O/T: Pete Carroll talks about SB XLIX Butler interception with Richard Sherman

[RobertWeathers]

After all the heat the NEP have taken from other teams, fanbases, etc from the last 20 years......I don't care.

 

[203Pat]

I always liked Pete Carroll and he did a really good job holding that team together for as long as he did with all the strong personalities and straight up nut jobs that's team had on it. They really would have been a dynasty if it weren't for that one play. That play call started the dissension amongst the ranks and started to create the locker room issues and conspiracy theories about how Pete favored Russel Wilson and didnt want Lynch to win MVP. That one play was the beginning of the end for that Seattle group.

 

[amfootball]

I have heard Pete say this before about getting in all 4 plays. But I just don't get it. After Kearse makes the ridiculous catch there is 1:06 left on the clock and they are at the 5 yard line with one timeout. Lynch has been having an MVP game and on first down he gets to the 1 yard line with 1:00 left when the whistle blows. If Pete was really thinking, we need to get all 4 plays down at that point when they are at the 1 yard line with a minute left AND a timeout with Lynch almost scoring on the fist play, then that is completely absurd and terrible explanation for throwing on second down. You don't throw because you want to ensure you get all 4 plays. the objective is to SCORE and you are at the one with the best back in the league who has been a wrecking ball all game.

Second, he is full of crap about Bill being late with the goal line personnel. The fact is, we already had our goal line personnel on the field and Pete like everyone else in the world thought Bill was going to use his last timeout. When he didn't, Pete runs off his 12 personnel group and brings on the 11 and then Bill runs on our 11 personnel (remember, Flores yelling "Malcolm go!"). Bill changed personnel when Pete changed from his 12 to his 11. Pete to this day refuses to acknowledge why he did not trust Lynch to just pound it in on second down. If Lynch got stopped on second down, he could have used his timeout then and threw on third and either run/throw on 4th. This notion he is peddling that he had to throw on second down to get all 4 downs is preposterous and IMO disingenuous. No wonder Sherman and the defense tuned him out for years ...

Lastly, my favorite SB is the Seahawks because it blew up their budding dynasty. I love how they say they would have won the next year when the Panthers blew their doors off. LOL

 

[Pape]

I have heard Pete say this before about getting in all 4 plays. But I just don't get it. After Kearse makes the ridiculous catch there is 1:06 left on the clock and they are at the 5 yard line with one timeout. Lynch has been having an MVP game and on first down he gets to the 1 yard line with 1:00 left when the whistle blows. If Pete was really thinking, we need to get all 4 plays down at that point when they are at the 1 yard line with a minute left AND a timeout with Lynch almost scoring on the fist play, then that is completely absurd and terrible explanation for throwing on second down. You don't throw because you want to ensure you get all 4 plays. the objective is to SCORE and you are at the one with the best back in the league who has been a wrecking ball all game.

Second, he is full of crap about Bill being late with the goal line personnel. The fact is, we already had our goal line personnel on the field and Pete like everyone else in the world thought Bill was going to use his last timeout. When he didn't, Pete runs off his 12 personnel group and brings on the 11 and then Bill runs on our 11 personnel (remember, Flores yelling "Malcolm go!"). Bill changed personnel when Pete changed from his 12 to his 11. Pete to this day refuses to acknowledge why he did not trust Lynch to just pound it in on second down. If Lynch got stopped on second down, he could have used his timeout then and threw on third and either run/throw on 4th. This notion he is peddling that he had to throw on second down to get all 4 downs is preposterous and IMO disingenuous. No wonder Sherman and the defense tuned him out for years ...

Lastly, my favorite SB is the Seahawks because it blew up their budding dynasty. I love how they say they would have won the next year when the Panthers blew their doors off. LOL

Most teams would expect you to run at that down/distance... But if you run on 2 and don't make it, it kills your clock...

was it the right call? Eh ... The pass play is no bad or worse than any other pass called at the goal line... Which happens frequently...

 

[Lavictoire]

Some tense moments I remember was that ridiculous Kearse catch which brought back the Giants nightmare. Then I remember screaming at Bill to call time-out. Then when Butler intercepted the ball my celebration was delayed as I was waiting for a flag as it looked like Butler hit the guy and they might call interference like they always do in those moments. I was still nervous something could go wrong as they ran time out by running a play.

 

[Steve102]

I have heard Pete say this before about getting in all 4 plays. But I just don't get it. After Kearse makes the ridiculous catch there is 1:06 left on the clock and they are at the 5 yard line with one timeout. Lynch has been having an MVP game and on first down he gets to the 1 yard line with 1:00 left when the whistle blows. If Pete was really thinking, we need to get all 4 plays down at that point when they are at the 1 yard line with a minute left AND a timeout with Lynch almost scoring on the fist play, then that is completely absurd and terrible explanation for throwing on second down. You don't throw because you want to ensure you get all 4 plays. the objective is to SCORE and you are at the one with the best back in the league who has been a wrecking ball all game.

Second, he is full of crap about Bill being late with the goal line personnel. The fact is, we already had our goal line personnel on the field and Pete like everyone else in the world thought Bill was going to use his last timeout. When he didn't, Pete runs off his 12 personnel group and brings on the 11 and then Bill runs on our 11 personnel (remember, Flores yelling "Malcolm go!"). Bill changed personnel when Pete changed from his 12 to his 11. Pete to this day refuses to acknowledge why he did not trust Lynch to just pound it in on second down. If Lynch got stopped on second down, he could have used his timeout then and threw on third and either run/throw on 4th. This notion he is peddling that he had to throw on second down to get all 4 downs is preposterous and IMO disingenuous. No wonder Sherman and the defense tuned him out for years ...

Lastly, my favorite SB is the Seahawks because it blew up their budding dynasty. I love how they say they would have won the next year when the Panthers blew their doors off. LOL

This is the best analysis I have read on that series, and 100% agree with your take. The situation called for a run on second, with a time out, about 45 seconds on the clock for third, and probably 25-30 seconds for 4th. He got schooled by Bill on this, who had ice in his veins BTW.

 

[Ivan]

The single greatest defensive call in football history. Belichick goaded Carroll into running the play, and had practiced against that very play all week leading up to the game, then had the balls to call it.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Malcolm Go

Edited to add: Pink Stripes

 

[upstater]

I have heard Pete say this before about getting in all 4 plays. But I just don't get it. After Kearse makes the ridiculous catch there is 1:06 left on the clock and they are at the 5 yard line with one timeout. Lynch has been having an MVP game and on first down he gets to the 1 yard line with 1:00 left when the whistle blows. If Pete was really thinking, we need to get all 4 plays down at that point when they are at the 1 yard line with a minute left AND a timeout with Lynch almost scoring on the fist play, then that is completely absurd and terrible explanation for throwing on second down. You don't throw because you want to ensure you get all 4 plays. the objective is to SCORE and you are at the one with the best back in the league who has been a wrecking ball all game.

Second, he is full of crap about Bill being late with the goal line personnel. The fact is, we already had our goal line personnel on the field and Pete like everyone else in the world thought Bill was going to use his last timeout. When he didn't, Pete runs off his 12 personnel group and brings on the 11 and then Bill runs on our 11 personnel (remember, Flores yelling "Malcolm go!"). Bill changed personnel when Pete changed from his 12 to his 11. Pete to this day refuses to acknowledge why he did not trust Lynch to just pound it in on second down. If Lynch got stopped on second down, he could have used his timeout then and threw on third and either run/throw on 4th. This notion he is peddling that he had to throw on second down to get all 4 downs is preposterous and IMO disingenuous. No wonder Sherman and the defense tuned him out for years ...

Lastly, my favorite SB is the Seahawks because it blew up their budding dynasty. I love how they say they would have won the next year when the Panthers blew their doors off. LOL

Tom Brady is on the other sideline. As a coach you’re expecting the Patriots to be the ones who kill the clock. Yes you need to score a TD and you’re trying to do that on 1st, on 2nd, whatever, but if it takes 4 downs you don’t want to give the Patriots 30 seconds.

 

[amfootball]

Tom Brady is on the other sideline. As a coach you’re expecting the Patriots to be the ones who kill the clock. Yes you need to score a TD and you’re trying to do that on 1st, on 2nd, whatever, but if it takes 4 downs you don’t want to give the Patriots 30 seconds.

What I would say to that is the Seahawks were taking away anything deep. If you watch out final 2 drives of the 4th, Brady just picks them apart with Edelman, Gronk, Danny, etc. Their secondary was too good to try to go deep. While it's possible Brady could have gotten is in FG range in 30 seconds to tie, it was unlikely vs that secondary which is why Pete should have continued to run the ball to force us to burn our final timeout.

One other thing that is often forgotten. When Kearse makes that catch and it goes to replay, the Seahawks burn their second timeout as they did not have their guys/play ready when the replay was over. That replay took at least 5 minutes as I remember them showing the Tyreek catch over and over. For Pete not to have his team ready at the 5 yard line in that situation is unforgivable and why his excuse of trying to get all 4 plays in is ridiculous. He had probably close to 8 minutes to think about that goal line drive from the 5 with the best RB in the league AND his first thought is, I have to make sure I get all 4 plays in? What!?

 

[amfootball]

It's been almost 10 years and he still can't admit it was a horrific play call. No wonder the players shut him out for years.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It's been almost 10 years and he still can't admit it was a horrific play call. No wonder the players shut him out for years.

I will absolutely defend Carroll's choice to pass. After all, the Pats D stopped Lynch on a 3rd-and-1 that set up the SEA field goal, and went with, essentially, an 8-man DL on that down.

That said, expecting that play to work was a bad idea, since it relied on setting a pick on a 6'4" CB.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

1.) Someone post that YouTube video with Seattle fan reactions....that never gets old, LOL.

2.) Not calling a time out in that spot was the greatest coaching move I have ever seen in professional sports bar none. Had we called TO...the Seahawks would have run on second down with a TO in their back pocket.

3.) Yup, we practiced that specific play...I think it was shown on the Patriots' "All Access" video or something a year after that Superbowl.

4.) The game should have never been that close to begin with. Logan Ryan allowing a TD just before halftime...he should have just settled for a PI call. Collins allowing a crazy wheel route up the sideline. Kearse's catch...but OMG...Butler was smart to push Kearse OOB! Nobody touched Kearse yet at that point.

5.) Deflategate was just starting....and pressure was on the Patriots that Superbowl. Remember Kraft getting off the plane in Phoenix and having to defend the team? Then the Seahawks go up 24-14 in the 4th...on a RUB ROUTE BTW....even Sherman pointed out that Revis was caught in the rub by spelling out "2-4" for the TV camera. And what does Tommy do? Put together two TD drives to put us up 4...all of this with the specter of Deflategate hovering...and not winning a damn Superbowl in a decade. Man, Tommy...the GOAT d%#*!@t!

6.) No, I don't feel bad at all. Sherman was all like, "You mad, Bro?" after we lost in Seattle about 2 years before that game...the Tavon Wilson game where Russ Wilson saw that he bit on play action...and boom two late TD's...we were up 23-10 before that...IIRC. And the Seahawks got their revenge in 2016...the only game we lost that year with Brady at home...where Kam Chancellor definitely interfered with Gronk, but the refs let it go.

7.) IMO, that game exorcised our 2007/2011 demons.....the Tyree and Manningham catches.

8.) Yall know that Ricardo Lockette never played in the NFL again? Just like David Tyree. EDIT: Barely....8 targets 4 receptions before going on I/R and Tyree also played again in 2008/2009...but made a few ST tackles...that was it.

 

[varjao]

BB didn't using that timeout was the biggest chess move ever. He manipulated Pete to a fatal mistake

 

[ctpatsfan77]

And the coaching staff for practicing that defensive call, out of that formation, multiple times prior to the game. I think someone said they didn't stop it once in practice, so the actual game was their first success with it.

I don't remember hearing that, though I do remember that Butler in particular didn't make the play the first time around.

 

[amfootball]

I will absolutely defend Carroll's choice to pass. After all, the Pats D stopped Lynch on a 3rd-and-1 that set up the SEA field goal, and went with, essentially, an 8-man DL on that down.

That said, expecting that play to work was a bad idea, since it relied on setting a pick on a 6'4" CB.

Lynch got 4 yards on first down and would have scored if Hightower didn't make one of the best tackles I have ever seen. I really don't have an issue with deciding to pass but the actual call to run a slant over the middle was insane. That is where I think Pete misses the boat. It's not just that he took the ball out of Lynch's hands from the 1, it's that he ran a slant over the middle and Browner recognized it as soon as they lined up.

 

[Hyped]

Additional tidbits:

The only Patriots player left on that roster from that game is Matthew Slater.

The only Patriots players on that team left in the NFL are: Matthew Slater, Marcus Cannon (maybe?), Cameron Fleming (Denver?), Logan Ryan (Tampa?), and Chandler Jones (Vegas).

Amazing how much a roster turns over in 9 years....now Revis is a Hall of Famer, Browner served some time and may still be in jail?, Butler is no longer in the NFL after his last hurrah with the Pats last year in camp, Mayo is a coach (he was on I/R that year, IIRC), Hightower hasn't played in two years....Brady finally is done...etc...etc...

Oh....that Hightower tackle on first down was one of the greatest plays I have ever seen...I think he blew out his shoulder on that play...not sure.

 

[Delicate Genius]

 

[Hyped]

Lynch got 4 yards on first down and would have scored if Hightower didn't make one of the best tackles I have ever seen. I really don't have an issue with deciding to pass but the actual call to run a slant over the middle was insane. That is where I think Pete misses the boat. It's not just that he took the ball out of Lynch's hands from the 1, it's that he ran a slant over the middle and Browner recognized it as soon as they lined up.

Yeah, I would have done a fade to the corner of the EZ. Butler was kinda short and barely knocking away passes from those tall receivers. A fade would have put it only where the receiver could get it and likely have fallen incomplete OOB...

 

[signbabybrady]

Comments:

1.) Someone post that YouTube video with Seattle fan reactions....that never gets old, LOL.

2.) Not calling a time out in that spot was the greatest coaching move I have ever seen in professional sports bar none. Had we called TO...the Seahawks would have run on second down with a TO in their back pocket.

3.) Yup, we practiced that specific play...I think it was shown on the Patriots' "All Access" video or something a year after that Superbowl.

4.) The game should have never been that close to begin with. Logan Ryan allowing a TD just before halftime...he should have just settled for a PI call. Collins allowing a crazy wheel route up the sideline. Kearse's catch...but OMG...Butler was smart to push Kearse OOB! Nobody touched Kearse yet at that point.

5.) Deflategate was just starting....and pressure was on the Patriots that Superbowl. Remember Kraft getting off the plane in Phoenix and having to defend the team? Then the Seahawks go up 24-14 in the 4th...on a RUB ROUTE BTW....even Sherman pointed out that Revis was caught in the rub by spelling out "2-4" for the TV camera. And what does Tommy do? Put together two TD drives to put us up 4...all of this with the specter of Deflategate hovering...and not winning a damn Superbowl in a decade. Man, Tommy...the GOAT d%#*!@t!

6.) No, I don't feel bad at all. Sherman was all like, "You mad, Bro?" after we lost in Seattle about 2 years before that game...the Tavon Wilson game where Russ Wilson saw that he bit on play action...and boom two late TD's...we were up 23-10 before that...IIRC. And the Seahawks got their revenge in 2016...the only game we lost that year with Brady at home...where Kam Chancellor definitely interfered with Gronk, but the refs let it go.

7.) IMO, that game exorcised our 2007/2011 demons.....the Tyree and Manningham catches.

8.) Yall know that Ricardo Lockette never played in the NFL again? Just like David Tyree. EDIT: Barely....8 targets 4 receptions before going on I/R and Tyree also played again in 2008/2009...but made a few ST tackles...that was it.

Right around 7 minutes