Cool Link One for the Mac Jones haters

[Kasmir]

As a Mac fan, I think it is still important to acknowledge and understand the criticisms of his game. This article pretty well summarizes the hate:

New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones was and is a mistake

When it comes to evaluating professional athletes, in any sport, there are two trains of thought on how to do that. Sometimes these methods overlap, allowing th

musketfire.com

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

As a Mac fan, I think it is still important to acknowledge and understand the criticisms of his game. This article pretty well summarizes the hate:

New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones was and is a mistake

When it comes to evaluating professional athletes, in any sport, there are two trains of thought on how to do that. Sometimes these methods overlap, allowing th

musketfire.com

Thanks. Not much of an article - clearly a Zappe fan. Mac does have some questions to answer.

 

[Triumph]

 

[50-yard-line]

"There is no bias involved with numbers" might be the most ridiculous assertion I've read this year (or several years).

"Statistics will tell you whatever you want to hear if you torture them enough" is the truth.

Who did they each play against? Who was on the OL and how did their performance in the games with one compare with those of their games with the other? Is it a stylistic problem - a non-connection between an o-lineman and the particular QB? Who were at the skill positions? Same questions as before. The point is, sports are emotional and individual, even in a team game, and performances vary with each player from game to game. This is why "super-subs in sports almost always fall off when they get the chance to be a full-timer. Think Brock Holt. it's also why some positions, particularly QB often look better in their first few starts, particularly coming off the bench, when the opposing team doesn't have a book on the guy's tendencies.

With all that said, I don't disagree with a couple of the conclusions here. Mac Jones's footwork last year was HORRIBLE and his throws were erratic - too slow to the sideline, too short on some deeper routes. Was that because his head was all screwed up by having an incompetent and nasty couple of coaches handling him, or does he just not have "it" to be a good NFL QB?

I don't know that answer. We'll find out this year, maybe even this summer. he needs to take full control of that offense, make the moves in the pocket and make the throws. If Zappe beats him out, so be it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

First of all, what is with that choice of the picture with the headline of the article?

Mac Jones is clearly the most divisive draft pick/player the Pats have had in Bill’s tenure.

There’s no point complaining about how his arm is putrid, footwork is terrible, cries, has a bad attitude, yells at coaches and dances around and talks trash for no reason.

But it seems the Author has never played sports at any level in his life. Although Mac is a professional, coaching absolutely matters. Scheme absolutely matters. The players surrounding you absolutely matters.

With that said, this is a make or break year for Mac with his option looming. O’Brien should help stabilize and add structure to the offense at worst. Gesicki is an upgrade at TE and I could see him later this season being talked about as a steal in the off-season. Schuster is a slight upgrade, but he needs another WR or TE to step up to take attention away from him or it will be wash. However, I don’t like the O-line and Klemm has his work cut out for him.

 

[oldrover]

C’mon, BOB! Give the kid some RPO’s and let him rip!

 

[Lansdowne]

I’m as skeptic of Mac as the next guy, but this article was poorly written. It started off with such a sarcastic tone that I was almost expecting a “surprise, this is actually a pro-Mac article” until it wasn’t. Lots of context are missing. Makes no mention of Mac’s superb rookie campaign or offer any theory as to why he regressed so much in 2022 (hint: coaching matters a lot).

Also teases the concept of introducing advanced statistics but doesn’t commit to it. Otherwise he’d have to write that Zappe threw for fewer intended air yards per pass attempt (6.9) than Mac (7.9), a product of a much more conservative playbook for the rookie Zappe. Yes it is a very small sample size (4 games, 2 starts) but if you’re going to try to use that sample size to argue in favor of completion percentage then everything else is fair game too.

When Zappe was subbed in for Mac early in the 2nd quarter against the Bears and helped the Pats take the lead after being down 10-0 early, that was a chance for him to make his case and run with it. He did not impress and didn’t see another snap after that game. I don’t think any QB stood a chance with Patricia and Judge calling the offense, but that’s the point this writer was clearly missing.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know if Mac Jones is the QB of the future of this team or will end up a career back up at this point. But I totally disagree with the guy saying you cannot blame Patricia or Judge for a lot of his poor play last year and he just sucked. That is absolute garbage.

When the Pats drafted Jones everyone said he was the perfect fit for the Pats because of the fact he can process information at the line so well and has a quick release. He was a brains over brawn type of QB. What did Patricia do? He created an offense where Jones couldn't call audibles or line adjustments at the line, ran plays where Jones really didn't have much options of who he threw to, threw a lot of intermedia or deep plays on first down requiring him to hold onto the ball too long, and Patricia's job coaching the o-line was worse than his job as OC. Jones was constantly under pressure because the offensive tackles refused to block on some plays.

I am sorry, but you can draw very little from Jones' play from last year. Last year was far more of an indictment of Belichick because he followed the "How bad teams destroy a young QB in year 2" playbook to a T. I think if McDaniels didn't leave, we would have a whole different perspective of Jones. People could be still questioning whether he is a true franchise QB, but he wouldn't have been the disaster he was last year. Brady in his prime might have had a career worst year if that was his offense. Mahomes and Allen might have done better because they could have run around until players got open, but no pocket passer could have done well in that offense.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the footwork argument is weak. He had pretty good footwork in his rookie season and his footwork issues were corrected a lot down the stretch last year. Yes, he was uncomfortable in the pocket, but that was because he didn’t trust the offense or his o-line. There weren’t these complaints about his footwork in college or his rookie season.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

BTW, the footwork argument is weak. He had pretty good footwork in his rookie season and his footwork issues were corrected a lot down the stretch last year. Yes, he was uncomfortable in the pocket, but that was because he didn’t trust the offense or his o-line. There weren’t these complaints about his footwork in college or his rookie season.

Mac had more pressure on him in 2022 than any other point in his career. With the added pressure, his footwork broke down (it can be argued that his whole throwing motion broke down). Maybe that is to be expected with any young QB and that is why defensive pressure is commonly used against young QBs. The argument that his footwork was OK when he was at Alabama with all day to throw, and better in his rookie season when the play calling was very conservative (dinking and dunking which led to an offensive collapse over the last 5+ games), is not a strong argument.

I think Mac will recover and be better for the mistakes he made in 2022 - I have said this previously. Mac knows he broke down, and as you note, looked better at the end of 2022 (as opposed to looking worse in 2021). Having said that, I am only guessing. I do not think Mac has faced adversity like 2022 in any previous seasons, so I do not think comparisons are valid. We simply have to wait and see when the bullets are flying. We will know this season.

 

[Real fan 02]

As a Mac fan, I think it is still important to acknowledge and understand the criticisms of his game. This article pretty well summarizes the hate:

New England Patriots' QB Mac Jones was and is a mistake

When it comes to evaluating professional athletes, in any sport, there are two trains of thought on how to do that. Sometimes these methods overlap, allowing th

musketfire.com

Like you.. I'm a new England Patriots fan, a Mac fan as well. I'll never be able to fully understand why some alleged Patriots fans seem as if they want him to fail. If he fails we are picking in the 1st round like so many other franchises did trying to find the guy. Buffalo took 19 seasons.. the Jets desperately traded for Rodgers. Dolphins aren't committed to Tua.

We have a prime opportunity to get right this season, and look like a playoff caliber team we were ascending to be prior to last season. Mac is the starting QB for this franchise and I feel he'll get right and put the team in position to contend.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I blame Jonnu... (edit) and Wynn... (edit2 - if the OLine sucks this year after that last draft I'm gonna have a fūcking conniption... and many people think I'm the calmest person they know)

 

[Rob0729]

Mac had more pressure on him in 2022 than any other point in his career. With the added pressure, his footwork broke down (it can be argued that his whole throwing motion broke down). Maybe that is to be expected with any young QB and that is why defensive pressure is commonly used against young QBs. The argument that his footwork was OK when he was at Alabama with all day to throw, and better in his rookie season when the play calling was very conservative (dinking and dunking which led to an offensive collapse over the last 5+ games), is not a strong argument.

I think Mac will recover and be better for the mistakes he made in 2022 - I have said this previously. Mac knows he broke down, and as you note, looked better at the end of 2022 (as opposed to looking worse in 2021). Having said that, I am only guessing. I do not think Mac has faced adversity like 2022 in any previous seasons, so I do not think comparisons are valid. We simply have to wait and see when the bullets are flying. We will know this season.

The problem is we don't know if his footwork issues last year was because he was under more pressure or whether it was such a bleep show that he was always off balance because he couldn't trust his offense or players around him or both.

As for Jones sitting back in the pocket in Alabama, his average time to throw in 2020 was 2.53 seconds. Not considered a very quick release by NFL standards, but a pretty good speed for a release. That is a fairly quick release at the college level. And it is pretty comparable to the average times to throw for in 2022 for Justin Herbert, Kirk Cousins, and Dak Prescott. Hell, that is what Bailey Zappe took last year. NOTE: Jones average time to throw last year was 2.2 seconds and 2.4 seconds in 2021. I am not going to pretend to be an expert on Bama football, but the tape I saw on Jones had him have a pretty quick release in college. He didn't really sit back and wait for plays to develop. He threw with anticipation of where his receivers were going to be.

As for the adversity that Jones faced in 2022, I don't think many QBs face that type of adversity any one year in their careers. Everything was against him last year. He had no real OC. He knew more about the QB position than his QB's coach. The offense was designed to be easy for the coaches to call even though it minimized the strengths of Jones and the other offensive players while exploiting all their weaknesses. He had his left tackle quit on the team and never had a legitimate RT all year. He got injured. The fans fell in love with the back up and booed Jones off the field. The head coach helped to fuel the QB controversy and never spoke in support of Jones. Many QBs have a handful of these things in a single season, but few if any have all of them. Some of the adversity was created Jones himself, but he was also dealt a pretty bad hand last year.

 

[Ian]

In the end, Jones will decide his own future this season. He'll either turn it around and have a great year and at least play well enough where they score points and the defense does the rest (they went over 40 points three times in 2021, including hitting 50+ twice), or he'll have enough outings where they'll decide not to pick up his option and/or not extend him.

It's all on him, and the process will play itself out. Zappe's got three years left on his deal and two more after this year. But so far, he didn't do enough in minicamp to show he's ready to unseat Jones just yet. But if Jones goes out and falters, he'll get his chance.

So for the people hoping to see them move on from Mac, this will be the season where that will ultimately decide it. And moving forward, I doubt much will change. They'll absolutely continue drafting quarterbacks just like they did when Brady was here, and it will be up to Jones to maintain an acceptable level of play. And he'll either handle it the way Brady did, or he'll handle it the way Rodgers did.

If it's the latter, I doubt he'll be here. But I don't expect that to be the case given that he's had to fight off competition throughout his career going to back to college. But whether or not they find someone more physically talented is going to be the challenge. Whether or not he's up to it will simply be up to him. People just have to be patient and let him prove it one way or the other.

 

[Triumph]

The article contains a lot of truth.

Jones does throw off his back foot. Jones does look lost out there just like Mark Sanchez did. Rarely in control of whats going on. The opposing defense is in control and the Pats offense led by Jones is trying to react and stay in the game best as possible. Stevenson had only 8 less targets than Meyers who was the # 1 WR. Stevenson's YBC (yards before catch) was a - 0.8 yards. Everything is check down and bail out in lieu of forcing the ball down field.

BB must make a change at QB if it looks like the season is going down the drain again.

 

[libra957]

Mac's job will be in serious jeopardy if he doesn't play better this year.

 

[Real fan 02]

The article contains a lot of truth.

Jones does throw off his back foot. Jones does look lost out there just like Mark Sanchez did. Rarely in control of whats going on. The opposing defense is in control and the Pats offense led by Jones is trying to react and stay in the game best as possible. Stevenson had only 8 less targets than Meyers who was the # 1 WR. Stevenson's YBC (yards before catch) was a - 0.8 yards. Everything is check down and bail out in lieu of forcing the ball down field.

BB must make a change at QB if it looks like the season is going down the drain again.

Mark Sanchez went to 2 AFC title games..

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mark Sanchez went to 2 AFC title games..

And it's still a mystery how that happened.

 

[Real fan 02]

And it's still a mystery how that happened.

2 dominant defenses those years including a HOF CB in revis.. and a stout running game..

 

[Real fan 02]

Mac's job will be in serious jeopardy if he doesn't play better this year.

Well anything better than last season would be a vastly improved offense and Mac..