[Old 2020 thread] NFL Free Agency/Trade Rumors:

[upstater1]

Actual dollars spent over a 3-5 year time is the truest metric of how much a team spends on its players. The cap is an accounting mechanism. It can be gamed. Real dollars spent over a 3-5 year period if time can’t.

Sure it can, see my previous post on this. If you end the 5 year window in a year you just doled out a bunch of contracts w/ big signing bonuses, it looks like you're paying out huge sums. But if year 5 of that window is a year in which you're accounting for dead money from previous years, then it looks like you're not paying much.

Some years you shell out, some years you don't. 5 years is too short a window for this kind of analysis since many contracts are 4 years long.

A much better analysis would be to look at 10-15 years.

 

[holyredeemer]

This would be great.

Sign Big T, bring back both Butler & Guy. That’s a really solid line to start with heading into the Draft.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Not questioning you but how do Bucs get away with using Devin White who is 6' 237# and Lavonte David at 6'1" 233#.

Just want to add that with a stout d line their LB doesn't need to be that big to take in OL in 1 vs 1. Vea and Suh prevent that. I think when we have better run stoppers upfront we can hopefully get some lb with more sideline to sideline speed. Watching Bentley chasing Running Backs is awful

Those guys are very fast and White had 9 sacks and 10 stuffs. Are those off the edges maybe.

Edit: just saw @Elijah using same 2 lbs above.

 

[Ivan]

You can do the same thing with any draft. Notice that no team got more than one of these guys, and all of them were drafted way below their production level. That’s because there’s a lot of luck involved in the draft with any given pick outside the blue chips in the early-mid first round. The “what could have been” here is like getting struck by lighting twice or winning the powerball.

This is always the case with the way fans redraft, they cherry pick after the fact, and they do absolutely no work on the context of those picks.

 

[DaBruinz]

Sigh. OK, I misspoke. Wondering if you're the only one being this petty. I meant that the Brady contract offer was still good AFTER they franchised Thuney.

And you're hopelessly confused about what's being discussed here. You wrote "One has ZERO to do with the OTHER." No sh--! That's the point I'm making to Rings who is arguing that the Patriots would have CUT Thuney if they signed Brady. And I'm saying "One has ZERO to do with the OTHER." If they were connected, the Brady offer would be dead once they franchised Thuney. Clearly, BB knew he could sign both and keep them.

It's not "being petty". It's called going by what you ACTUALLY said. None of us here are Miss Cleo and can read minds.. You're claim that I'm the one hopelessly confused when you are the one not saying what you actually mean is ridiculous. My statement of "One has ZERO to do with the Other" was in reference to the Amount of Cap Space the Patriots had at the end of the season compared to the beginning of the season when they were in contract discussions.

Instead of getting frustrated with ME and lashing out, you should step back and realize that this whole track with me responding to you happened because of your "misspoken" post and not for any other reason.

 

[upstater1]

It's not "being petty". It's called going by what you ACTUALLY said. None of us here are Miss Cleo and can read minds.. You're claim that I'm the one hopelessly confused when you are the one not saying what you actually mean is ridiculous. My statement of "One has ZERO to do with the Other" was in reference to the Amount of Cap Space the Patriots had at the end of the season compared to the beginning of the season when they were in contract discussions.

Instead of getting frustrated with ME and lashing out, you should step back and realize that this whole track with me responding to you happened because of your "misspoken" post and not for any other reason.

Didn't lash out. Im calm as can be. And I never said the salary cap at the end of the season somehow dictates what it was at the beginning of the season. Show me where I said that.

I see you're also changing goalposts and discussing this dishonestly. I went back to your post where you said "One has ZERO to do with the other" and indeed it was about the relation of Thuney's franchise tender to Brady's contract offer. I knew it didn't have anything to do with salary cap at end of the season being related (or not) to what was going on at the beginning because I never even argued those do or don't have anything to do with each other. I never said the $20m cap space proved there was room for Brady. Never said that.

So obviously you were responding to the discussion of what went down between the Thuney money and the Brady contract (and it all happened within the span of 24 hours (March 17 and 18).

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[DaBruinz]

You went through a lot of work for nothing. The Brady offer didn't die AFTER Thuney was franchised, like the ther guy argued. Follow along please.

That's funny coming from the guy who can't follow his own posts. I'm following along just fine based on what You ACTUALLY posted. Not what you think you posted.

Marcus Cannon: almost $10m (you didn't include his cap hit from last year which was $2.8m after the opt out. If you included that, you'd take his cap hit + the cap savings from cutting him this year and you'd get $9.9m+)

Wrong. I'm using OTC's numbers. He had a $1.3M cap hit after the Opt Out. Not $2.8M. And Cannon would have had a 3.7M dead money hit if the Pats had cut him last year. Salary + SB amortization+Total of the Per Game Roster Bonus+Workout Bonus+ Other Bonus. While his Contract tolled, the SB amortization stayed.

4.7M+1.17M+1.5M+50K+100K = 7.52M

Marcus Cannon Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Marcus Cannon contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Cam Newton: $1.75m

Adrian Phillips: $2.75m

Beau Allen: $3m

Total: $17.5m

This doesn't even include the calculation of Brady's hit if he was signed. The dead cap hit was $13.5m, though of course I don't know what the signing bonus would have been last year, but the dead cap hit would have been spread over 2 or 3 years.

BEFORE opt outs, they had the money to sign Brady and Thuney. Cutting Cannon and not signing Phillips / Allen / Newton would have been more than enough. I'm sure Belichick was really looking at cutting more than Cannon prior to the opt outs.

I don't know where you are getting your numbers for Phillips and Allen, but they're not correct. Phillips had a 2.2M cap hit and Allen had a 2.8M contract. You seem to be using their APY, which is incorrect.

Adrian Phillips Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Adrian Phillips contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Beau Allen Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Beau Allen contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

All this above shows you aren't actually bothering to look at the entire picture. As I show above, Cannon wouldn't have been a 10M savings since he had 3.72M in SB amortization remaining while his total cap hit was 7.52M.

The dead cap of 13.5M from Brady was going to be there regardless of whether or not Brady was signed. So you mentioning it is moot since there was no way to amortize that hit.

You're ignoring that Newton wasn't signed until JULY. That was AFTER the Pats had received money from the AH & Brown grievances and before the Opt-Outs. So, you including him doesn't make any sense because it had no bearing on the money available in March.

PS. I've known since before the start of the league year in 2020 that they had enough to sign both Thuney and Brady. I said as much way back in the "can we re-sign Brady Thread" and I mentioned how they could convert Salary to Signing Bonus for players like Mason and Hightower to free up money to do so. And yes, they could have ALSO signed Phillips and Allen while re-signing Thuney and Brady. While you are correct in your statement about the Brady and Thuney contracts having no bearing on one another, the "facts" your attempting to present are erroneous at best.

 

[DaBruinz]

Didn't lash out. Im calm as can be. And I never said the salary cap at the end of the season somehow dictates what it was at the beginning of the season. Show me where I said that.

I see you're also changing goalposts and discussing this dishonestly. I went back to your post where you said "One has ZERO to do with the other" and indeed it was about the relation of Thuney's franchise tender to Brady's contract offer. I knew it didn't have anything to do with salary cap at end of the season being related (or not) to what was going on at the beginning because I never even argued those do or don't have anything to do with each other. I never said the $20m cap space proved there was room for Brady. Never said that.

So obviously you were responding to the discussion of what went down between the Thuney money and the Brady contract (and it all happened within the span of 24 hours (March 17 and 18).

Like hell you didn't lash out. Your saying that I'm "being petty" and that I'm the one "hopelessly confused" when, in fact, I am following along just fine. Especially since you pulled the "I misspoke" nugget after that??

I'm not the one "moving goalposts" and "discussing this dishonestly". I've used the phrase in two different posts with you. In this case, I forgot about using it in that specific sentence. Mia Culpa..

Below is the post I was referencing when I pointed out " the Amount of Cap Space the Patriots had at the end of the season compared to the beginning of the season when they were in contract discussions."

Here, is sure as hell looks like you are referencing what they had in Cap space at the end of 2020 while also mentioning the Thuney franchising and the Pats trying to get a deal with Brady. What was your point of mentioning what they had to end the 2020 season?

Once again, BB offered Brady AFTER Thuney was franchised.

This is an incontrovertible fact.

Patriots also finished with $20,331,213 in cap space.

 

[upstater1]

That's funny coming from the guy who can't follow his own posts. I'm following along just fine based on what You ACTUALLY posted. Not what you think you posted.


Wrong. I'm using OTC's numbers. He had a $1.3M cap hit after the Opt Out. Not $2.8M. And Cannon would have had a 3.7M dead money hit if the Pats had cut him last year. Salary + SB amortization+Total of the Per Game Roster Bonus+Workout Bonus+ Other Bonus. While his Contract tolled, the SB amortization stayed.

4.7M+1.17M+1.5M+50K+100K = 7.52M

Marcus Cannon Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Marcus Cannon contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

I don't know where you are getting your numbers for Phillips and Allen, but they're not correct. Phillips had a 2.2M cap hit and Allen had a 2.8M contract. You seem to be using their APY, which is incorrect.

Adrian Phillips Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Adrian Phillips contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Beau Allen Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Beau Allen contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

All this above shows you aren't actually bothering to look at the entire picture. As I show above, Cannon wouldn't have been a 10M savings since he had 3.72M in SB amortization remaining while his total cap hit was 7.52M.

The dead cap of 13.5M from Brady was going to be there regardless of whether or not Brady was signed. So you mentioning it is moot since there was no way to amortize that hit.

You're ignoring that Newton wasn't signed until JULY. That was AFTER the Pats had received money from the AH & Brown grievances and before the Opt-Outs. So, you including him doesn't make any sense because it had no bearing on the money available in March.

PS. I've known since before the start of the league year in 2020 that they had enough to sign both Thuney and Brady. I said as much way back in the "can we re-sign Brady Thread" and I mentioned how they could convert Salary to Signing Bonus for players like Mason and Hightower to free up money to do so. And yes, they could have ALSO signed Phillips and Allen while re-signing Thuney and Brady. While you are correct in your statement about the Brady and Thuney contracts having no bearing on one another, the "facts" your attempting to present are erroneous at best.

I am following my posts quite well and I see you're changing the goalposts again as you've been caught out. You were responding to the Thuney/Brady timing that has been my point all along. Now you want to ignore the fact that that's exactly what you were addressing.


As for Cannon, Miguel has him at $2.8m. Your guys missed his option: Marcus Cannon.

I've already been over the rest. I read Allen's cap hit as his dead cap hit which was $3m but you're right it was $2.15, a difference of $850k. On Phillips I did the same, but your number is wrong (as is overthecap) according to Miguel: Adrian Phillips

It's $2.5m.

With a new contract, Brady's cap hit gets extended because the Patriots actually built it as an extension with a cap hit that could have been extended 2 more years. If he had signed.

New England Patriots – NBC Sports Boston

Articles from the category: New England Patriots

www.nbcsports.com

 

[Ross12]

This thread is a dumpster fire. It's a new league year anyway. I'm locking this and starting a new one. PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS BRADY VS. BELICHICK in the new thread. It's been a year now, let's move on. Tom is the franchise's most important player ever and the GOAT but has little to do with 2021 free agency.