NFL Films: Brady 21st All Time Best Player

[PatsSox363804]

Lots of great points in this thread.

I believe Manning, while certainly one of the all-time greats, is definitely the beneficiary of anti-Patriots sentiment in the media and around the country.

Brady would be the greatest quarterback of his generation, but if one despises the Patriots, one cannot support Brady. An alternative is a necessity -- hence the support for Manning, the anti-Brady.

I also agree that hindsight will benefit Brady's ranking. Once Belichick and Brady have stepped away from the game, and all the anti-Patriots rancor has diminished, I believe Brady will be acknowleged as one of the top two or three quarterbacks of all time.

ETA: To be quite candid, Brady's diminished ranking is really a byproduct of the media's contempt for Belichick, who refuses to genuflect before them. In a fit of pique, they have elevated Manning to near godhood to diminish Brady and somehow repay Belichick, IMHO.

It's definitely part of it. Another part is that Manning wants to be the leagues main attraction so he constantly does commercials and puts himself in front of the cameras whereas Brady does not. Also, Brady is married to a supermodel and lives in that sort of high fashion lifestyle, which the NFL knows a large part of the fan base won't relate to as much as Mannings "good ole boy" routine.

Their ballwashing of Manning is getting ridiculous though. They were DYING to label him the greatest of all time last year before the Superbowl and they completely ignored a Saints team that was better in every meaningful statistic because well "the Colts have Peyton Manning." When he threw that pick-6 every sportswriter in the country had to write a new article.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

People seem to forget how unprecedented Brady's production is. No multiple SB winner has ever lead the league in touchdowns more times than Brady. He's also the only multiple SB winner to lead the league in passing yards multiple times. Simply put, no multiple SB winner has ever been relied upon to generate as much offense as Brady.

/devil's advocate
Question, how many times has Brady led the league in either TDs or yards?
I can think of only 1 definite year, and I don't think he even led in yards that year did he? Also I would say with only 10ish or less QBs ever winning more than 1 SB, you're not comparing to that many people...

It's definitely part of it. Another part is that Manning wants to be the leagues main attraction so he constantly does commercials and puts himself in front of the cameras whereas Brady does not. Also, Brady is married to a supermodel and lives in that sort of high fashion lifestyle, which the NFL knows a large part of the fan base won't relate to as much as Mannings "good ole boy" routine.

Their ballwashing of Manning is getting ridiculous though. They were DYING to label him the greatest of all time last year before the Superbowl and they completely ignored a Saints team that was better in every meaningful statistic because well "the Colts have Peyton Manning." When he threw that pick-6 every sportswriter in the country had to write a new article.

I'm sorry, but some of his commercials are hilarious. His SNL performace was also greater than Brady's SNL performance, so he should win the funny guy award.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It's also a talent vs. effort thing. Manning couldn't win without a decent defense and running game either. But no one in the media bothers to contemplate that. Manning was a bonefide...#1 draft pick. Brady projected as a clip board holder at best... Sure, Montana was drafted in the 3rd, but Brady obviously benefitted from a system and HC (like Montana didn't...LOL). Perception, and a somewhat snobbish one at that is also part of it where Tom is concerned. I think that's why the rings matter so much to him, the media has no say in voting those.

I forget if it was in 2003 or 2004 but in one of those season when he was passed over for the pro bowl Felger asked him if that ticked him off. His answer was F the pro bowl, I'm going to the HOF. It's all in how you measure greatness.

I think the most pathetic thing is the way Prime Time is carrying on over not making the top 3...by about 30. LOL

 

[TheComeback]

/devil's advocate
Question, how many times has Brady led the league in either TDs or yards?
I can think of only 1 definite year, and I don't think he even led in yards that year did he? Also I would say with only 10ish or less QBs ever winning more than 1 SB, you're not comparing to that many people...



I'm sorry, but some of his commercials are hilarious. His SNL performace was also greater than Brady's SNL performance, so he should win the funny guy award.

Just FYI Mr. Peyton Lover, Brady has led the league in touchdowns in more years than 2007. He is a better quarterback than Manning.

From Brady's Wikipedia page, for the people are obsessed with stats when ranking QBs:

"Brady holds numerous regular season and postseason records, including most touchdown passes in a regular season (50), highest single-game completion percentage, regular season or postseason (26/28, 92.9%), most completions in one Super Bowl, most completions in Super Bowl history (career), the highest winning percentage of any quarterback ever during his first 100 starts (76 wins), and the longest streak of games with 3 or more touchdown passes (10 games). Brady is the fourth-fastest player to reach 200 career passing touchdowns (116 games). He is the first quarterback in NFL history to have reached said mark with under 100 career interceptions (he had 88 interceptions)."

If that's not enough to convince you that Brady belongs in the top 3 QBs of all time, then you can have fun drooling over Peyton's next commercial. Brady's one of the two best postseason quarterbacks of all time, the other being Montana, and not only that, he's one of the best regular season quarterbacks of all time, too.

 

[lurker1965]

These lists always glorify the old timers and always underrate the current players.

I'd agree that Brady belongs above Favre and Marino. After that, there's at least room for argument. By the time he retires he'll be in the top 10-15 talk.

No on the top 10-15. I agree he belongs around there, but remember who makes these lists are usually morons trying to generate web site hits.

 

[BradyManny]

It's a complete and utter joke if Favre is in the top 20 and ahead of Brady. Truly. That doesn't make any sense, whatsoever.

That said, the Manning-Brady rivalry is - hopefully - far from being settled. Another ring from either of them would sway things considerably. Both of them have some serious things stacked against them this year (major injuries to both teams) - if either wins a ring this year, it would be epic. I'd say Brady has the better shot, and it really would cement his legacy.

And FWIW, had David Tyree dropped the helmet pass, I have no doubt that Brady is in the top 10 of all-time.

 

[lurker1965]

/devil's advocate
Question, how many times has Brady led the league in either TDs or yards?
I can think of only 1 definite year, and I don't think he even led in yards that year did he? Also I would say with only 10ish or less QBs ever winning more than 1 SB, you're not comparing to that many people...
...

yards in 2005 and 2007. TDs in 2002 and 2007.

Tom Brady NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[SHOWTIME15]

well, i am sure this has already been discussed above, but at least brady is ranked higher than marino and elway. It looks like manning, favre, montana and unitas are going to be ranked higher.

montana i can deal with, but i am not sure what unitas did that brady didn't do. manning i will reluctantly shrug my shoulders since he is a stat machine. favre is a complete joke and is only there because he's played in the league for almost 20 years and has accumulated meaningless stats.

i would love to see how manning does without dallas clark. every time i turn around manning is throwing to a wide open receiver and pad his stats. now teams will double reggie wayne and manning will be forced to throw to blair white and pierre garcon. i don't think manning is a great passer in traffic.

 

[PatsSox363804]

So because Favre played long enough to beat Marinos records and because he had Desmond Howard win him a Superbowl he is ranked higher than Brady? That's ridiculous. Favre should be right between Marino and Elway.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Grouped by position, in no particular order, my expected top 20:

QB
1. Unitas
2. Graham
3. Favre
4. Baugh
5. Montana
6. Manning

RB
1. Sanders
2. Payton
3. Brown
4. Nagurski

WR
1. Rice
2. Hutson
3. Owens

OL
1. Munoz

DL
1. White
2. Jones
3. Greene

LB
1. Taylor
2. Butkus

S
1. Lott

 

[Modest]

I often hear the mediots spout that rules that previous QBs, namely Marino for one, played with stricter rules and if they played the game today would have exponentially more production. Can anyone whose been watching football for 2 decades or so add any merit to statements like that?

 

[jmt57]

I often hear the mediots spout that rules that previous QBs, namely Marino for one, played with stricter rules and if they played the game today would have exponentially more production. Can anyone whose been watching football for 2 decades or so add any merit to statements like that?

Yes and no.

Yes, certain all-time stats are filled with active players for certain categories; for example total passing yards, total receiving yards, completion percentage, etc. Others (yards per completion, yards per reception) are skewed to players from previous era. The rules and the style of the game have changed, there's no denying that. In addition the length of a season has gone from twelve games to 14 to 16. Playoff records are skewed because teams have gone from playing one playoff game per year to three or four, and more teams make the playoffs.

However, that does not automatically mean that a player from a previous era would dominate in the current era - not even one as talented as Marino.

It's really impossible to compare players from different eras, so this is how I look at it. First, compare how players performed in comparison to their peers. Do one or two players absolutely blow away their colleagues? Or are they just slightly ahead of others, maybe in a group of eight or ten players of that time?

Once you have it narrowed down to a couple of players or so for about each decade, then you can compare how far ahead of the time and their peers they were to the others on your list. That's why I don't mind seeing guys like Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham on these type of lists, and cringe when somebody says Emmitt Smith is the best RB ever and compares him to four or five others without ever mentioning Jim Brown.

Would Marino have had even bigger stats if he played today? Who knows? Maybe, probably, but you can't assume he would. He had a really quick release but he was neither mobile (fast) nor did he maneuver (think Brady taking one step to avoid a pass rusher) in the pocket as well. For all we know he might not handle current defensive pass rushes and schemes too well; he wasn't known for his smarts.

Instead, compare him to his peers and then compare how much better he was to his peers to how much better Brady, Manning, Unitas, etc. are/were to their peers. Then you'll have a good list and a good debate.

 

[Joker]

nor did he maneuver (think Brady taking one step to avoid a pass rusher) in the pocket



that is absolutely, positively bullcrap....and I ALWAYS hated Done Noringo...but to say he couldn't move in the pocket...that's ridiculous...I probably saw 90% of his games over his career and he was the master of moving in the pocket to avoid hits and deliver the ball.

 

[alamo]

Marino *might* have been better than Brady for a time early in his career, but bad knees held him back through much of it. Shula's misguided drafting (too much offense to support Marino when building a semblance of a defense would have helped) hurt too, though it made him seem more impressive than he was because he always had to throw the ball.

Certainly it's impressive he set the yardage record in 84 before the rules were changed to favor passing, and it still stands today. But I suspect one reason he ranks lower than Brady and others is the fact he played his entire career in a warm climate, that helped his stats a great deal.

 

[pheenix11]

This list is a travesty. There is no way in hell Favre & PayMeTon should be ahead of Brady. Only Montana should be ahead of him and maybe Unitas as my Dad would say.

Favre & Manning are two of the biggest choke artists in the history of the game, they would be 1 & 2 on that list.

Also no way Favre should be ahead of Marino, only reason he has broken all his records is because the dumbass doesn't know when to go away.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

Just FYI Mr. Peyton Lover, Brady has led the league in touchdowns in more years than 2007. He is a better quarterback than Manning.

From Brady's Wikipedia page, for the people are obsessed with stats when ranking QBs:

"Brady holds numerous regular season and postseason records, including most touchdown passes in a regular season (50), highest single-game completion percentage, regular season or postseason (26/28, 92.9%), most completions in one Super Bowl, most completions in Super Bowl history (career), the highest winning percentage of any quarterback ever during his first 100 starts (76 wins), and the longest streak of games with 3 or more touchdown passes (10 games). Brady is the fourth-fastest player to reach 200 career passing touchdowns (116 games). He is the first quarterback in NFL history to have reached said mark with under 100 career interceptions (he had 88 interceptions)."

If that's not enough to convince you that Brady belongs in the top 3 QBs of all time, then you can have fun drooling over Peyton's next commercial. Brady's one of the two best postseason quarterbacks of all time, the other being Montana, and not only that, he's one of the best regular season quarterbacks of all time, too.

Peyton lover? Ouch You did notice my name right? In my eyes Brady is the GOAT and I fully believe by the end of his career, even the mediots will have to accept it.

yards in 2005 and 2007. TDs in 2002 and 2007.

Tom Brady NFL & AFL Football Statistics | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Is twice all it takes? Will run down the stats and come back tomorrow with the answer!

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

Is twice all it takes? Will run down the stats and come back tomorrow with the answer!

All yard/TD leaders from 2009 to 1966.

2009: Schaub 4770/Brees 34
2008: Brees 5069/Brees 34
2007: Brady 4806/Brady 50
2006: Brees 4418/Manning 31
2005: Brady 4110/Palmer 32
2004: Culpepper 4717/Manning 49
2003: Manning 4267/Favre 32
2002: Gannon 4689/Brady 28
2001: Warner 4830/Warner 36
2000: Manning 4413/Manning-Culpepper 33
1999: Beuerlein 4436/Warner 41
1998: Favre 4212/Young 36
1997: George 3917/Favre 35
1996: Brunell 4367/Favre 39
1995: Favre 4413/Favre 38
1994: Bledsoe 4555/Young 35
1993: Elway 4030/Young 29
1992: Marino 4116/Young 25
1991: Moon 4690/Kelly 33
1990: Moon 4689/Moon 33
1989: Majkowski 4318/Everett 29
1988: Marino 4434/Everett 31
1987: Lomax 3387/Montana 31
1986: Marino 4746/Marino 44
1985: Marino 4137/Marino 30
1984: Marino 5084/Marino 48
1983: ****ey 4458/****ey 32
1982: Fouts 2883/Bradshaw-Fouts-Montana 17
1981: Fouts 4802/Fouts 33
1980: Fouts 4715/Bartkowski 31
1979: Fouts 4082/Grogan-Sipe 28
1978: Tarkenton 3468/Bradshaw 28
1977: Ferguson 2803/Griese 22
1976: Jones 3104/Stabler 27
1975: Anderson 3169/Ferguson-Tarkenton 25
1974: Anderson 2667/Stabler 26
1973: Gabriel 3219/Gabriel-Staubach 23
1972: Namath 2816/Namath-Kilmer 19
1971: Hadl 3075/Hadl 21
1970: Brodie 2941/Brodie 24
1969: Lamonica 3302/Lamonica 34
1968: Hadl 3473/Hadl 27
1967: Namath 4007/Jurgenson 31
1966: Namath 3379/Ryan 29

Players with multiple SB wins and how many times they’ve led in either category:

Elway(2-3) - 1
Bradshaw(4-0) - 2
Montana(4-0) - 2
Brady(3-1) - 4
Staubach(2-2) - 1
Aikman(3-0) - 0
Griese(2-1) - 1
Starr(2-0) - 0
Plunkett(2-0) - 0
Rapethisberger(2-0) - 0

Honorable mentions
Warner(1-2) - 3
Manning(1-1) - 5
Favre(1-1) - 6
Brees(1-0) - 4

Interesting! However, I'd give Manning or Brees a good shot to end up with this record.