Notes on re-watching JAX@NE

[long distance]

Re-watched the game every player - every play (as far as interest went.. too far in any case, I know) so here some notes to share for those who care about our underdogs..

Part 1: OFFENSE

Needless to say but Jimmy is fun to watch in games. The fact that he can do that with 10 guys that will mostly not make the 53 let alone play in games against some starters on the other side (at the beginning at least) is really nice to see even in a vanilla game..

@RB

Lewis seemed to me somewhere between 2015 and 2016 version. I was surprised to see him out there that much carrying most snaps of 4 RBs.

Bolden looked quite lively, decisive and strong. Has better chance to make the team than most project at the moment. Its not so much that he looked the best RB out there on Thursday . he can be a serviceable backup: is a good blocker, reliable PP, can catch and still a core ST. So if he makes it I don't think they see him as only a core ST but also solid big back backup.

Foster and Daniels didn't show much to consider them for the team this yr. Foster looks a bit bigger but still seems caught between two positions excelling at neither. A good PS candidate and should clear waivers this year considering very deep RB draft (26 RBs drafted compared to 20 last yr and 21 on average).

@WR

Nothing new to say about Carr. Positive surprise was his game without the ball, feisty, engaged in blocking game, looked stronger, tougher then in college, great energy all-round.

Lucien looks a bit stronger but reports from practice and 1v1 clips were promising more than he showed in a game, somewhat similar to last yr. Most of all I didn't like his body language. f.e.: he was the only one not celebrating Carr's amazing TD and he was the closest to him.

Maye showed as advertised. I really liked his game, attitude, made the most of his snaps with or without the ball. Hope he sticks around. Great PS, spy option.

Washington virtually invisible.

@TE

Nothing new to say about Hollister. Looked tougher than I thought. Interesting thing to monitor will be how he and the coaches build up on Thu performance, will he see more ST snaps etc.

Cotton is a solid blocker (as advertised) & he looked better in routes and rec. than expected albeit against lower competition. Could be in play for PS, especially if others are “stolen“.

@OL

Karras was amazing. MVP in my book. Deserved his own thread here. Chatham called him “pocket cleaner“. At C he looked dominant every snap both in run and passing game. Looks like he can't be moved. I don't know about his IQ and leadership compared to Andrews but he looked like a starting C there. Very solid at both G positions as well. BTW - he played in the kicking game as well next to Grissom!

Croston was the most positive surprise of the night. By far second best OL player next to Karras. Very solid at RG not too bad at LT in the last Q. Played both T in college and showed the OL made in Iowa quality. If he can build up on that (and reportedly good practice) he could be a surprise candidate for 53 re his versatility to back up both G and both T positions esp. if the tackle backup struggles continue.

Douglas was up and down. Played mostly LG w some C in last Q. had some good moments but on the whole slight disappointment. Good PS option but times of PS should already be behind him..

Waddle and Fleming certainly didn't put the Qs of T position to rest. Waddle had one highlight reel play and showed some use of his long hands but many times looked painfully slow getting beaten by third stringers. Fleming was just a bit better overall but was overpowered on more occasions one would care to see in top swing T. Interestingly Waddle played some extra OL snaps on the left beside Fleming at LT.

Others didn't show much. Ferentz was regularly overpowered at C, McDermott looked lost and not ready most of the time, Rich and King didin't get many snaps; Rich who came in as T saw only RG snaps, King is not too bad and could be in play for PS depending on what happens to guys in front of him.
__

Some general OL thoughts: While Karras and Croston showing put my mind at peace regarding IOL ironically the T situation is worrisome. Fleming was very solid in the two games he played last year at both LT and RT so it is a surprise to see him struggling like that this TC and game. And i really don't like the idea of Waddle taking care of TB blind side. Troubles w Garcia are not helping the situation either and from 5 college tackles brought in this offseason the only one who showed he could help some at the position is Croston who is clearly a guard in Dante's book.

At the moment Id still go with Fleming as swing tackle, extra TE also because he is much better RT option than sluggish Waddle. If they keep both (and carry Garcia who might not be ready to contribute) it will be quite depressing outcome. If they carry 9OL bc of Garcia situation Id much rather see Croston over Waddle at the moment. Then again Croston could (hopefully) be stashed on PS.

 

[The Gr8est]

Nice seeing such positive reviews on Karras.

Looks like "Mongo want stay!"

 

[tasmlab]

I was surprised how much D. Lewis played as well. Practically the only player on the field that I recognized. Maybe they are trying to get his injury taken care of early this season and out of the way.

 

[irishfanatic]

Thank you LD for insights and info....always appreciated.

 

[Dagg]

I really hope all those Lewis carries weren't to showcase him as trade bait but that is the first thing that came to my mind...

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I wonder if McDermott had more trouble because they had him on the right side (if I recall). He played exclusively LT in college, at least in the games I watched.

Nice write up! Thanks for your time.

 

[Sfpat]

I'm surprised by all the negative reaction to Brissett, whom I thought looked pretty good doing what he was told to do. He overthrew the one out pattern, which if Brady has made that throw the blame would be on the receiver (Lucien I believe) for not making the catch. He made several good throws to keep drives alive. His one "bad" throw, IMO, was the seam route in the end zone. I discount the last drive under the circumstances.

Compared to some of the quarterbacking on other teams this past weekend, Brissett looked like a pro bowler. There are a lot of bad QBs out there.

 

[patchick]

Thanks for your insights! Amazing how heading into the offseason IOL depth was a real concern, then they didn't draft anybody and signed only UDFAs and street FAs...and now it's a strength. It just goes to show, you really know nothing until the pads go on.

 

[long distance]

I wonder if McDermott had more trouble because they had him on the right side (if I recall). He played exclusively LT in college, at least in the games I watched.

Nice write up! Thanks for your time.

Good point. Yep, exclusively RT for McD. Also not much LT for Fleming either. We'll see how it plays out. LT backup not looking pretty at the moment . but Dante is my valium there..
___

BTW - Notes on D coming up in an hour or so . for patient readers

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Good point. Yep, exclusively RT for McD. Also not much LT for Fleming either. We'll see how it plays out. LT backup not looking pretty at the moment . but Dante is my valium there..
___

BTW - Notes on D coming up in an hour or so . for patient readers

It's been over an hour. I'm not sure I qualify as a "patient" reader anymore.

 

[SalemPats]

I really hope all those Lewis carries weren't to showcase him as trade bait but that is the first thing that came to my mind...

I thought so too. With White established in his role as a pass cathcing back, Gillespie as tough back and burkhead as a solid backup, Dion is fighting for his role on the team

 

[BobDigital]

Good stuff and pretty much what I saw as well. Looking forward to part 2.

 

[long distance]

It's been over an hour. I'm not sure I qualify as a "patient" reader anymore.

Back to work then. Hopefully no distractions. Some Howe stats to pass the time
(not full or 100% accurate..)

 

[long distance]

Part 2: DEFENCE 1/2

@dt

Kilgo and Hamilton both had ups and downs of course . though this is probably a battle for PS. Kilgo had a better 1st half where Hamilton struggled quite a bit but had a strong return in 2nd half especially stopping the run. They have different skillset. Kilgo has better bull rush, looks stronger and more agile, Hamilton is a better two gapper. Will be interesting to see how this battle plays out. Kilgo might get interest from other teams if cut. Pats kept him on PS last year on active roster pay, Hamilton slightly less. Must say I expected a bit more of a progress from Woodrow after last year's jump from preseason to regular season games although I guess its easier to make it look good beside Branch and Brown. Hopefully he builds up on second half performance though that was lower competition..

Augusta was more down then up (no pun intended) still better than expected. Very intriguing player with his size and agility. Has potential for 2 gap and rush so Id guess he is worth keeping on PS and hope he can overcome his health issues and get in shape (after he earns enough to join the Guerrero party).

Butler is almost unanimously the surprise of TC so far and he played well on most part. Maybe not to the level of the hype (not many people can) but showed good guard at LOS against bigger boys and some flashes of interior rush already reported from practice field. His physique and athleticism will always have some limitations in the middle but put in combination with big pusher and two gapper like Branch f.e. could be very effective. Like @mainman mentioned he was double-teamed quite a lot which will be impossible w Branch, Brown/Guy, Flowers and High on the line And like the other Butler . he just finds ways to make plays so it would be nice to keep him around.

This week will be very important for him. Branch is back, also Valentine, snaps on 1st D will be harder to find. The good news is he saw “extensive work“ on ST today and they played him a lot as DE on Thursday . looks like they'd like to find a place for him . so don't look only at DT depth re Butler but also DE.

@DE

Wise looked like advertised in practice reports. Controlled LOS vertically and horizontally in running and passing game. Wins lots of 1v1. Looks so mature in his playing and body language. Gave us quite a scare Im sure when he remained on the ground. If he can stay healthy that would be huge for Pats DE woes..

Rivers on the other hand looked better than advertised in practice reports and that was a pleasure to see. Strong, agile, good effort. He will always struggle somewhat against big OTs with his short hands and doesn't have the size to be your designated DE . but if you move him around a bit he can be effective in many different ways. Looked good over rookie 2nr rd pick LT Robinson (as shown in clip posted in another thread). All those after-hours they put in together w Wise and Flowers could be seen.

It was fun to watch him in coverage which is new to him. Struggled quite a bit but showed good effort so will be interesting to watch how he can improve there. One moment defines DE story well: after Wise went down Ealy replaced him and the whole line was suddenly so much weaker. Soon after Rivers replaced Ealy at DE and the pressure was there the next play.

Ealy too depressed to add anything on the subject. He has the perfect body to be Pats DE . the worst body language though..

Grissom at least tries. At least he won a few 1v1 . unfortunately those are rare occasions. On the other hand it was very interesting to see how they used him. He was almost always lined up outside another DE . kind of OLB . but to little effect . not looking good in coverage at all the few times he tried. Possibly another after-Ninko experiment. He did play very well on ST again, very dependable on key position first line of D for returner (pairing w Karras surprisingly) so possibly they are trying to find something on D for him to succeed.

Kidder showed good effort, tough kid but didn't seem NFL cloth Im afraid.


extra note:

On 3rd down, first JAX drive it was fun to see this all-rookies DL lineup:
Langi-Wise-Butler-Rivers (Rivers got overpowered here)


Ok, I better cut this beast in half here..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Part 2: DEFENCE 1/2

@dt

Kilgo and Hamilton both had ups and downs of course . though this is probably a battle for PS. Kilgo had a better 1st half where Hamilton struggled quite a bit but had a strong return in 2nd half especially stopping the run. They have different skillset. Kilgo has better bull rush, looks stronger and more agile, Hamilton is a better two gapper. Will be interesting to see how this battle plays out. Kilgo might get interest from other teams if cut. Pats kept him on PS last year on active roster pay, Hamilton slightly less. Must say I expected a bit more of a progress from Woodrow after last year's jump from preseason to regular season games although I guess its easier to make it look good beside Branch and Brown. Hopefully he builds up on second half performance though that was lower competition..

Augusta was more down then up (no pun intended) still better than expected. Very intriguing player with his size and agility. Has potential for 2 gap and rush so Id guess he is worth keeping on PS and hope he can overcome his health issues and get in shape (after he earns enough to join the Guerrero party).

Butler is almost unanimously the surprise of TC so far and he played well on most part. Maybe not to the level of the hype (not many people can) but showed good guard at LOS against bigger boys and some flashes of interior rush already reported from practice field. His physique and athleticism will always have some limitations in the middle but put in combination with big pusher and two gapper like Branch f.e. could be very effective. Like @mainman mentioned he was double-teamed quite a lot which will be impossible w Branch, Brown/Guy, Flowers and High on the line And like the other Butler . he just finds ways to make plays so it would be nice to keep him around.

This week will be very important for him. Branch is back, also Valentine, snaps on 1st D will be harder to find. The good news is he saw “extensive work“ on ST today and they played him a lot as DE on Thursday . looks like they'd like to find a place for him . so don't look only at DT depth re Butler but also DE.

@DE

Wise looked like advertised in practice reports. Controlled LOS vertically and horizontally in running and passing game. Wins lots of 1v1. Looks so mature in his playing and body language. Gave us quite a scare Im sure when he remained on the ground. If he can stay healthy that would be huge for Pats DE woes..

Rivers on the other hand looked better than advertised in practice reports and that was a pleasure to see. Strong, agile, good effort. He will always struggle somewhat against big OTs with his short hands and doesn't have the size to be your designated DE . but if you move him around a bit he can be effective in many different ways. Looked good over rookie 2nr rd pick LT Robinson (as shown in clip posted in another thread). All those after-hours they put in together w Wise and Flowers could be seen.

It was fun to watch him in coverage which is new to him. Struggled quite a bit but showed good effort so will be interesting to watch how he can improve there. One moment defines DE story well: after Wise went down Ealy replaced him and the whole line was suddenly so much weaker. Soon after Rivers replaced Ealy at DE and the pressure was there the next play.

Ealy too depressed to add anything on the subject. He has the perfect body to be Pats DE . the worst body language though..

Grissom at least tries. At least he won a few 1v1 . unfortunately those are rare occasions. On the other hand it was very interesting to see how they used him. He was almost always lined up outside another DE . kind of OLB . but to little effect . not looking good in coverage at all the few times he tried. Possibly another after-Ninko experiment. He did play very well on ST again, very dependable on key position first line of D for returner (pairing w Karras surprisingly) so possibly they are trying to find something on D for him to succeed.

Kidder showed good effort, tough kid but didn't seem NFL cloth Im afraid.


General on DL:

On 3rd down, first JAX drive it was fun to see this all-rookies DL lineup:
Langi-Wise-Butler-Rivers (Rivers got overpowered here)


Ok, I better cut this beast in half here..

I can't wait to see how the blend with our defense in the coming years.

They look like great fits & complements for what we have.

 

[long distance]

Ok, lets finish this saga..

Part 3: DEFENCE 2/2

@LB

Honestly I don't know how this unit plays out. Big group of solid players - each w at least one flaw - for a team that plays 3LBs some 20% of the time.

Going by practices . Hightower and Harris seem like starters with one of KVN and McC on the side (but so much will depend of the scheme and matchups..). These were LBs not playing on Thursday. Moving on..

Roberts - strong ups and downs like always. Hard to say there was much improvement in coverage or overplaying. Many wrong reads, hurried plays. The most visible change was in his stance: very vocal, commanding, confident despite mistakes. Great attitude, energy . he might be too eager hence many mistakes. But when he takes the right decision . he makes big play. Still liability - but such a magnificent hitting/tackling machine!

Freeny - mostly played OLB. Not too bad, strong presence at the end of the line, good contain, also some RB coverage on the outside runs. Liability at MLB, coverage in space. Poor instincts. Slow in reaction. My note says: if the play comes to him he's ok; if he has to come to the play he is a big liability.

That is key difference between him and Roberts and also the reason why Id always take Roberts if it was between them despite size.

Langi - it was great to see that a lot of good reports from practice transferred to the game. Played well at different positions, played a lot and well on all ST units. Looks strong, quite fast, good in traffic, lateral, no hesitation, always active, aware; also intelligent, mature (unfortunately don't have stats for this), found ways to rush from different positions, also from DE, won some 1v1 against bigger guys, overpowers, outmaneuveres TEs (going against Gronk and Allen pays off). Excited to see more . even consistency in what he showed would be good enough.

Just look at firs D sequence if you have a chance (from OLB position on-line): run stop, perfect tight coverage of TE, outside rush. Not bad for an UDFA against some starters. Reminded me of Ninko quite a lot.
> hot take: Mingo “replacement“ that could end up Ninko “replacement“

Bates - saw same number of snaps like Roberts, most at MLB . still almost invisible. Can't stop the run most of the time, weak near LOS, poor in traffic, getting off blocks; more spectator than actor. Only LB i didn't see on ST plays which is not a good sign.

Ellis - not much to report. did play some ST

@S

Richards - much was said already. like in practice played a lot of FS where he really struggles. They are thin at FS but forcing Richards there doesn't look good. The few snaps he played closer to the line looked much better, esp. when Cyrus assumed a clear FS position. Very good on ST w some captain-like duties. Wouldn't write him off just yet . but he is clearly limited in what he can do.

Travis - Very good game as “starter“ on the night. Showed vs run and in coverage. Showed some good awareness, decisiveness and efficient tackling . two big run stops, confident presence, also good in coverage in RZ, late at one open field coverage; great to see his college “highlights“ translate to “NFL“ so early. Played ST. Could be a keeper.

Unfortunately suffered some kind of injury and didn't come back in second half (today he wore red shirt) . i really hope he can get back to work asap.

Thompson - some nice tackles but overall pretty lost in space, one unnecessary PI for big loss, not decisive enough, not tough enough close to LOS, not good in traffic. Played plenty on ST esp. after Travis went out.

@CB

JJ - didn't play much. some ups and downs in slot coverage. good run stop. ST as expected.

Cyrus - nothing new to add.

Coleman - not much noted. solid presence. once beaten on the outside run. Played some gunner at ST.

Moore - twice beaten on across route. not much thrown his way. played gunner on ST and looked fast and good compliment to JJ (w less tackling effect)

Killings - didn't play much but left strong impression. two big run stops w great reads, reaction and perfect tackles. Looked solid in coverage. Saw snaps as gunner on ST. Mix that w multiple reports of his understanding of the game, film study, leadership etc and you can have a surprise in the making. (btw - exact same size as Butler, just a little faster; also similar characteristics (issues in deep coverage but good tackler, feisty competitor..)

Likely - did not play. likely gone.


can't type anymore . can only admire PFK

 

[Tony2046]

Ok, lets finish this saga..

Part 3: DEFENCE 2/2

@LB

Honestly I don't know how this unit plays out. Big group of solid players - each w at least one flaw - for a team that plays 3LBs some 20% of the time.

Going by practices . Hightower and Harris seem like starters with one of KVN and McC on the side (but so much will depend of the scheme and matchups..). These were LBs not playing on Thursday. Moving on..

Roberts - strong ups and downs like always. Hard to say there was much improvement in coverage or overplaying. Many wrong reads, hurried plays. The most visible change was in his stance: very vocal, commanding, confident despite mistakes. Great attitude, energy . he might be too eager hence many mistakes. But when he takes the right decision . he makes big play. Still liability - but such a magnificent hitting/tackling machine!

Freeny - mostly played OLB. Not too bad, strong presence at the end of the line, good contain, also some RB coverage on the outside runs. Liability at MLB, coverage in space. Poor instincts. Slow in reaction. My note says: if the play comes to him he's ok; if he has to come to the play he is a big liability.

That is key difference between him and Roberts and also the reason why Id always take Roberts if it was between them despite size.

Langi - it was great to see that a lot of good reports from practice transferred to the game. Played well at different positions, played a lot and well on all ST units. Looks strong, quite fast, good in traffic, lateral, no hesitation, always active, aware; also intelligent, mature (unfortunately don't have stats for this), found ways to rush from different positions, also from DE, won some 1v1 against bigger guys, overpowers, outmaneuveres TEs (going against Gronk and Allen pays off). Excited to see more . even consistency in what he showed would be good enough.

Just look at firs D sequence if you have a chance (from OLB position on-line): run stop, perfect tight coverage of TE, outside rush. Not bad for an UDFA against some starters. Reminded me of Ninko quite a lot.
> hot take: Mingo “replacement“ that could end up Ninko “replacement“

Bates - saw same number of snaps like Roberts, most at MLB . still almost invisible. Can't stop the run most of the time, weak near LOS, poor in traffic, getting off blocks; more spectator than actor. Only LB i didn't see on ST plays which is not a good sign.

Ellis - not much to report. did play some ST

@S

Richards - much was said already. like in practice played a lot of FS where he really struggles. They are thin at FS but forcing Richards there doesn't look good. The few snaps he played closer to the line looked much better, esp. when Cyrus assumed a clear FS position. Very good on ST w some captain-like duties. Wouldn't write him off just yet . but he is clearly limited in what he can do.

Travis - Very good game as “starter“ on the night. Showed vs run and in coverage. Showed some good awareness, decisiveness and efficient tackling . two big run stops, confident presence, also good in coverage in RZ, late at one open field coverage; great to see his college “highlights“ translate to “NFL“ so early. Played ST. Could be a keeper.

Unfortunately suffered some kind of injury and didn't come back in second half (today he wore red shirt) . i really hope he can get back to work asap.

Thompson - some nice tackles but overall pretty lost in space, one unnecessary PI for big loss, not decisive enough, not tough enough close to LOS, not good in traffic. Played plenty on ST esp. after Travis went out.

@CB

JJ - didn't play much. some ups and downs in slot coverage. good run stop. ST as expected.

Cyrus - nothing new to add.

Coleman - not much noted. solid presence. once beaten on the outside run. Played some gunner at ST.

Moore - twice beaten on across route. not much thrown his way. played gunner on ST and looked fast and good compliment to JJ (w less tackling effect)

Killings - didn't play much but left strong impression. two big run stops w great reads, reaction and perfect tackles. Looked solid in coverage. Saw snaps as gunner on ST. Mix that w multiple reports of his understanding of the game, film study, leadership etc and you can have a surprise in the making. (btw - exact same size as Butler, just a little faster; also similar characteristics (issues in deep coverage but good tackler, feisty competitor..)

Likely - did not play. likely gone.


can't type anymore . can only admire PFK

No mention of A. Brown????

I feel like I don't know who you are anymore.

 

[luuked]

Great read..

Croston sounds like the ideal PS candidate to be honest. He is not flashy enough to be claimed by anyone except maybe one of the teams we have joint practices with and will need another season of development but could be a contributor in a year.

Cant wait for this weeks practice reports and game. We might finally see some patterns forming and things becoming a bit more clear.

 

[long distance]

No mention of A. Brown????

I feel like I don't know who you are anymore.

Sounds funny but not sure which A. Brown you mean . must be getting old..

 

[Tony2046]

Sounds funny but not sure which A. Brown you mean . must be getting old..

Damn. I guess I don't know who anyone is anymore.

I meant A. Butler