DRAFT DAY DISCUSSION OFFICIAL 2023 Patriots Draft Day Discussion: Round 2/3

[nextsuperstar]

I hope he is good in punt coverage, because they will be punting a lot.

Another incredible reach by BB. He has 4 4th round picks, the guy could have easily been taken with any of them.

I’m so sick of saying “who” from “where” when the Pats pick. Duggar is finally getting up to speed, just in time for him to reach FA. He was lost for the first two years. You have Saban basically teaching the Pats system , yet BB takes guys who can’t compete in the SEC, let alone the NFL.

I’m starting to think my 6 win prediction might be waaay to high.

So you actually like White and Gonzalez then. YOU must love them. In fact, you should be over the moon with those picks, since they were highly ranked prospects with pedigrees from big time programs. Since are enthralled with with picks one and two, why are you focused on round three?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I just want to highlight this phrase here - positional tweener. It sounds like BB wants to use Mapu as his 'big nickel'. BB has played with this concept before but it has failed. Maybe he just didn't have the right type of athlete to make it work, and Mapu is the missing guy, or maybe this is going to be yet another BB 'experiment' gone wrong.

I suspect the big nickel is exactly the plan for Mapu. He has said he loves playing in a 3-safety setup, he's a willing tackler and has the speed to cover TEs and RBs. The issue with the traditional nickel is matching 12 personnel:

Big Nickel, Super Safeties, and Defending 12 Personnel - 2023 NFL Mock Draft

Big Nickel, Super Safeties, and Defending 12 Personnel

www.draftblaster.com

And in the "nothing is new category" a similar article from a decade ago:

Big nickel package emerging as NFL's hottest defensive trend

Kenny Vaccaro and Eric Berry are two of the NFL's most dynamic safeties. Not coincidentally, both stars are focal points of the next major defensive trend. Bucky Brooks explains the big nickel scheme.

www.nfl.com

 

[nextsuperstar]

Am I the only one who loves having four 4th round picks?
It is like round 2 in that you get to re-set your board, and have the chance to grab good players who may have slipped through from the first two days.

Prospects after the mid second round are lottery tickets. The more tickets you have, the better your odds.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

The Packers had the kind of draft the Pats could only dream about. D-line/LB Van Ness, TE Musgrave, WR Jayden Reed, TE Tucker Kraft. THEY know how to surround their young QB with some weapons. They know how to draft.

Well, usually the Pats **** up day one and atone for themselves day 2 and 3. They flipped the script, throw day 2 in the ****ter. And get ready for all of those 4th round picks to become 5th and 6th round picks, probably all defense too. Who needs offense.

Don't agree on Van Ness. Used to like him but too limited so the Packers are projecting. Boom or bust guy. Musgrave slips because of knee issues. Don't want anyone with a knee issue. Gonzalez and White are much better.

 

[Ivan]

A team with a solid defense and suspect offense.

During any off-season you are trying to do two different things at the same time, one is to build to compete the coming season, the other is to build for the future. It’s clear to me that the Patriots don’t currently have the QB to engage in shootouts on a weekly basis and win. And unless Mac Jones takes a big step forward this season that will continue to be the case. So they have to put a team on the field that has a different way to compete, and I believe that what they are trying to do is to put a team out there that can run the ball effectively, convert first downs, and play a ball control and field position game offensively. On defense they are clearly trying to put together a team that gets after the QB, and can cover, as well as stop the run with Big Nickel personel. And given who they are facing, and their offensive limitations I believe this is the best approach to winning this season. As for the long term they have clearly taken a different approach to the Draft, and are going after more athletic prospects with higher ceilings, rather than the 3 year captain types they have drafted in the past. Although I want them to win now as much as anybody I think that both approaches they are taking are the right ones. This will most likely remain the case regardless of who the coach is until they find their own version of Mahomes, Allen, Burrows, etc. You can’t force that, you have to just keep building as talented a team as you can until you strike gold.


I keep seeing the same old posters bemoaning the Patriots for not being a Lombardi contender right now, but I have yet to see any of them give a coherent plan of action to become true Lombardi contenders. Did you want them to give up the next two-three drafts for Bryce Young, or multiple high picks and a **** load of money for Aaron Rodgers? Or are you all just pissed that they didn’t have the magical foresight to draft Mahomes when Brady was still here, and you still wanted Brady to stay forever?

Here’s an idea, instead of continual whining and *****ing, how about actually telling us what would have been a better way to have gone about it. And I’ll even grant you the fact that making Matt Patricia OC was a horrible idea, even though most of those constantly complaining don’t believe in Mac Jones anyway.

And Arch Stanton, this isn’t directed at you personally, but at those are only capable of being perpetually miserable, and contributing nothing positive to the discussion.

 

[Ivan]

The problem is that the game has changed since the halcyon days of 2003-2004 where they would let you play D. The league has moved towards having that big playmakers at WR and/or mobile or running QB's. The Pats are have-nots at those two positions. (and I like Mac)

I’ll respond to this as soon as I get the chance, I’m out doing things right now.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

While I do think bill has a plan, he is also opportunistic. The defensive guys they liked somewhat unexpectedly fell in his lap, so he/they took 'em.

 

[DaBruinz]

Stork was drafted and he was a success?

Thomas was drafted and not by the pats.

Andruzzi played for GB before the pats.

Dan Connolly played for JAX before the Pats.

Stork had a good year despite all the injuries on the O-line. Can help that concussions ended his career.

Andruzzi and Connolly were still UDFA. As was Stephen Neal, Brandon Gorin and Ryan Wendell.

The Pats haven't had to rely on a UDFA much since the 1st dynasty because they put draft capital into the O-line.

People are also forgetting that they have Chasen Hines and Andrew Steuber on the team.. Steuber started next to Onwenu for a year at Michigan. That could help here as well. Even if it's in a back-up role.

One of the most successful UDFA for the Patriots behind Stephen Neal is David Andrews. You know. Our current starting center.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The first 3 picks are good example that you can’t look at where they “rank” on either offense or defense and not think they need improvements.

Bill clearly thought his defense can’t compete against competent teams.

 

[archstanton543]

I keep seeing the same old posters bemoaning the Patriots for not being a Lombardi contender right now, but I have yet to see any of them give a coherent plan of action to become true Lombardi contenders. Did you want them to give up the next two-three drafts for Bryce Young, or multiple high picks and a **** load of money for Aaron Rodgers? Or are you all just pissed that they didn’t have the magical foresight to draft Mahomes when Brady was still here, and you still wanted Brady to stay forever?

Nope on all counts. I wanted them to surround Mac with talent and not hamper his development by putting two unexperienced clowns in charge of it.

 

[DaBruinz]

Guys whom I hope are on the Pats radar:
Luke Wypler - C
Israel Abanikanda - RB
Blake Freeland - OT
Adetomiwa Adebawore - DT
AT Perry - WR
Parker Washington - WR
Kayshon Boutte - WR
Cory Trice - DB

 

[DaBruinz]

Nope on all counts. I wanted them to surround Mac with talent and not hamper his development by putting two unexperienced clowns in charge of it.

Neither coach was "inexperienced" on the offensive side of the ball. The bigger issue was trying to implement the Shanahan Zone Schemes without a Coach familiar with it and the two coaches they had freezing out players who had actually played in said system.

EDIT: I always LOVE when people don't agree with actual FACTS.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Joejuan Williams Part Deux.

They do not even play the same position

 

[Ivan]

Nope on all counts. I wanted them to surround Mac with talent and not hamper his development by putting two unexperienced clowns in charge of it.

No one disagrees that Belichick screwed big time when he put Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense. But if you are going to talk about adding talent around Jones you need to be specific about who you wanted, and what they cost. Was there an offensive player you wanted more than Barmore. Would you have traded for Tyreek Hill, and then paid him what he wanted? Would he even have agreed to it? I wanted either Bijan Robinson or Zay Flowers out of this first round, but Robinson was gone and Gonzalez was a smarter pick at #17. Once again, people are really good at making vague complaints, but rarely go on record as to what they would have done, that could have actually happened.

 

[Real fan 02]

Am I the only one who loves having four 4th round picks?
It is like round 2 in that you get to re-set your board, and have the chance to grab good players who may have slipped through from the first two days.

You know it's funny.. we have a bunch of Jones's on the roster, had a harris to replace a harris and another Andrew at center to ultimately replace David Andrews.. just thought I'd mention that..

 

[Real fan 02]

It's gonna be awkward in the Denver receiver room where they spent all offseason talking about trading both of their top receivers, didn't trade them, and then instead traded up with their first pick to draft... another receiver.

Ross anything on the WRs we selected..? I can't say I'm familiar with them. I know we picked them late.. however late round picks seem to be hitting more lately than ever. I love the Gonzalez pick.. I know the kid will have to come in and learn the game at the nfl level.. but something about this kid just oozes stardom.. I like his attitude, he wants to get right to work with his coaches he says.. I believe we have our lock down corner.. he and Jack will be the swagg brothers..

 

[Toofy]

one thing i dont understand .. we are drafting a year early. if thats the case both our tight ends who are pretty good players are playing on a contract year, two wide receivers in bourne / parker are also on contract years. why have we not drafted their replacements?

is it an admission by the coaching staff that they do not have the ability or capability to develop wide receivers and tight ends and if any develops its more due to luck and they are content on rolling the die in lower rounds. using 3 fourth rounders on offensive linemen after expending 3 last year and signing 2 free agents looks like redundancy. I am still not sure why we need to do the mapu trade when he could have been available in the 4th round. we still had one decent TE in tucker kraft and wide receiver in josh downs available. bengals seem to be drafting the popular consensus picks in wide receiver namely charlie jones and losivas when they already have chase, higgins and boyd. what do we do? punt on Douglas and Boutte.

with reduced camp is it possible to evaluate and train up these draftees? most of the sixth and 4th rounders seem like an overreach on our part when we could have put good use to them by trading up and getting an extra 3rd rounder.

 

[PP2]

Scouting reports

You sure about that?

 

[upstater1]

You sure about that?

Yes, absolutely. I'm not sure what we're even talking about anymore. Takes plays off is not contradicted by plays hard some plays, when you show me hustle on some plays.

Keion had 4 sacks against North Carolina this year in one game, 7.5 sacks overall. I chalk that up to teams keying on him because of Ga Tech's limited talent.

 

[PP2]

Yes, absolutely. I'm not sure what we're even talking about anymore. Takes plays off is not contradicted by plays hard some plays, when you show me hustle on some plays.

Keion had 4 sacks against North Carolina this year in one game, 7.5 sacks overall. I chalk that up to teams keying on him because of Ga Tech's limited talent.

You're making the claim that "he doesn't always play hard" and said that you got that from scouting reports. Care to link to one?

Most reports I've seen on him knock him for being raw (as a result of playing a new position) but nothing on taking plays off.