Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Eagles

[Deus Irae]

Interestingly, Chatham put a lot of blame about the screen game on Brady. Saying many if them were actually set up well.

And Chatham is definitely not someone who makes it a sport to go after people. Thanks for putting Bedards thoughts here.

Chatham seems to have had a bad game of analysis, from what's been posted here about his work.. The OL screw ups on screens were obvious enough that the broadcasters were calling it out in real time, and they were easily seen even during the flow of the play, no replay needed.

 

[Kontradiction]

Chatham seems to have had a bad game of analysis, from what's been posted here about his work.. The OL screw ups on screens were obvious enough that the broadcasters were calling it out in real time, and they were easily seen even during the flow of the play, no replay needed.

I think Chatham has a bit of a bad habit of letting his inner homer flow a bit too much in some of his analyses. This is a good example of that. It’s why he really hasn’t hit the next level of a “film reviewer” in the same way that Lazar has. Lazar has been wrong as well, but it’s not because he’s taking steps to defend the overall team or the coach.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Chatham has a bit of a bad habit of letting his inner homer flow a bit too much in some of his analyses. This is a good example of that. It’s why he really hasn’t hit the next level of a “film reviewer” in the same way that Lazar has. Lazar has been wrong as well, but it’s not because he’s taking steps to defend the overall team or the coach.

You may be right. I'm not questioning that. I don't follow Chatham enough to make an evaluation. So, I'll just point out what one of the Patriots (Some guy named Belichick) pointed out about those who are analyzing film (even those who are former players):

They're guessing. Even the coaching staffs, who's jobs are on the line when it comes to analyzing film, are guessing on some portions of play identification and analysis.

And I think we've seen some great examples of this just this season.

• The Brady INT in the end zone where the defender sags off of Meyers and makes the play
• The myriad "X was open!" posts, which happen with every team, every game
  
• Posts where we've seen people say "X was supposed to block Y, not Z", such as at least one this week

 

[captain stone]

You can hold the belief that the Patriots will only get better as they go into December because:
a) You're a homer
b) You have 18 years of history that shows the Patriots only get better going into December.

Not in 2015.

 

[turkeyneck]

I'm afraid Wynn coming back isn't going to be enough. Brady isn't playing well. Biggest example is on the backwards pass from burkhead to Brady that ultimately fell incomplete deep to Dorsett. On that play Edelman is as open as it gets and I don't know how Brady didn't see him.

His internal clock is running too fast because he doesn't trust his blocking. Hurrying makes you have tunnel vision.

 

[Zarozzor]

Apparently Brady sat next to Newhouse on the flight home and was sacked one final time.

 

[bormio]

Apparently Brady sat next to Newhouse on the flight home and was sacked one final time.

The first quote was after the Bills game, not Philly.

 

[Oswlek]

This is on BB honestly....not Newhouse....he is what he is which is not a good football player....this is on BB letting this OL situation and the “backup” plan...get to this point...Wynn won’t fix everything but should help a lot

Yes because Bill should totally have known his first round stud with no injury history in college would get hurt again AND his choice for the top backup spot would retire AND the rookie swing option wouldn't return from NFI AND Andrews would go down forcing the primary interior backup into a starting role AND the promising young rookie guard would also end up on IR which pretty much elminated any chance of sliding Thuney over to tackle. Bill should totally have seen that happening.

Seriously, why make stuff up when there are plenty of legitimate complaints that can be made?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

...AND that the starting FB would go down AND that the backup FB would go down.

 

[Nunchucks]

His internal clock is running too fast because he doesn't trust his blocking. Hurrying makes you have tunnel vision.

I could not agree enough, so quoted you as well. This is the problem. Brady has no trust in the OL.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

A follow up on my previous post:

Bedard is laying most of the blame for the struggles with the screen game on Karras' and his lack of athleticism. He's not the only guy who's noted the OL struggles in terms of getting out in front of those blown screens, but he's the first I've seen to point to a specific member of the OL.

Addendum, in response to Luuk's question:

He noted in passing, while talking about Mason, that Cox took advantage of him during the game.

I remember pointing this out after Andrews got hurt. It's a struggle for him to get there nm putting in work on the 2nd level. That said he's been serviceable/decent imo.

 

[captain stone]

Yes because Bill should totally have known his first round stud with no injury history in college would get hurt again...

Wynn did indeed have an injury history in college...an upper-body history, but nonetheless...

...AND his choice for the top backup spot would retire...

Veldheer was Bill's "choice" only because he was available that late in free agency and was willing to play for the (relatively smaller) money offered.

...AND the rookie swing option wouldn't return from NFI...

AND Bill therefore NEVER should've drafted him where he did...damaged goods already...

... AND Andrews would go down forcing the primary interior backup into a starting role AND the promising young rookie guard would also end up on IR which pretty much elminated any chance of sliding Thuney over to tackle...

Frodo the "promising" rookie guard was exposed during his last couple of pre-season games and was subsequently IRed...with the Foxborough Flu...

...AND that the starting FB would go down AND that the backup FB would go down.

I'm a little surprised and very disappointed that Bill hasn't signed another FB in an attempt to fill at least Develin's role, if not his success, especially when they were so productive running the football whenever there was one on the field...and how they haven't been now because (among other reasons) there isn't one on the field...

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Wynn did indeed have an injury history in college...an upper-body history, but nonetheless...

Veldheer was Bill's "choice" only because he was available that late in free agency and was willing to play for the (relatively smaller) money offered.

AND Bill therefore NEVER should've drafted him where he did...damaged goods already...

Frodo the "promising" rookie guard was exposed during his last couple of pre-season games and was subsequently IRed...with the Foxborough Flu...


I'm a little surprised and very disappointed that Bill hasn't signed another FB in an attempt to fill at least Develin's role, if not his success, especially when they were so productive running the football whenever there was one on the field...and how they haven't been now because (among other reasons) there isn't one on the field...

He had a labrum injury.

That's not a history.

Also anyone that studies or pays attention to linemen, esp OL knows most have dealt w this at some point.

Some don't even know they have/had it until getting checked out. Others won't even disclose it bc again they play through it or don't want to go to get treatment/Dr.

 

[captain stone]

He had a labrum injury.

That's not a history...

I mentioned it only because the OP suggested that Wynn has never had an injury (or "no injury history") while in college...

 

[Oswlek]

That's not a history.

Yes, "history" refers to a trend, not an instance, particularly when the college and NFL issues were unrelated.

I also think it is silly to go through each one and point out that it wasn't the absolute best player available. They had a first rounder they felt very good about, a couple vet options including one Bill had all but assured would make the roster, a relatively high draft pick and some scattered flotsam and jetsam. In other words, exactly what their history suggested they would do. Their wildly successful history.

If you want to give Bill grief about anything, look a few feet to the left of Newhouse. The TE position is a mess and almost has to have been poorly evaluated. If not that then the TE diminished offensive approach has not gone as planned. Either way, something went awry there that can't be chalked up to bad luck.

 

[1960Pats]

Yes, "history" refers to a trend, not an instance, particularly when the college and NFL issues were unrelated.

I also think it is silly to go through each one and point out that it wasn't the absolute best player available. They had a first rounder they felt very good about, a couple vet options including one Bill had all but assured would make the roster, a relatively high draft pick and some scattered flotsam and jetsam. In other words, exactly what their history suggested they would do. Their wildly successful history.

If you want to give Bill grief about anything, look a few feet to the left of Newhouse. The TE position is a mess and almost has to have been poorly evaluated. If not that then the TE diminished offensive approach has not gone as planned. Either way, something went awry there that can't be chalked up to bad luck.

Could the TE problem be related to the timing of Gronk's retirement?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, "history" refers to a trend, not an instance, particularly when the college and NFL issues were unrelated.

I also think it is silly to go through each one and point out that it wasn't the absolute best player available. They had a first rounder they felt very good about, a couple vet options including one Bill had all but assured would make the roster, a relatively high draft pick and some scattered flotsam and jetsam. In other words, exactly what their history suggested they would do. Their wildly successful history.

If you want to give Bill grief about anything, look a few feet to the left of Newhouse. The TE position is a mess and almost has to have been poorly evaluated. If not that then the TE diminished offensive approach has not gone as planned. Either way, something went awry there that can't be chalked up to bad luck.

Their "history" tells us that they sometimes succeed in fixing a position, and sometimes fail. Their "history" tells us that they are usually smarter about their OT position than they were this year. Their "history" tells us that they need to find WRs before the season starts, not during it. Their "history" tells us that rookie WRs are unlikely to have particularly productive seasons. Their "history" tells us that they struggle to fix the TE position, yet they still have chosen not to seriously attempt long term fixes at the position for a lot of years now. And sports "history" tells everyone not to be stupid enough to depend on guys who are in bounce back seasons after long term injuries to be everything you thought they were prior, because most players need time to get up to speed even after their recovery and rehab period is over.

In the end, their "history" tells us that they'll still make the playoffs, likely still make the AFCCG if they can secure HFA, and quite possibly make the Super Bowl even with a relatively weak team. But that's because "history" shows us that Brady/Belichick make up for a lot of problems, and find a way to overcome them, not because "history" shows us that the team fixes all the talent deficiencies.

 

[Oswlek]

Could the TE problem be related to the timing of Gronk's retirement?

Only in the sense that other players may have shied away due to lack of clarity. But NE had enough time to put a plan in place so they wouldn't be relying on last minute signees. This one is on them.

Pure speculation on my part, I feel like they thought Izzo was going to develop faster than he has. Or develop, period, might be a better way to say it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Could the TE problem be related to the timing of Gronk's retirement?

We've known a change was coming for years & had plenty of time to address the position.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yes, "history" refers to a trend, not an instance, particularly when the college and NFL issues were unrelated.

I also think it is silly to go through each one and point out that it wasn't the absolute best player available. They had a first rounder they felt very good about, a couple vet options including one Bill had all but assured would make the roster, a relatively high draft pick and some scattered flotsam and jetsam. In other words, exactly what their history suggested they would do. Their wildly successful history.

If you want to give Bill grief about anything, look a few feet to the left of Newhouse. The TE position is a mess and almost has to have been poorly evaluated. If not that then the TE diminished offensive approach has not gone as planned. Either way, something went awry there that can't be chalked up to bad luck.

Big agree on the TE position & have expressed the same thoughts a few times. Given how important its been here in so many different ways, kinda weird.

OT wasn't perfect but we had nothing in fa/draft & nothing has been showing up on Sundays.