Not Taking the Wind is a Fireable Offense

[Ian]

Every team has many reports of pursuing players, visits, making offers, interest, etc etc.
you’ve shown me nothing to refute what it clearly looks like, these Re the guys he wanted and the team he wanted to build.

There’s not a report on every single person they reach out to.

Ugh. Saying he isn’t stupid enough to do what I clearly see he did is the same thing saying I’m calling him stupid.

No, it’s not.

Wait, you are blaming his awful draft pick on fans and ownership.
My god is he your cousin? I have literally never seen a poster make more excuse for a guy than you are making for him. Everything isn’t his fault. What kind of leader need excuses made for everything he touches?

No, but you and I don’t currently possess the same blind hatred for him, either.

Next year - not this year - will begin to tell the real story when it comes to his ability as a personnel person. He went into this offseason hamstrung by the league-wide perception among players about the dumpster fire things were in March. They had Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe, no skill players, no tight ends, no Belichick, and were coming off a 4-12 season. As we found out, all the money in the world couldn’t overcome that.

Again, that’s not just my opinion, which is based on reports from reputable reporters who were closer to that situation. Maye will absolutely make a difference next March.

There are not reports that no players wanted to come here. There may be reports than we weren’t the top destination of a few players but there were over 100 who could have helped us.

Yes, there were reports that they were spurned and leveraged multiple times. We saw it recently during the Aiyuk thing. He did the same thing and preferred Pittsburgh, despite how much money the Patriots threw at him.

Again, players in demand have their pick of where they go. Lesser players have fewer choices and some even only have one. The ones who had little were the ones they signed. That was our reality this offseason.

You don’t believe that and you keep acting like all things being equal, or slightly above, top players would pick here over elsewhere. That wouldn’t have happened without resetting the market and by paying guys who didn’t deserve it, which then messes up things for your own players down the road.

I’ve already repeated this, but you disagree. Which is fine. But if they also grossly overpaid to give a player a deal that was so insane to turn down that he’d be out of his mind to not come here, Wolf would have been eviscerated for that given the problems it would have created, and rightfully so.

Of course you misquoted me, unless you think your opinion on what my point of view is would be more accurate than my own.

No, I didn’t. And yes, I do believe your opinion isn’t accurate because there’s no way GMs pick up the phone single digit times over two months. And as I said, If that’s indeed the case, then I would 100% fire him. No questions asked. But I don’t believe that was the case.

And I fall under the mindset that it’s easy to say “fire this guy” but he has to be replaced. His body of work prior to coming here makes me believe he deserves more than one offseason with better circumstances (Maye’s development) to at least allow the guy a fighting chance to convince guys to come here.

And no, I don’t think anyone else would have fared much better convincing guys, save for Belichick, for reasons I’ve already said.

 

[Ian]

Every team has many reports of pursuing players, visits, making offers, interest, etc etc.
you’ve shown me nothing to refute what it clearly looks like, these Re the guys he wanted and the team he wanted to build.

Ugh. Saying he isn’t stupid enough to do what I clearly see he did is the same thing saying I’m calling him stupid.

Wait, you are blaming his awful draft pick on fans and ownership.
My god is he your cousin? I have literally never seen a poster make more excuse for a guy than you are making for him. Everything isn’t his fault. What kind of leader need excuses made for everything he touches?

There are not reports that no players wanted to come here. There may be reports than we weren’t the top destination of a few players but there were over 100 who could have helped us.

Of course you misquoted me, unless you think your opinion on what my point of view is would be more accurate than my own.

And you’ll notice that I have more confidence in Wolf than Mayo. I have some doubts there as he’s a good supervisor but those guys can’t be successful without solid managers.

Now, in saying that, (to use a phrase I type out a lot in his press conferences) I don’t yet know how well that translates when it comes to being an NFL head coach. So far, it hasn’t gone well.

And I haven’t seen enough in-game from him to feel confident he’s got what it takes to be “the guy” yet. Unlike Bill, there’s no gathering of players and discussing adjustments or firing the guys up. But his off the field public comments have me concerned (and should have had ownership concerned), so we’ll see if he evolves enough to make me feel otherwise.

 

[sportnik]

And you’ll notice that I have more confidence in Wolf than Mayo. I have some doubts there as he’s a good supervisor but those guys can’t be successful without solid managers.

Now, in saying that, (to use a phrase I type out a lot in his press conferences) I don’t yet know how well that translates when it comes to being an NFL head coach. So far, it hasn’t gone well.

And I haven’t seen enough in-game from him to feel confident he’s got what it takes to be “the guy” yet. Unlike Bill, there’s no gathering of players and discussing adjustments or firing the guys up. But his off the field public comments have me concerned (and should have had ownership concerned), so we’ll see if he evolves enough to make me feel otherwise.

Mayo is such an unmitigated disaster as HC, that I’m going to give everyone else (Wolf & AVP in particular) the benefit of the doubt until we can see how they perform without being burdened with what might be the most unqualified HC the NFL has seen in a generation.

 

[p8ryts]

I have never argued that Belichick didn’t start taking more input from his staff, I know for a fact that he gave credit to Wolf for making the Barmore trade, and he let Ernie Adams pick a player in Adams last draft with the team. My only point has been that Belichick always had the final say, and thus the accountability that goes with that responsibility. Wozzy, on the other hand, has been claiming that Belichick’s bad decisions were actually decisions made by his underlings, who overruled him, which is complete fantasy.

Only the SHADOW knows.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Only the SHADOW knows.

So you are saying that Wozzy has a nickname?

 

[Huckleberry1]

There’s not a report on every single person they reach out to.

No, it’s not.

No, but you and I don’t currently possess the same blind hatred for him, either.

Next year - not this year - will begin to tell the real story when it comes to his ability as a personnel person. He went into this offseason hamstrung by the league-wide perception among players about the dumpster fire things were in March. They had Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe, no skill players, no tight ends, no Belichick, and were coming off a 4-12 season. As we found out, all the money in the world couldn’t overcome that.

Again, that’s not just my opinion, which is based on reports from reputable reporters who were closer to that situation. Maye will absolutely make a difference next March.

Yes, there were reports that they were spurned and leveraged multiple times. We saw it recently during the Aiyuk thing. He did the same thing and preferred Pittsburgh, despite how much money the Patriots threw at him.

Again, players in demand have their pick of where they go. Lesser players have fewer choices and some even only have one. The ones who had little were the ones they signed. That was our reality this offseason.

You don’t believe that and you keep acting like all things being equal, or slightly above, top players would pick here over elsewhere. That wouldn’t have happened without resetting the market and by paying guys who didn’t deserve it, which then messes up things for your own players down the road.

I’ve already repeated this, but you disagree. Which is fine. But if they also grossly overpaid to give a player a deal that was so insane to turn down that he’d be out of his mind to not come here, Wolf would have been eviscerated for that given the problems it would have created, and rightfully so.

No, I didn’t. And yes, I do believe your opinion isn’t accurate because there’s no way GMs pick up the phone single digit times over two months. And as I said, If that’s indeed the case, then I would 100% fire him. No questions asked. But I don’t believe that was the case.

And I fall under the mindset that it’s easy to say “fire this guy” but he has to be replaced. His body of work prior to coming here makes me believe he deserves more than one offseason with better circumstances (Maye’s development) to at least allow the guy a fighting chance to convince guys to come here.

And no, I don’t think anyone else would have fared much better convincing guys, save for Belichick, for reasons I’ve already said.

Agree completely with all of this. I would add that the biggest problem with the quick fixes people wanted in free agency and trades is that the money you use to get jags to make better in the short term the less money you have down the road to get guys you really want to fill major holes you couldn’t address in your draft’s, and to build around. If you are going to give a WR 30 million a season they better be at All Pro level every season, and not a 2 getting 1 money. And when you use a high pick to trade for a veteran player you hamstring your draft options, when the draft is what you have to build the core of your team. Everyone wants them to win, but fans don’t have to live with the consequences that go with a quick fix mentality, the GM does. To me a longer term systematic build is the best way to approach building a long term contender, which is how you win Super Bowl’s, and we have no better examples of the failed quick fix approaches than in our own division with the Jets and Dolphins, who are both heading in the wrong direction after spending and trading big in short term efforts to get a Lombardi.

 

[p8ryts]

So you are saying that Wozzy has a nickname?

No, its a saying from an old radio show before most of you were born. You know, radio, no picture included.

 

[Huckleberry1]

No, its a saying from an old radio show before most of you were born. You know, radio, no picture included.

I know, once again, I was joking.

 

[Huckleberry1]

There’s not a report on every single person they reach out to.

No, it’s not.

No, but you and I don’t currently possess the same blind hatred for him, either.

Next year - not this year - will begin to tell the real story when it comes to his ability as a personnel person. He went into this offseason hamstrung by the league-wide perception among players about the dumpster fire things were in March. They had Mac Jones, Bailey Zappe, no skill players, no tight ends, no Belichick, and were coming off a 4-12 season. As we found out, all the money in the world couldn’t overcome that.

Again, that’s not just my opinion, which is based on reports from reputable reporters who were closer to that situation. Maye will absolutely make a difference next March.

Yes, there were reports that they were spurned and leveraged multiple times. We saw it recently during the Aiyuk thing. He did the same thing and preferred Pittsburgh, despite how much money the Patriots threw at him.

Again, players in demand have their pick of where they go. Lesser players have fewer choices and some even only have one. The ones who had little were the ones they signed. That was our reality this offseason.

You don’t believe that and you keep acting like all things being equal, or slightly above, top players would pick here over elsewhere. That wouldn’t have happened without resetting the market and by paying guys who didn’t deserve it, which then messes up things for your own players down the road.

I’ve already repeated this, but you disagree. Which is fine. But if they also grossly overpaid to give a player a deal that was so insane to turn down that he’d be out of his mind to not come here, Wolf would have been eviscerated for that given the problems it would have created, and rightfully so.

No, I didn’t. And yes, I do believe your opinion isn’t accurate because there’s no way GMs pick up the phone single digit times over two months. And as I said, If that’s indeed the case, then I would 100% fire him. No questions asked. But I don’t believe that was the case.

And I fall under the mindset that it’s easy to say “fire this guy” but he has to be replaced. His body of work prior to coming here makes me believe he deserves more than one offseason with better circumstances (Maye’s development) to at least allow the guy a fighting chance to convince guys to come here.

And no, I don’t think anyone else would have fared much better convincing guys, save for Belichick, for reasons I’ve already said.

I honestly don’t care if Mayo stays or goes as head coach, to me only two things matter in that regard. The first is that the head coach they see as THE long term answer is both available and willing to come to the Patriots. The second is that the offensive system or variation of it remains. The worst thing aside from the OL getting Maye killed is to change offensive systems on him year after year. And under no circumstances do I want to see him going back to the E-P offensive system.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I'd like to see it happen, but has any NFL head coach ever resigned, with the exception of retiring because of old age?

Off the top of my head, Tommy Prothro. Great football guy, knew his Chargers were much better than they were playing under him, did the unselfish thing.

His replacement, Don Coryell, took off with them.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Good job summarizing his failures as a head coach.
As a resident of Denver for the past 20 years I can not remember a player or coach as reviled as Josh was and still is.

I think it's fascinating how two hugely successful assistants in McDaniels & Patricia were so bad as HC's.

Tom worked well with Josh. Period. Success with Cassel or Jones or whoever was carryover.

Bill worked well with Matt. Now, Patricia is not alone in first time HC's who had trouble, but it wasn't as horrendous as with Josh.

Contrary to the rest of the world, I consider Patricia to be a decent or better OC...with Zappe under center, of course.

 

[captain stone]

Mayo is such an unmitigated disaster as HC, that I’m going to give everyone else (Wolf & AVP in particular) the benefit of the doubt until we can see how they perform without being burdened with what might be the most unqualified HC the NFL has seen in a generation.

I believe it’s the opposite: Ron Wolf’s & Al Groh’s kids have been such unmitigated disasters as Grocery Shoppers that I’m willing to give MayoNays one more year to get his own **** together before kicking him to the curb too.

#FireRonWolf’s&AlGroh’sKidsNOW