Official Post Game Thread- Broncos beat the Pats

[BelizePats]

Belichick was *****ing about lack of practice in his presser. You play the guy that has more practice time in, no?

The Broncos seemed to have enough practice tim

People are down on him because he has yet to show he was worth a first round pick. Combine that with the fact that DK Metcalf already looks like a top 5 receiver in the league, Deebo Samuel looks like a pretty dynamic weapon who seemingly was a perfect fit for our offense pre-draft, and AJ Brown looks like a legitimate number 1 guy. Even Dionte Thompson and Mecole Hartman look significantly better than Harry.

I think there was also a fair amount of people who wondered at the time if Harry was the right receiver to take based on his scouting report. So far the knocks on him coming out look to be pretty dead on. Route running, release, and separation are all a big part of why he is struggling and it doesn't look like anyone can blame his lack of production on Brady anymore.

Understood and I agree with pretty much everything you say. My question then is what did our coaching staff see where they would overlook those concerns coming out of college? I've given this coaching staff a free pass on their inability to draft and develop receivers over the past 10 years, in a league where the rules of the game have been altered over that time frame, to clearly favor the passing game. Look at the draft capital that Bill has invested in the DB position, which is some form of recognition that the passing game has become more vital to success. Just look at the number of second round picks spent on DB's in the last decade. Why not some of that draft capital on the receiver position instead of just on the positions to stop the receiving game? Please no one mention the second for Sanu. This was a complete outlier on how Bill normally operates.
Drafting receivers has been an issue for this team and I'd like to figure out why? Picking at the bottom of rounds may partially explain it but in a results oriented league, the results have been poor with this position. Bill has failed to select and develop young receivers. You can't argue this. I just want to know why? And then fix it.

 

[BelizePats]

Sorry, not sure why the post from archstanton543 appeared above? I disagree with everything he said. My response was geared towards 203Pats' last post.

 

[Uptown]

 

[sb1]

Sorry, not sure why the post from archstanton543 appeared above? I disagree with everything he said. My response was geared towards 203Pats' last post.

Probably had an extra quote tag in there. Happened to me before.

 

[lancerman]

Just because Stidham isn't the answer, doesn't mean Cam is the long term answer either. Your prediction that using a draft pick to find a QB would be a waste is based on nothing also.

I did this with someone else on this board, but basically when you do the math..... around 75% of the QB starters or soon to be starters (Tua being groomed behind Fitz) are 1st round QB’s. The majority of them top 10 picks.

Just in the AFC, only Minshew/Lock are non first rounders and both teams are likely candidates for a first round QB this year. In the NFC.... Cousins (who is having a terrible year) Wilson, Garopollo, Brady, Brees (and he was 32 which would be first round today), and Dak are outside the first. Dak and Wilson are far and away the only ones not either old enough to be retiring soon or not on shaker ground and liable to be ditched soon (Jimmy and Cousins).

So really drafting in the first round and spending high capital is usually the way to get a QB unless you get extremely fortunate. Odds are we aren’t doing that. So we either have to get lucky or wait around for a total collapse.

Meanwhile Cam is a starter if you want to build around someone for a few years

 

[lancerman]

You are overvaluing the Seattle game anomaly

Cam was the best offensive player on the field every game he played in

 

[JMC00]

Pats WRs and TEs in the 2018 playoffs* (*Won SB that year)

736 yards
64.3%
3 TD 2 INT
(w/ a 100% healthy OL)




Yes I get that was 3 games but the tweet is really only based on 3 games of the offense. 1 game had to start the backup on 2 days notice, who ended up killing the team in the red zone, the other was the QB playing after not practicing for 2 weeks with a musical chairs OL.

 

[BelizePats]

People are down on him because he has yet to show he was worth a first round pick. Combine that with the fact that DK Metcalf already looks like a top 5 receiver in the league, Deebo Samuel looks like a pretty dynamic weapon who seemingly was a perfect fit for our offense pre-draft, and AJ Brown looks like a legitimate number 1 guy. Even Dionte Thompson and Mecole Hartman look significantly better than Harry.

I think there was also a fair amount of people who wondered at the time if Harry was the right receiver to take based on his scouting report. So far the knocks on him coming out look to be pretty dead on. Route running, release, and separation are all a big part of why he is struggling and it doesn't look like anyone can blame his lack of production on Brady anymore.

I understand being down on him for not living up to his draft status. But that is very different from the outright hate of this player that I see on this board.

 

[Nehalem]

I have to severely question your ability to analyze football if you didn’t see a huge difference between Cam this year and what we got against KC

In 3 quarters or so vs KC Hoyer put up 3 points. Should have been 6 if not for his forgetting the down at the end of the 1st half.

In the first 3 quarters against Denver Cam put up 3 points.

You see a huge difference?

Against LV Newton put up 17/28 for 162 yards 1 TD and 1 int and one good rush.
Against KC Hoyer put up 15/24 for 130 yards and 1 int.

Basically if Hoyer could have made one good play in the red zone against KC at the end of the first half and he would have probably played better than Cam has in his last 2 games. Certainly no worse

 

[Uptown]

Pats WRs and TEs in the 2018 playoffs* (*Won SB that year)

736 yards
64.3%
3 TD 2 INT
(w/ a 100% healthy OL)




Yes I get that was 3 games but the tweet is really only based on 3 games of the offense. 1 game had to start the backup on 2 days notice, who ended up killing the team in the red zone, the other was the QB playing after not practicing for 2 weeks with a musical chairs OL.

Thanks, but I’m just posting info. It wasn’t meant to bash/criticize the O.

 

[SVN]

the blue print to the two wins we had was a dominating oline at the LOS. We didnt do that/couldnt do that yesterday and it ended up being a long day for the offense. That is going to be key the rest of the season. Rush for 150 yards or you will have little chance of winning. No point wondering about the WRs and TEs anymore. they are who they are. Key is to get the oline back and functioning.

 

[Uptown]

 

[203Pat]

Understood and I agree with pretty much everything you say. My question then is what did our coaching staff see where they would overlook those concerns coming out of college? I've given this coaching staff a free pass on their inability to draft and develop receivers over the past 10 years, in a league where the rules of the game have been altered over that time frame, to clearly favor the passing game. Look at the draft capital that Bill has invested in the DB position, which is some form of recognition that the passing game has become more vital to success. Just look at the number of second round picks spent on DB's in the last decade. Why not some of that draft capital on the receiver position instead of just on the positions to stop the receiving game? Please no one mention the second for Sanu. This was a complete outlier on how Bill normally operates.
Drafting receivers has been an issue for this team and I'd like to figure out why? Picking at the bottom of rounds may partially explain it but in a results oriented league, the results have been poor with this position. Bill has failed to select and develop young receivers. You can't argue this. I just want to know why? And then fix it.

I agree that there clearly is some sort of disconnect when it comes to scouting receivers then putting them into our system. Harry and Dobson seem to be similar in that they were both big physical receivers who weren't super polished and weren't exactly speedsters. I just assume they are trying to draft a "rich man's" Brandon Lafell to be honest. A guy who can do what Lafell did in 2014 with a little bit more athleticism. Whatever it is they need to change their thinking on what is needed to be a New England Patriots wide receiver because they haven't hit on one in a very long time.

 

[Uptown]

 

[lancerman]

In 3 quarters or so vs KC Hoyer put up 3 points. Should have been 6 if not for his forgetting the down at the end of the 1st half.

In the first 3 quarters against Denver Cam put up 3 points.

You see a huge difference?

Against LV Newton put up 17/28 for 162 yards 1 TD and 1 int and one good rush.
Against KC Hoyer put up 15/24 for 130 yards and 1 int.

Basically if Hoyer could have made one good play in the red zone against KC at the end of the first half and he would have probably played better than Cam has in his last 2 games. Certainly no worse

But Hoyer didn’t put up 6 because he made a mistake Cam hasn’t made so far. So that’s irrelevant. Hoyer also didn’t miss two weeks of practice due to Covid and have a shakeup on the offensive line that caused significant problems. Cam isn’t overthrowing receivers all day and making those silly mistakes.

 

[Boomer B]

When a team whose talent is to run the ball and play defense plays a game with a rookie LT, it’s LT at LG, it’s LG at C a rookie at RG who moves to RT do another rookie comes in at RG while having 2 of its top 3 DTs out for all or more of the game, it’s not a talent issue it’s an injury issue.

Harry and Edelman came into this game on a 72 catch pace, in a running offense with shaky QB play. Byrd was on a 50+ catch pace. Edelman averaging more ypg than any season of his career other than the injury shortened 2015 season.

You cant judge receiver production based upon a game when the OL made them afraid to throw and then proved why when they did.

You’re right about judging after one game, but if we look at all 5 games avg over a full season:

N’Keal Harry

57 receptions
530 yds
3 TDs

Julian Edelman

64 receptions
960 yds
0 TDs

D. Byrd

54 receptions
694 yds
0 TDs

Whichever way you look at it we need a serious upgrade in offensive talent, and I haven’t even included TE numbers. Edelman has been a great Patriot, but he is on his last legs. Harry is a bust. Byrd can be a number 3 maybe but nothing more.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah, he was good. Thuney was previously hailed as maybe the best option at C on the team as well but I guess that talking point changes when the team takes an L.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

This is a recycled post from the old Gang Green forum. C'mon now: admit it.

Maybe you can convince to Rex Ryan to lead the team. He'd be endlessly optimistic after a debacle like this.

The talk here about "valiant effort, "showed heart," "were in it 'til the end" and so on is a steaming pile of horses--t. This team showed nothing today, which means they showed everything they've got. I'll give 'em that much.

As for Cam, he is what he is, and that aint good.

I think Cam's very good; yesterday was a bad day with some fully legit reasons. I think this can be a useful experience.

The defense stepped up and impressed me. No they weren't dominant but they fought hard and made some plays. Still plenty to work on.

When we finally have the chance to WORK on things...

 

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]