Game Day Thread Official Preseason Game Day Thread- Pats @ Giants

[rochrist]

They gave three away but received one so you're both kind of correct

Well, sure. That was the entire point of the trade. They gave Miami 3 first-rounders (plus a third) for the number 3 pick.

 

[Mack Herron]

That could be a big deal - would be nice to have our ST aces be able to contribute.

Somebody has to play opposite Jackson.

 

[Wozzy]

They were both injured.

Telling a guy to go home for a year doesn’t help him develop.

Sure, all NFL teams don't play fast and loose with their injury reports.

And a guy who is in no way ready to help a competitive roster does no good sitting on the bench and/or playing poorly on special teams.

The best players play. They can only roster so many LB'ers, just like WR, RB, OL and DL... you can't roster somebody who doesn't contribute.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If out of Uche, Winovich, Jennings, Perkins one becomes an above average starter that's not bad. Also not an impressive hit rate to spend a top100 pick 4 times, to hit once. Hoping Uche continutes to show consistency.

Dugger can't supplant Philips at SS until he can cover tight ends. If he can't cover tight ends he can't be a starter on a championship defense, period.

 

[Wozzy]

I was waiting for Ring 6 to challenge someone on this.

"Foxboro flu" is a regular saying for a reason.

The Pats and every other team never look for a competitive advantage or way to improve their team... makes sense.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Josh Uche jumps out on the screen. He's got a great bust off of the line and a potential breakout player.

Dugger on the other hand.....

Who is responsible for uncle dugg?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Dugger can't supplant Philips at SS until he can cover tight ends. If he can't cover tight ends he can't be a starter on a championship defense, period.

Yep, we’re in the minority seeing this. He’s not very going man against TE’s.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who is responsible for uncle dugg?

What do you mean?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yep, we’re in the minority seeing this. He’s not very good making up against TE’s.

It's been pretty obvious for those paying attention. Dugger is a thumper and can hit, and his way to more snaps is improving his TE man coverage. The starting lineup don't lie and Philips was the one starting at SS. Dugger wasn't in the starting lineup. It is what it is. Unfortunately...

 

[Ring 6]

Sure, all NFL teams don't play fast and loose with their injury reports.

And a guy who is in no way ready to help a competitive roster does no good sitting on the bench and/or playing poorly on special teams.

The best players play. They can only roster so many LB'ers, just like WR, RB, OL and DL... you can't roster somebody who doesn't contribute.

Yes and they cut the guys who don’t make the team. Many end up on the practice squad.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Wozzy is right: Perkins has indeed truly Stunk this preseason.

If he were a UDFA instead of a top-100 pick, he would be waived tomorrow.

But he's not, so he won't be.

I know his argument but what’s about second or third year players still not manage to contain the edge constantly?
Also Perkins had pressures. He just did not turn them into a sack, but forced a qb out of the pocket for example. And it’s Not like he played so many snaps to evaluate him. He needs the redshirt year probably and learn from Judon ht etc

 

[catent]

It's been pretty obvious for those paying attention. Dugger is a thumper and can hit, and his way to more snaps is improving his TE man coverage. The starting lineup don't lie and Philips was the one starting at SS. Dugger wasn't in the starting lineup. It is what it is. Unfortunately...

Dugger was on the field in nickel, which is effectively base (insofar as the set seeing the majority of the reps). He's shown ability in coverage this preseason. Got beat once on a nice throw by Fitzpatrick. Had a pass breakup in man coverage against Philly, and played a beautiful MoF zone and closed on a 4th down against Philly. Dugger looks more comfortable and is flashing in coverage. He'll be a big part of the defense.

 

[moosekill]

Bill's most damaging calculation by far. Didn't get the haul we should have for Jimmy and massively compromised his relationship with the Goat. A lose/lose of epic proportions.

This is silly revisionist crap. Jimmy had played 5 quarters, looked good then got hurt. He was in the last year of his rookie deal and was looking for starter money to sign a long term contract. This narrative began because a Cleveland reporter had the hots for him and kept posting stories that the Browns were willing to trade whatever it takes to get him. Refuted at the time by both the Browns and Patriots. Jimmy went to San Fran and was amazing, until he got hurt, then amazing again until he got hurt. But his value came after the trade when he looked great for San Fran.

 

[moosekill]

And I am sorry, but if a 40 year old nfl qb is butt hurt because his team drafts a backup qb, then plays him a lot in the preseason he has some issues. I always thought that was a bunch of media garbage and thought more of Brady, and truthfully I still do.

 

[PScottman]

Dugger was on the field in nickel, which is effectively base (insofar as the set seeing the majority of the reps). He's shown ability in coverage this preseason. Got beat once on a nice throw by Fitzpatrick. Had a pass breakup in man coverage against Philly, and played a beautiful MoF zone and closed on a 4th down against Philly. Dugger looks more comfortable and is flashing in coverage. He'll be a big part of the defense.

There is no such thing as player progression in their world.

Troy Brown, J.C Jackson, Julian Edelman, hell, even Tom Brady wouldn't been given a chance to develop under them because unless you are a "status" or "name" draft pick from day one (or have stats AFTER being drafted cherry picked to prove your point) that player sucks and is doomed to mediocrity.

No Duggar is not an all-pro safety today. There are no indications however that his development ceiling isn't that high and what he does contribute is something every NFL team needs - a DB that plays "above" his weight and size more like a LB so that teams cannot simply go two TE and run all over 5 DB (now the base) defenses.

He has shown significant improvement in coverage (especially zone coverage) this preseason and will likely be able to turn that understanding into better man coverage in the future.

 

[Sicilian]

There is no such thing as player progression in their world.

Troy Brown, J.C Jackson, Julian Edelman, hell, even Tom Brady wouldn't been given a chance to develop under them because unless you are a "status" or "name" draft pick from day one (or have stats AFTER being drafted cherry picked to prove your point) that player sucks and is doomed to mediocrity.

No Duggar is not an all-pro safety today. There are no indications however that his development ceiling isn't that high and what he does contribute is something every NFL team needs - a DB that plays "above" his weight and size more like a LB so that teams cannot simply go two TE and run all over 5 DB (now the base) defenses.

He has shown significant improvement in coverage (especially zone coverage) this preseason and will likely be able to turn that understanding into better man coverage in the future.

People forget that he came from a Div II school and played his rookie year with limited training camp and no preseason. The fact that he's so solidified into our base defense in year 2 should give people plenty of reason for optimism. Also, the idea that a player needs to be good at everything to be an impact player in this league is problematic, because it makes you think it's possible to have 11 guys like that on defense. Defenses have maybe 2-3 guys like that, the rest of rotated in and out based on situation and matchup. Hightower had similar things said about him early in his career, how he was too slow to cover, so teams would just exploit that over and over. He seems to be doing alright for himself despite that "fatal" flaw.

 

[Wozzy]

Yes and they cut the guys who don’t make the team. Many end up on the practice squad.

They just cut Will Sherman, the guard they just drafted… explain to me again how it doesn’t happen.

 

[Ring 6]

They just cut Will Sherman, the guard they just drafted… explain to me again how it doesn’t happen.

What?
Cutting a guy is disproof that they make up injuries to pay them to take a year off football.

 

[Wozzy]

What?
Cutting a guy is disproof that they make up injuries to pay them to take a year off football.

First I was told they wouldn’t cut a draft pick, then I was told they didn’t make up injuries to give developing players more time…

I’m trying to figure out how we get rid of lesser players every year when we break a 90 man roster down to 53 when close to 10-15 of them are either drafted or UDFA rookies?

Bill will either cut them outright, trade them or place them on the IR with an injury nobody say them get. In the case of Duke Dawson it was a hamstring, he was healthy up until the moment they had to make cuts and his hamstring broke… but it doesn’t happen.

 

[Ring 6]

First I was told they wouldn’t cut a draft pick, then I was told they didn’t make up injuries to give developing players more time…

I’m trying to figure out how we get rid of lesser players every year when we break a 90 man roster down to 53 when close to 10-15 of them are either drafted or UDFA rookies?

Bill will either cut them outright, trade them or place them on the IR with an injury nobody say them get. In the case of Duke Dawson it was a hamstring, he was healthy up until the moment they had to make cuts and his hamstring broke… but it doesn’t happen.

I didn’t tell you we don’t cut draft picks. We do.
What I said is they don’t make up injuries and out players on IR and have them take a year off of football. It makes no sense to either the team or the player and both would have to be complicit.