain Brady has caused people the last 20 years (and I could wax poetic on it for hours with a rant of names that would make Bill Bellichick envious) makes every minute worth living

To crown mahones the goat if he won another one just shows the sheer agony these people live every day over Brady’s greatness

The only thing that would be better is to hear these incel losers cry more in person after I tell them to their face how their wife/girlfriend thinks about Tom Brady when they have to have sex with these ugly slobs

That is assuming these clowns could get any woman

Should I keep going or do you get what i sayn