NFL Teams : Free Weights vs. Machines

[Phokus]

I'm curious, how did you take and cycle your creatine? It's a pain in the butt to make sure you take it four times a day for the first week or so, then once a day for the next few weeks, then a couple weeks off, then started the re-load again. Also, what did you take it with? (They recommend grape juice for some reason.)

I just started, so i haven't 'cycled' it yet... I don't think i'm going to cycle off the creatine. I took 4 5 gram scoops of creatine daily spaced out fairly evenly. Each scoop also had 30 grams of dextrose (simple sugars help your body absorb even more creatine). I'm now on my maintanence phase where i take about 7 grams of creatine a day (most people take 5 grams, but i'm heavy).

 

[Phokus]

You should also drink protein as well as it keeps the healing time down and lets you keep working out longer. But if you take Protein take it a half hour later or before your creatine, never mix or drink one right after another because it destroys the creatine and makes it into something different. I cant remember what its called but cre-x or something? I cant remember but its basically just turn to crap in your stomach literally.

So if you have any questions just PM me or ask it here i dont mind.

Are you sure about not mixing protein and creatine? I did that sometimes during my loading phase... i heard the only thing you shouldn't mix creatine with is citrius drinks as that turns creatine into creatanine.

 

[Phokus]

Ok i asked a bodybuilding forum and the reasoning for splitting up the protein drink with the creatine is because creatine gets absorbed better on an empty stomach... not that it creates creatinine when you drink w/ protein...

So i guess: drink creatine on an empty stomach and don't drink with citrus drinks.

 

[Patjew]

BTW THE PATRIOTS HAVE BOTH MACHINES AND FREE WEIGHT IN A STATE OF THE ART GYM.

That's right. I was blown away by the size of the gym. I saw more machines there than I had expected, but there were free weights, too.

I'll try to attach a couple of pics. Sorry for the poor quality.

 

[Patjew]

PS- that's Rodney spotting Eugene Wilson bench pressing.

 

[Phokus]

PS- that's Rodney spotting Eugene Wilson bench pressing.

You snuck inside and took pics?

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

You snuck inside and took pics?

Get ready to be green with envy.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=34063&highlight=Amazing

 

[Patjew]

Here are a few more pics. One is the locker room, another a sign from the film room, and the field (with a tarp on it). That's Jonathan Kraft in the locker room. Brady's locker is 2/3 down on the right.

Man, I hope it's OK to post these. I presume it is, since they were OK with us taking pics.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

As long as we're talking weights, what about supplementation? Anyone notice significant benefits from creatine?

No creatine. High numbers of brain cancer in creatine users according to my doctor. I use 'Muscle Milk' prior to and after workouts. I also have some whey in the morning and a protein shake with lunch. Ive seen pretty strong results with Muscle Milk, which tastes great unlike most protein drinks.

 

[PSU]

Sooner...you homophobic?

 

[big mike]

I can't stand free weights but I do think there is a difference in the kind of workout you get in free vs. machine. My problem with frees is the time it takes to get in a work out and often you have to have a spotter. At my gym most of the people that work with frees spend about 3 out of every 10 minutes lifting and the other setting up and staring at themselves in the mirror.

Free weights are far, far, far, far better than machines if your goal is building functional muscle. The reason most of us who primarily use free weights spend a smaller percentage of time actually doing the exercises is because free weights tax the muscles much more than machines, so you need more rest between sets.

In general, the more muscle groups involved in an exercise, and the more degrees of freedom involved, the higher the neuro-muscular activation and therefore the more intensely it actually works the muscles.

 

[big mike]

I just started, so i haven't 'cycled' it yet... I don't think i'm going to cycle off the creatine. I took 4 5 gram scoops of creatine daily spaced out fairly evenly. Each scoop also had 30 grams of dextrose (simple sugars help your body absorb even more creatine). I'm now on my maintanence phase where i take about 7 grams of creatine a day (most people take 5 grams, but i'm heavy).

The best thing to take creatine with is something with simple sugars AND phosphorous (such as gatorade). The creatine is stored in our bodies as creatine phosphate (BTW, creatine is something we normally get from various foods - the average person just doesn't get as much as they could benefit from getting if they do heavy weightlifting). So, to make the most use of it, you need to have some phosphorous available as well (the simple sugars help it get processed quickly). And you shouldn't have anything high in protein within about 15 minutes of taking the creatine - since glutamine (primary protein in muscle) processing uses the same receptor as for creatine, so you'll end up inhibiting the absorption of creatine.

There's no need to do the initial stage of taking a whole bunch of it - supplement companies just tell people to do that so they'll need to buy more of it. There's also really no reason to cycle on and off.

 

[big mike]

No creatine. High numbers of brain cancer in creatine users according to my doctor.

That's pure garbage. Creatine is a naturally occuring substance found in various foods we normally eat (especially in meat). Can you (or your doctor) point to an actual study that claims higher rates of brain cancer in creatine users?

 

[SeanBruschi54]

That's pure garbage. Creatine is a naturally occuring substance found in various foods we normally eat (especially in meat). Can you (or your doctor) point to an actual study that claims higher rates of brain cancer in creatine users?

Exactly there is no study that proves that creatine does anything but make your body stonger and in mass. Though they do believe that in very few cases in developes kidney stones and may or may not help pr hurt your heart in years to come.

 

[big mike]

Hands down the best training any athlete can do is PLYOMETRICS. Most if not all marginal athletes are only playing (in this case the NFL) due to Plyometrics. Free vs Machine weights is secondary to this.

Free weights, and practicing on the field is the best training a football player can do IMO.

As far as Free vs Machine IMO it's all about what type of muscle that you have. Fast twitch vs slow twitch and who is in the weight room to help you.

Whether you work fast twitch or only slow twitch depends on how you do the exercises, not whether it's on a machine or free weights.

Machines are great and at their best when doing the (NEGS). Negatives are where your real top notch athletes have their real strength.

You can do negatives with free weights just as well.

Machines are very good at increasing your lactic acid threshold...enabling you to work harder and longer even though your muscles are screaming with L.A..

I don't see how you can say that - whether you work the lactic acid system or not depends on how you're doing the exercises (i.e. ATP energy system, lactic acid energy system, or aerobic energy system depends on the intensity of the workout in terms of how difficult the muscles have to strain) - not whether they're with free weights or machines.

Anyways...off the top of my head with what I remmeber from my "BUFF" days. I'm not sure how true it was but we used to say that the machines helped build your strength quicker due to their concentrated approach.

We say that machines are for girls. Actually, I use *some* machines, just because they're nice to do at the end of a workout to burn out a muscle (i.e. pec deck at the end of a chest workout, etc.). But, overall, you'll get a MUCH better workout, and better results with free weights. PLus, most machines guide you along the resistance path so much that you don't get much work for the ancillary muscles, so you don't end up building those, and strengthening the supporting muscles as much as needed.

They made the "NEGS" easier to do alone because you didn't have to worry about killing yourself. The free weights we always thought gave your body a more wholesome muscular look and feel because of balance they tended to work more little muscles.

That I agree with.

 

[big mike]

It really depends on how you use the machine or free weights. If you're doing high reps/low weight, you're going to improve your muscle blood flow and promote growth of "slow twitch" or Type I muscle fibres. This is more of what you see in endurance athletes, like Lance Armstrong. If you're doing low reps/high weight, you're going to improve your strength and promote growth of "fast twitch" or Type II muscle fibres. This is what most power lifters are growing.

Exactly. And the high weight/low reps works the ATP energy system (ATP (Adenosine Tri-Phosphate) is the energy source for muscles that they use for exerting high force. As the ATP is depleted (loses a phosphorous, turning to ADP), the body turns the ADP back to ATP with the Creatine Phosphate reserves - which is how creatine supplementation helps out. It can let you get an extra rep or two, working the muscles harder, etc.). As the weight decreases and reps increase, you start shifting to the lactic acid system. Decrease resistance further and increase reps more, and you start moving into the aerobic energy system.

 

[big mike]

this thread is great

i actually use both, but mostly free weights
and yes i call them frees too

for bench though i use the smith press, cuz i dont like goin to the gym with other ppl (too much socializing when you go with a friend) and dont have a spotter
but for anything else with frees you really dont need a spotter

You can use dumbbells for pressing without a spotter. I feel dumbbells are better than barbell benching anyway - more degrees of freedom, works the supporting muscles better.

 

[Patjew]

Mike, you don't happen to work out, do you?

 

[big mike]

Mike, you don't happen to work out, do you?

heh heh

 

[Jacky Roberts]

That's pure garbage. Creatine is a naturally occuring substance found in various foods we normally eat (especially in meat). Can you (or your doctor) point to an actual study that claims higher rates of brain cancer in creatine users?

What he told me was the body creates creatine on its own and adding large amounts of it can lead to brain cancer. To be honest, that was enough for me to throw the stuff out. I haven't used the stuff in over a year and I've added about 20 pounds of muscle just using muscle milk and protein shakes to supplement my workouts.