OT : Carson Wentz to Washington

[HetfieldFogerty]

It’s all a matter of perspective. I’ve seen some saying that Indy are the big losers because they turned a first round pick into a 3rd round pick in 22 (the net result of the two trades). That’s true. But, given that the 1st and 3rd rounders they gave to Philly for Wentz were a sunk cost, getting two 3rds and having Washington take his whole salary is s huge win for Indy. Dolts were huge losers when they were duped into taking Wentz last year, and they’re huge winners for duping the Commanders this year. Now, if only they had a QB, lol.

 

[crawhammer]

9 out of 14 were below average.
Making excuses that 23rd was an improvement is silly.
Most coaches have some level of success. The body of work says it Kyle shanahan runs your offense it will be below average about twice as often as above average. That is not good.
I can only deal with results. If he improves his results then I would adjust my opinion.
Not sure what Belichick has to do with this other than you reaching for a made up lifeline as your argument drowns.

Who's talking about 23rd?? Every offense he worked with for more than one season improved... he got all of them into the top 10 and three into the top 5.

You're just flat out ignoring that KS the OC coached in two Super Bowls and KS the HC has been to a Super Bowl and another conference championship. These are not meaningless accomplishments.

I'm mentioning Belichick because he's had 9 seasons with quarterbacks other than Brady and he has 1 playoff win to show for it. Shanahan in only 2 full seasons with Garoppolo is 4-2 in the playoffs. Shanahan has done a lot more with a lesser quarterback than Belichick ever has. I think that counts for something.

 

[Ring 6]

Who's talking about 23rd?? Every offense he worked with for more than one season improved... he got all of them into the top 10 and three into the top 5.

You're just flat out ignoring that KS the OC coached in two Super Bowls and KS the HC has been to a Super Bowl and another conference championship. These are not meaningless accomplishments.

I'm mentioning Belichick because he's had 9 seasons with quarterbacks other than Brady and he has 1 playoff win to show for it. Shanahan in only 2 full seasons with Garoppolo is 4-2 in the playoffs. Shanahan has done a lot more with a lesser quarterback than Belichick ever has. I think that counts for something.

I’m ignoring that he went to 2 SBs as a coordinator, because……. He didn’t.
Washington 25,26,4,23
3 out of 4 years were awful. One good year out of 4 then reverting right back isn’t improvement.
SF 20,21,2,21,13
Are you telling me being a top 5 offense one out of 5 years and 20 or worse 3 out of 5 years is good? Seriously?


You are listing accomplishments as of mediocre coaches accomplish nothing. In 14 years he should have accomplished something but the body of work says that if Kyle Shanahan is running your offense you are almost twice as likely to be below average than above average.
You excuse making that he is supposed to suck because the QB he hand selected is bad in your opinion is just the kind of loser mentality that causes people to overrate a guy who is below average 9 out of 14 years.

 

[crawhammer]

I’m ignoring that he went to 2 SBs as a coordinator, because……. He didn’t.
Washington 25,26,4,23
3 out of 4 years were awful. One good year out of 4 then reverting right back isn’t improvement.
SF 20,21,2,21,13
Are you telling me being a top 5 offense one out of 5 years and 20 or worse 3 out of 5 years is good? Seriously?


You are listing accomplishments as of mediocre coaches accomplish nothing. In 14 years he should have accomplished something but the body of work says that if Kyle Shanahan is running your offense you are almost twice as likely to be below average than above average.
You excuse making that he is supposed to suck because the QB he hand selected is bad in your opinion is just the kind of loser mentality that causes people to overrate a guy who is below average 9 out of 14 years.

Regarding the Super Bowls, he was calling the offensive plays in SB 51 and SB 54... that's twice. Both offenses were really good in those seasons... ranking 2nd in yards and 1st in points in 2016 and 4th in yards and 2nd in points in 2019.

If you're just focusing on total yards then yes his offenses are inconsistent (although he left ATL after they ranked 2nd). His offenses have a much better track record when looking at scoring, which is more important, but there's some inconsistency there too. Look, I don't think he's a HOF coordinator, I just think he's better than awful and probably closer to good than bad. I think Garoppolo is a mediocre quarterback, which limits the ceiling of your offense, yet Shanahan has gotten decent production from his offense with Garoppolo starting. They were one arrant throw from Garoppolo away from winning a Super Bowl, so Shanahan was doing something right.

 

[Ring 6]

Regarding the Super Bowls, he was calling the offensive plays in SB 51 and SB 54... that's twice. Both offenses were really good in those seasons... ranking 2nd in yards and 1st in points in 2016 and 4th in yards and 2nd in points in 2019.

If you're just focusing on total yards then yes his offenses are inconsistent (although he left ATL after they ranked 2nd). His offenses have a much better track record when looking at scoring, which is more important, but there's some inconsistency there too. Look, I don't think he's a HOF coordinator, I just think he's better than awful and probably closer to good than bad. I think Garoppolo is a mediocre quarterback, which limits the ceiling of your offense, yet Shanahan has gotten decent production from his offense with Garoppolo starting. They were one arrant throw from Garoppolo away from winning a Super Bowl, so Shanahan was doing something right.

You send he went to 2 SBs as OC and another as HC. That is wrong.
I never disputed those 2 good seasons. But he has coached 14 years.

His track record with scoring, which is all that matters and all I’ve been taking about, stinks. 9 out of 14 years below average. How is that a good track record by any means?

I didn’t say he was awful I said he was mediocre. You said he was good.

Question for you: who coaches Garappolo?
Isn’t he responsible for getting better play out of him? He hand picked him, and chose to ride him. If Garaoppolo sucks and is your excuse for Shanahans mediocrity, then he did it to himself.

 

[crawhammer]

I didn’t say he was awful I said he was mediocre. You said he was good.

We'll just have to leave it there; I don't think we're closing the gap.

Question for you: who coaches Garappolo?
Isn’t he responsible for getting better play out of him? He hand picked him, and chose to ride him. If Garaoppolo sucks and is your excuse for Shanahans mediocrity, then he did it to himself.

Did he? Or was that more Lynch's decision? I'm not saying Garoppolo accounts for all negativity toward Shanahan; I'm saying Garoppolo is limited which accounts for why SF fell short in SB 54... it was obvious watching as that 4th quarter unfolded.

You could say the same thing about Belichick I suppose... he hand picked Testaverde and in part it led to his undoing in Cleveland. Cam Newton in 2020... how did that work out? Hell, Belichick literally picked Garoppolo. It's not easy winning with a mediocre quarterback. Shanahan was a whisker away from winning a Super Bowl with one, that shows me something at least.

 

[Ring 6]

We'll just have to leave it there; I don't think we're closing the gap.


Did he? Or was that more Lynch's decision? I'm not saying Garoppolo accounts for all negativity toward Shanahan; I'm saying Garoppolo is limited which accounts for why SF fell short in SB 54... it was obvious watching as that 4th quarter unfolded.

You could say the same thing about Belichick I suppose... he hand picked Testaverde and in part it led to his undoing in Cleveland. Cam Newton in 2020... how did that work out? Hell, Belichick literally picked Garoppolo. It's not easy winning with a mediocre quarterback. Shanahan was a whisker away from winning a Super Bowl with one, that shows me something at least.

How did Testaverde lead yo his undoing when it ended because the owner pulled the plug?
If Belichick kept newton for 5 years, it would be moronic to make excuses that belichick doesn’t deserve blame for the offense sucking for those 5 years.
Newton was here because he was the only qb who would play for piddling money in a rebuild year when we didn’t have any.
Shanahan had plenty of opportunity to find someone else (including Brady reportedly) and chose Jimmy. It’s like saying you can’t blame a guy for being unhappy because he married a bltch? Whose fault is that?

Many not do good coaches made it to a SB and fell short. Again I’m talking about a 14 year body of work, that includes that season. You can’t negate the body of work with one season unless your idea of a good coach is someone who sucks most of the time but has a good year.

 

[crawhammer]

How did Testaverde lead yo his undoing when it ended because the owner pulled the plug?

Belichick brought in Testaverde as his franchise quarterback. It didn't work out at all, it ruined his reputation there, and the team was in a free fall by the end of the 1995 season... they finished out the season on a 2-10 skid with the two wins coming against the putrid Bengals. You can't blame Modell for wanting to move onto a new head coach. Modell wasn't disbanding his football team, he was moving it to a new city. He could have kept Belichick, he chose not to.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick brought in Testaverde as his franchise quarterback. It didn't work out at all, it ruined his reputation there, and the team was in a free fall by the end of the 1995 season... they finished out the season on a 2-10 skid with the two wins coming against the putrid Bengals. You can't blame Modell for wanting to move onto a new head coach. Modell wasn't disbanding his football team, he was moving it to a new city. He could have kept Belichick, he chose not to.

Not what really happened.

 

[crawhammer]

Not what really happened.

How so? Modell could have kept Belichick as the HC for Baltimore. He didn't. How is that not Modell firing Belichick? And how did the 2-10 finish to the 1995 season not factor into Modell's decision?

 

[Ring 6]

How so? Modell could have kept Belichick as the HC for Baltimore. He didn't. How is that not Modell firing Belichick? And how did the 2-10 finish to the 1995 season not factor into Modell's decision?

The team was decimated by Modell moving it. It was blatantly clear at the time their season ended the day it was announced.
The only smart thing modell could have done would have been to keep belichick, as history has shown us.

 

[crawhammer]

The team was decimated by Modell moving it. It was blatantly clear at the time their season ended the day it was announced.
The only smart thing modell could have done would have been to keep belichick, as history has shown us.

Not really what history has shown us.

 

[captain stone]

The only smart thing modell could have done would have been to keep belichick, as history has shown us.

Why? Would Brady have been drafted by the Ravens?

Because Little Billy wouldn’t have won jack ****ing **** without him.

 

[Ring 6]

Not really what history has shown us.

I guess you weren’t watching the greatest dynasty ever.

 

[crawhammer]

I guess you weren’t watching the greatest dynasty ever.

Every second of it. Any clear thinking observer knows who made it happen.

 

[Ring 6]

Every second of it. Any clear thinking observer knows who made it happen.

Yes we do, but sure about you though.