Officiating

[upstater1]

Yes. I have a clue about the Patriots. They have benefited from a lot of questionable calls in big situations. Same as everyone else that has played in big games. The tuck rule. The Jesse James catch. The Chris Jones roughing. I didn't say the calls were wrong. Just that they were questionable calls that went the Patriots way. And certainly the rest of the league has felt that the Patriots have benefited more than anyone else. So it's kinda funny now to hear you all talk about how the league is rigged suddenly.

How did they benefit from the tuck rule when they lost a game to the tuck rule, which changed the entire seeding for the playoffs? If there was no tuck rule, they have a better won loss record, and higher seeding.

Chiefs got way more calls in the game you referenced.
Even on the very same play, Edelman was clearly interfered with.

Jealous fans hated the Patriots so of course they scrutinized every call, yet the Patriots fans can name just as many calls that went against us.

In fact, the most absurd calls in the history of the league.

I can do this all day, but even Collinsworth was laughing at the 2017 Super Bowl when the NFL announced it as going to change the rules just for that one game, and then proceeded to call one catch by the old rule, another catch by the new rule, both against the Patriots. Collinsworth understood how absurd the NFL was.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

...the Patriots have benefited more than anyone else.

When you play in 40 playoff games you are going to get some in your favor and some not in your favor.

As to the latter, watch the play of the Tyree catch and focus on the pass rush, and the guy holding Seymour around the neck. Seymour actually fights through the hold enough to grab and pull Eli's jersey, but the uncalled hold clearly prevented the sack.

 

[crawhammer]

Yes. I have a clue about the Patriots. They have benefited from a lot of questionable calls in big situations. Same as everyone else that has played in big games. The tuck rule. The Jesse James catch. The Chris Jones roughing. I didn't say the calls were wrong. Just that they were questionable calls that went the Patriots way. And certainly the rest of the league has felt that the Patriots have benefited more than anyone else. So it's kinda funny now to hear you all talk about how the league is rigged suddenly.

You and @MAC10 are going to be BFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

When you play in 40 playoff games you are going to get some in your favor and some not in your favor.

As to the latter, watch the play of the Tyree catch and focus on the pass rush, and the guy holding Seymour around the neck. Seymour actually fights through the hold enough to grab and pull Eli's jersey, but the uncalled hold clearly prevented the sack.

Simply putting your arm around the neck of another player is not necessarily holding. This is what the definition is according to the rulebook:

Offensive Holding | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

grabbing or tackling an opponent;
hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
pulling him to the ground

At no point did O'Hara grab, tackle, hook, jerk, twist, turn, or pull Seymour. If you watch the play live, O'Hara has his arm around his neck just for a second, which is never enough for a holding call.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

O'Hara choked Seymour. It's a flag.

I guess Im not sure what i expect when said poster's signature photo was a post super bowl XLII loss photo.

 

[bresna]

Simply putting your arm around the neck of another player is not necessarily holding. This is what the definition is according to the rulebook:

Offensive Holding | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

At no point did O'Hara grab, tackle, hook, jerk, twist, turn, or pull Seymour.

He's twisting/turning him in the first picture! You honestly don't think that was holding? We'll agree to disagree.

If not holding on Seymour, what about Jarvis Green getting held and twisted (from behind no less!) by Rich Seubert? There were so many holds on that play much less the "in the grasp" rule. Eh, why are you making us relive this crap?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

O'Hara choked Seymour. It's a flag.

According to that photo, it looks like O'Hara had his arm around Seymour's collarbone, not even neck. So it can't be "choking." I made a mistake in call it "choking."

Eh, why are you making us relive this crap?

I'm not the one who brought this up. Blame @Palm Beach Pats Fan for posting the pictures.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

In this case, the OL is not even facing Seymour, he is grabbing him from the side/behind. It is not particularly close to being a legal block.


Holding:

Use his hands or arms to materially restrict an opponent or alter the defender’s path or angle of pursuit. It is a foul regardless of whether the blocker’s hands are inside or outside the frame of the defender’s body. Material restrictions include but are not limited to:

grabbing or tackling an opponent;
hooking, jerking, twisting, or turning him; or
pulling him to the ground.

 

[Thelonious]

Not a ridiculous assertion... At All. The last month of this past season should've erased ALL doubt.

I don't think so broad a conspiracy could possibly be established and maintain secrecy over time. I am not aware of any substantiated instance of fixing in the NFL. Am I wrong? (Perhaps I am!) If I ever thought fixing were going on, I'd probably stop watching the game. Even as it is, there are a few too many players who are such rotten human beings I find it hard to stomach watching them. I will never watch a game in which D. Watson plays, for example. Fixing would be the last straw.

 

[Thelonious]

That would solve nothing. The NBA has full time refs. Have you watched any NBA games lately?

I take your point, but I think it irresponsible to abandon trying to address any serious problem without first trying the obviously reasonable fixes: here trained officials committed to the job as a profession and afforded such technological aids as might reasonably be expected to work. I find the NBA unwatchable - lousy ball played by insufferable narcissists - but I am aware there have been problems in that league, including a fixing scandal. Fwiw, probably not much, I do think basketball is a much easier game to fix: fewer players, each official with proportionally more power than in football.

 

[crawhammer]

According to that photo, it looks like O'Hara had his arm around Seymour's collarbone, not even neck. So it can't be "choking." I made a mistake in call it "choking."

O'Hara himself said he choked Seymour: "I said, 'Screw it.' I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go."

It's an actual quote so look it up. You're wrong (again).

 

[SHOWTIME15]

O'Hara himself said he choked Seymour: "I said, 'Screw it.' I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go."

It's an actual quote so look it up. You're wrong (again).

I said "according to that photo." So no, I'm not wrong.

Would you like me to list everything you've said wrong this year? Even @venecol says your wrong all the time.

 

[lancerman]

I said "according to that photo." So no, I'm not wrong.

Would you like me to list everything you've said wrong this year? Even @venecol says your wrong all the time.

You really don't want to get in a pissing match with other posters about things that you were wrong about

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You really don't want to get in a pissing match with other posters about things that you were wrong about

he provided no source for that quote. the only place I found it was this Pats Pulpit article, which doesn't state when or where O’Hara said this.

Giants Shaun O’Hara confirms he choked Richard Seymour on Eli Manning’s Super Bowl scramble

Ten years after the game, the New York Giants center admits that on the famous "Helmet Catch" play, he was choking Patriots defensive end Richard Seymour.

www.patspulpit.com

in any event, the refs don’t call much in super bowls. the players know this and should be prepared.

 

[crawhammer]

I said "according to that photo." So no, I'm not wrong.

Would you like me to list everything you've said wrong this year? Even @venecol says your wrong all the time.

You're unbelievable. @venecol thinks you're nitwit. Whatever. 'According to a still photo' isn't nearly enough information. Watch the play. Listen to the player himself. He admits he literally tried to choke Seymour. End of debate. Move onto to one of the multiple other penalties committed by the Giants on that play.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

he provided no source for that quote. the only place I found it was this Pats Pulpit article, which doesn't state when or where O’Hara said this.

It's an ESPN article, nitwit, linked driectly from the Pat's Pulpit article. byline by Ian O'Connor, ESPN staff writer

19-0? Sorry ... it's just not crazy with these Patriots

Belichick and Brady have stretches of 18 straight wins and 32 in 34 games together. It's not sacrilege to discuss the possibility of 19-0 after the Super Bowl winners got better.

www.espn.com

...as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You're unbelievable. @venecol thinks you're nitwit.

What Venecol thinks of me has nothing to do with him knowing you are wrong all the time.

Whatever. 'According to a still photo' isn't nearly enough information. Watch the play. Listen to the player himself. He admits he literally tried to choke Seymour. End of debate. Move onto to one of the multiple other penalties committed by the Giants on that play.

Again, the refs don't call much in super bowls. The players on both sides know this. I've seen Edelman and Moss push off in super bowls and not get flagged for it. Post a video or audio of O'Hara saying this. WHenver I see him talk about the Tyree play he's never mentioned the "choke."


You've moved on from blaming Belichick for SB42 to the refs. Congratulations.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It's an ESPN article, nitwit, linked driectly from the Pat's Pulpit article. byline by Ian O'Connor, ESPN staff writer

19-0? Sorry ... it's just not crazy with these Patriots

Belichick and Brady have stretches of 18 straight wins and 32 in 34 games together. It's not sacrilege to discuss the possibility of 19-0 after the Super Bowl winners got better.

www.espn.com

...as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0.

Great, how do I know O'Hara wasn't saying it "tongue in cheek?" Get me audio or video.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Post a video or audio of O'Hara saying this. WHenver I see him talk about the Tyree play he's never mentioned the "choke."

One of ESPN's most senior writers quotes him verbatim

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Great, how do I know O'Hara wasn't saying it "tongue in cheek?"

You are a flat Earther too, aren't you?