One season too early rather than one season too late

[Ring 6]

Ring, it's really strange how you can have your flaw pointed out several times yet remain oblivious to it.

Let's try a different tack; please provide an example of a player - any player on any team in the salary cap era - who would meet your criteria.

I don't what flaw you mean. I don't think there is such a thing as one year to early is better than one year too late so I don't think I could find an example.
It's like me saying I haven't seen a good left handed QB in 10 years and you saying my contention is flawed because I can't name one.

 

[AzPatsFan]

18-19 Brady plus whoever comes next is certainly better than 18-whatever jimmy.
It's funny how people make this out like we will have to play without a QB when Brady is fine if we don't keep jimmy. There are many other QBs.

Also the assumption that jimmy will be the QB for 15 years is astounding.

But for ****s and giggles let's say jimmy becomes drew Brees.
Tom Brady has more playoff wins and SB wins in the last 3 years than Brees has in his career.

Would you have dumped Brady 3 years ago? He was 37. What if Giselle complained about concussions then?
Is there a QB on the planet that you would go back and say you would have traded straight up for Brady after 2013 and it would have been better for the franchise?

Brady is not only the GOAT but presently the best QB in the NFL.
how many SBs are you willing to give up so you can have the unknown guy who's name you know instead of the unknown guy who comes later?

what is jimmys contract were up a year ago. Would you have cut 39 year old Brady so as not to lose jimmy?
If jimmys conteact was up this offseason would you have sent Brady packing?
If Brady is the same QB in 17 as he was in 16 are you honestly getting rid of him at that point?
For what?

Your Fanatic fandom for TB is causing you to lose perspective.

Polo mayor may not become a future franchise QB, but he certainly has demonstrated very good QB play against two contenders, not cream puffs. His release IS ultra quick. And he seems to display POISE and the ability to read Defenses.

I can think of several Pats backups who were much worse then that.

 

[Ring 6]

Your Fanatic fandom for TB is causing you to lose perspective.

Polo mayor may not become a future franchise QB, but he certainly has demonstrated very good QB play against two contenders, not cream puffs. His release IS ultra quick. And he seems to display POISE and the ability to read Defenses.

I can think of several Pats backups who were much worse then that.

You mean a team with a losing record and a team that allowed a franchise record in total defense?

But it doesn't matter. Brady for 18-19 plus whoever comes next is a much better bet than dumping Brady and handing JAG the team for as long as he can hold the job.

 

[Simpelton]

Maybe, maybe not. No doubt if we did ditch Brady (when did this thread become about the Brady transition debate again?) we will suffer in the short term as a direct result. Transitioning from an established veteran quarterback to a young untested one will result in less wins in the immediate term.

That doesn't mean it's always the wrong longterm play though. There's more seasons than this one, more needs than to win this year.

This is not a franchise that is trying to maximize a narrow window. We have too much young veteran talent on the team other than the quarterback for that to be our situation. If we stick the transition to a young quarterback the rest of this core could compete for another 5 years with minimal adjustments. I'm not entirely sure Brady can lead in the field for the next 5 years. Some people are, I think that's absurdly overoptimistic.

If we were a go-nowhere franchise with a once-in-a-lifetime window, or were a franchise that was clearly reaching the end of its run of dominance, then it might be worth resting the franchise on Brady, and since it was going to fall anyway, let him play until it falls. But that's not the situation we're in. We're in too strong a position to coddle Brady if age does start catching up with him. We do have a successor who does look promising, and the rest of the roster is far from ready to join Mr. Brady in retirement. This team with a merely-above-average quarterback is, perhaps not a premium playoff team, but a definite playoff contender, and likely to remain so for multiple seasons to come. That's WITHOUT Brady, with another quarterback at the helm. 3-1 tells us that. And that needs to be taken into account.

Sans Brady, we drop several rungs but nowhere near all the way to the bottom. With our receiver corps, a balanced and deep stable of running backs, and a good young secondary, we're very well poised to ease into a new era in the very near future.

To put it more briefly for the TLR crowd.

This is the bottom line as I see it: This team has the chance to stick the transition to a new quarterback's era and keep winning after Brady. We're strong enough, deep enough and young enough. Brady and the franchise owe each other nothing, but the New England Patriots owes us as fans the right to try to accomplish a transition smoothly and keep us entertained indefinitely instead of holding the franchise hostage out of sentiment until their quarterback is limp as a wet dishrag and multiple potential contending years are wasted.

Trusting Brady to lead as quarterback for as long as this core remains strong is far too much hope and far too little pragmatic sense to gamble the fate of an otherwise strong franchise on the idea. No one is talking about tossing TB12 to the curb tomorrow... but Plan B needs to be in motion. If not Garoppolo, somebody.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe, maybe not. No doubt if we did ditch Brady (when did this thread become about the Brady transition debate again?) we will suffer in the short term as a direct result. Transitioning from an established veteran quarterback to a young untested one will result in less wins in the immediate term.

That doesn't mean it's always the wrong longterm play though. There's more seasons than this one, more needs than to win this year.

This is not a franchise that is trying to maximize a narrow window. We have too much young veteran talent on the team other than the quarterback for that to be our situation. If we stick the transition to a young quarterback the rest of this core could compete for another 5 years with minimal adjustments. I'm not entirely sure Brady can lead in the field for the next 5 years. Some people are, I think that's absurdly overoptimistic.

If we were a go-nowhere franchise with a once-in-a-lifetime window, or were a franchise that was clearly reaching the end of its run of dominance, then it might be worth resting the franchise on Brady, and since it was going to fall anyway, let him play until it falls. But that's not the situation we're in. We're in too strong a position to coddle Brady if age does start catching up with him. We do have a successor who does look promising, and the rest of the roster is far from ready to join Mr. Brady in retirement. This team with a merely-above-average quarterback is, perhaps not a premium playoff team, but a definite playoff contender, and likely to remain so for multiple seasons to come. That's WITHOUT Brady, with another quarterback at the helm. 3-1 tells us that. And that needs to be taken into account.

Sans Brady, we drop several rungs but nowhere near all the way to the bottom. With our receiver corps, a balanced and deep stable of running backs, and a good young secondary, we're very well poised to ease into a new era in the very near future.

To put it more briefly for the TLR crowd.

This is the bottom line as I see it: This team has the chance to stick the transition to a new quarterback's era and keep winning after Brady. We're strong enough, deep enough and young enough. Brady and the franchise owe each other nothing, but the New England Patriots owes us as fans the right to try to accomplish a transition smoothly and keep us entertained indefinitely instead of holding the franchise hostage out of sentiment until their quarterback is limp as a wet dishrag and multiple potential contending years are wasted.

Trusting Brady to lead as quarterback for as long as this core remains strong is far too much hope and far too little pragmatic sense to gamble the fate of an otherwise strong franchise on the idea. No one is talking about tossing TB12 to the curb tomorrow... but Plan B needs to be in motion. If not Garoppolo, somebody.

You are overlooking that Brady is the primary reason for the success and the dropoff from him to JAG likely severely diminished the success.

We have the GOAT at QB playing like the GOAT when games,seasons and championships are on the line, the margin is razor thin.
We are not a championship contender without Brady.

 

[Ivan]

You are overlooking that Brady is the primary reason for the success and the dropoff from him to JAG likely severely diminished the success.

We have the GOAT at QB playing like the GOAT when games,seasons and championships are on the line, the margin is razor thin.
We are not a championship contender without Brady.

You are letting your emotions get the better of you. You are allowing your fandom of the greatest player to ever play the game and the best player in the game right now to cloud the far more analytical judgement to get rid of him and give the job to an unproven backup who didn't last six quarters when asked to play sixteen, Get rational.

 

[Simpelton]

If either of you think you've even touched my argument you're pitifully mistaken.

Sooner or later Brady will go. Throw sparks at me all you like, father time is undefeated.

Here is the only question that matters -- does Tom Brady go at a moment of HIS choosing, or of his TEAM's choosing? That is literally the question. Flailing around invoking nostalgia and engaging in the whole rogue's gallery of logical fallacies doesn't address that question.

Ivan in particular thinks that even asking that question is tantamount to stabbing Brady in the back with a rusty kinfe and leaving him in a ditch to die. I'll leave that absurdity to stand in its own condemnation.

Andy Johnson is even more lost. For some reason he can't understand that the debate and the question are not about this year at all, and framing the debate as if Brady's current level of play was a proper response to the questions posed by his advancing age has a certain stench of insecure desperation to it. "But I feel fine" is not a proper response to the fact of inevitable death. And responding to those who talk of eventual replacement as if they were suggesting immediate replacement is just a failure of reading comprehension on a level of "dude do you even English?"

 

[Joker]

I only have one question for you...WHY is it so unbelievably important to YOU that Brady's playing future be dissected like a cadaver, torn to shreds and justified by "I'm only talking about eventual replacement, so let me rip and tear and besmirch everyone who disagrees with my particular pontificatus blabberatus". Are you so goddamned ADHD riddled that you cannot wait for the future, whatever it holds, and ENJOY the coming season? Is it of such tantamount importance that you be seen as "the knower of things". Sorry, that's three things.

 

[Simpelton]

I only have one question for you...WHY is it so unbelievably important to YOU that Brady's playing future be dissected

Because I am a fan of the New England Patriots first, Tom Brady second. The implications of the last few years of Brady's career are very important to fans of the franchise. They're as interesting to us as they, apparently, disturbing to you on a "how dare you talk about the future of the Patriots franchise on a Patriots forum during the offseason" level.

Brady-first fans find the approach of the end of the Brady era distressing. Franchise-first fans find it interesting. You guys wonder why we're dwelling on such a painful thought. We wonder why you're trying so hard to deny the inevitable. The Brady era is ending. Within the next few years even. Which is wiser, to spend time worrying about something you can't change and lashing out at anyone who isn't exactly as emotionally destraught as you are as if they aren't real fans, or to engage in some harmless speculation about where the franchise will be in 5 years?

Not to speak for too many other franchise-first fans, but I am curious what Bill has in mind, whether plans are in motion and if so what they might be. I also like to weigh in with my guesses as to what might take place. It's exciting in a way, the beginning of any new era is exciting, even if it does mean going through the pains of ending an old one.

 

[Joker]

then just wait and you'll find out...instead of playing Pontificatus Blabberatus the All Knower Of Things....and BTW I'm not distressed about a goddamned thing you smarmy little pr!ck. Your punkazzed condescending tone you take with everyone like YOU are some kind of genius pisses me off, OK? Now FOAD.,

 

[CutiePie]

Because I am a fan of the New England Patriots first, Tom Brady second.

it's surprising how many people are the inverse of that

will be fascinating to see who leaves after brady is gone

but.....lets just take it year to year and enjoy it all

life is short.....life is beautiful.....lets eat, drink, and be merry....for tomorrow we die

pearls of wisdom from cutie pie

 

[Simpelton]

then just wait and you'll find out...instead of playing Pontificatus Blabberatus the All Knower Of Things....and BTW I'm not distressed about a goddamned thing you smarmy little pr!ck. Your punkazzed condescending tone you take with everyone like YOU are some kind of genius pisses me off, OK? Now FOAD.,

You're sure acting like the topic is painful and you'd prefer to avoid it. Unless you're normally just a bitter angry little *****. Either way, leave policing the forum to the mods. You don't have the right to tell me not to say stuff here, and it's a perfectly valid topic of conversation on this Patriots forum.