NFL executive: 'Lamar-for-Tua trade makes sense'

[mike_usagisan]

I don’t disagree with that, but I don’t think they see Goff as their long term QB, and a #6 to get a young QB, as well as Goff to start while he develops would work well for Baltimore.

The Lions were the #5 offense in the league last year (well ahead of the Ravens). I think that trade works for the Ravens, but not the Lions.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

OK then. Quick question. Would YOU pay him top 5 QB money FULLY guaranteed?

Yes. Top 5-10, these contracts don't stand for pong in terms of highest paid. Burrow and Herbert will break it soon.

To my other point. Baltimore was 32 in WR spending. Missing their starting LT, multiple RB including Dobbins their starter. Bateman who was supposed to be their WR1.

Also while Roman's style can work its been proven it stalls out fairly quickly after a big splash. They never invested in him as a QB. Even after throwing for almost 40 TD.

I'd have np paying him but they wasted prime financial years. Seriously go look at his targets while in Baltimore and ask yourself how many QB's are bringing that group to a SB.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Lamar's people reached out to Stephen A. Smith and told him that he never asked for a fully guaranteed contract. The Ravens stopped at $133M guaranteed. Kyler Murray and DeShaun Watson really messed up the market. You could also throw in Russell Wilson as well.

Also, the Ravens hired the next offensive coordinator without consulting with Lamar - not smart.

Ravens have a smear campaign going on to make Lamar look bad. This is why they reached out to Stephen A. Smith.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

If I am the ravens I only trade him to NFC.
Lamar for Justin Fields and a first rounder is fair.

maybe Justin Fields and 1st rounder in 2024

 

[Sicilian]

Yes. Top 5-10, these contracts don't stand for pong in terms of highest paid. Burrow and Herbert will break it soon.

To my other point. Baltimore was 32 in WR spending. Missing their starting LT, multiple RB including Dobbins their starter. Bateman who was supposed to be their WR1.

Also while Roman's style can work its been proven it stalls out fairly quickly after a big splash. They never invested in him as a QB. Even after throwing for almost 40 TD.

I'd have np paying him but they wasted prime financial years. Seriously go look at his targets while in Baltimore and ask yourself how many QB's are bringing that group to a SB.

I guess the question based on this would then be: Can they give him that kind of guaranteed money and still have enough to upgrade the areas that need upgrading around him? Like, if they're 32nd in WR spending with Lamar on a rookie contract, they'd be hard pressed to actually improve that situation without making some serious consolations in other areas, be it the OL or defense. Tough spot for them I think.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I guess the question based on this would then be: Can they give him that kind of guaranteed money and still have enough to upgrade the areas that need upgrading around him? Like, if they're 32nd in WR spending with Lamar on a rookie contract, they'd be hard pressed to actually improve that situation without making some serious consolations in other areas, be it the OL or defense. Tough spot for them I think.

Hard to believe they'll do the right thing after wasting these years. Not only 32 in WR spending but last in offense.

 

[Joker]

Hard to believe they'll do the right thing after wasting these years. Not only 32 in WR spending but last in offense.

how is Baltimore 32nd and Denver 31 when Denver spent LESS?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

how is Baltimore 32nd and Denver 31 when Denver spent LESS?

 

[Rob0729]

Hard to believe they'll do the right thing after wasting these years. Not only 32 in WR spending but last in offense.

It amazing that the Colts has had the most expensive offense in the last four years and not have a real QB in any of them.

 

[Joker]

this is extremely misleading...you're citing the last four years? most of their offensive players were added 4 years ago. The Ravens near the top on offensive line salaries last season. That indicated the Ravens WERE doing everything they could to HELP Lamar.

NFL Offensive Line Spending - Cap

A real-time look at how NFL teams are spending their 2024 cap dollars on Offensive Lines.

www.spotrac.com

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

this is extremely misleading...you're citing the last four years? most of their offensive players were added 4 years ago. The Ravens near the top on offensive line salaries last season. That indicated the Ravens WERE doing everything they could to HELP Lamar.

NFL Offensive Line Spending - Cap

A real-time look at how NFL teams are spending their 2024 cap dollars on Offensive Lines.

www.spotrac.com

I could have sworn I replied to this but apparently didn't hit send.

Most of that is Stanley who has missed a bunch of time recently. They downgraded after Yanda which is understandable, he's a HOF player but the G and C spots have been inconsistent as hell.

It's pretty clear they messed up their early chance with Jackson. Besides Andrews he's had no one other than a low-end WR2 in Brown. I like Bateman but he's proven very little and they've done nothing in FA to make a dent.





They've had a recent string of injuries that have players unhappy about the staff there too.




Mac has been put in a much better situation and everyone agrees we need to do a lot more to help him even though he's never been special. Lamar won a MVP in a much worse situation, it's obvious he needs more help too if we're being objective.

 

[Wozzy]

Mike Vick's career resurgence in Philly is the one example where I can point to a mobile QB having later career success.

Andy Reid coaxed the single most efficient season out of Mike Vick, then the wheels fell off.

A running back who throws a little will never win a ring, because passing from the pocket against superior defenses is a must in the playoffs.

 

[Wozzy]

Imagine thinking Lamar has had a "good" WR corp in Baltimore when it's been bottom 5-10 for years. It's one thing to not like someone but no need to make things up. Honestly that statement shows you're either a casual fan or you're making stuff up.

Anytime he's brought up here it's painful to read.

The guy has his flaws but Baltimore has completely failed to build around him. That offense stopped evolving 2 years ago which is a theme for GR. Least amount of money spent on WR's. Like when you're pointing to Hollywood Brown as an example, your argument just fell apart. Hollywood Brown lol. OL has regressed each year since his MVP season and they've had no running game besides him.

You put him in even a good situation and he'll be back in the MVP discussion.

It's 2023. No need to make things up about people you don't know but watch for entertainment. It's weird.

Nonsense… who were his “better” WR’s in his MVP season in 2019?

The guy is not accurate, he was not accurate in college, he never improved… and different WR’s aren’t going to help that.

In 2019 teams had no clue who he was, Roman and Harbaugh built a great "power option" scheme around him. Since then he has only gotten worse as teams realized keeping him in the pocket and forcing him to pass is the way to beat him.

He throws 150 times a year to Andrews because he needs 6’5” targets, because he’s inaccurate. I would love to have Marquise Brown, Rashod Bateman or Devin Duvernay on the Pats, those guys are burners... serious athletes. If they pay him they’re fools.

 

[Wozzy]

I could have sworn I replied to this but apparently didn't hit send.

Most of that is Stanley who has missed a bunch of time recently. They downgraded after Yanda which is understandable, he's a HOF player but the G and C spots have been inconsistent as hell.

It's pretty clear they messed up their early chance with Jackson. Besides Andrews he's had no one other than a low-end WR2 in Brown. I like Bateman but he's proven very little and they've done nothing in FA to make a dent.



View attachment 50250

They've had a recent string of injuries that have players unhappy about the staff there too.
View attachment 50251



Mac has been put in a much better situation and everyone agrees we need to do a lot more to help him even though he's never been special. Lamar won a MVP in a much worse situation, it's obvious he needs more help too if we're being objective.

Mac's situation last season was far worse than any LJ has faced his entire career. Harbaugh won a ring with Flacco and has run one of the better programs in the NFL the entire time he has been there.

Jackson has been the single worst player on either team in the playoffs, he's been a turnover machine.

 

[1960Pats]

The concern with Lamar, is the same concern with Hurts. Their playing style and production is very dependent on their run threat.
NOT saying they can't pass as well as everyone else, but the intrigue and impact is that dual-threat punch.
But, like both Lamar & Tua are showing is that they could break down quicker, and may not be worth a 10-year commitment.
Even look at Josh Allen - he took a beating last year too. Exec's have to realize that a great dual-threat QB works for 5-7 years, but name one that's lasted a 10+ year career.

I remember when Cant Newton was in the draft and one of the Giants' LBs commented on him. He said that you can't win in the NFL unless you can stand in the pocket, see the defense and make a pass, like Brady and Manning. That hasn't changed even with more running QBs. What has changed is QBs aren't lasting full seasons as much as they used to. I wonder why.

 

[Wozzy]

I remember when Cant Newton was in the draft and one of the Giants' LBs commented on him. He said that you can't win in the NFL unless you can stand in the pocket, see the defense and make a pass, like Brady and Manning. That hasn't changed even with more running QBs. What has changed is QBs aren't lasting full seasons as much as they used to. I wonder why.

I love the notion that running QB’s are going to revolutionize the game. This is what they said about Randall Cunningham back in the 80’s, it was what they said about Mike Vick in the early 2000’s, it’s what they said about Cam in the 2010’s.

Prior to the invention of the forward pass all we had was running backs… halfbacks. There’s nothing novel or different about running QB’s, the league is never going back to that. It’s retro, not new.

Besides protecting the ball, passing is #1-2-3 on the list of importance. Teams have RB’s to run the ball. Running is a nice accompaniment to passing, it’s gravy… passing is the job.

 

[1960Pats]

I guess the question based on this would then be: Can they give him that kind of guaranteed money and still have enough to upgrade the areas that need upgrading around him? Like, if they're 32nd in WR spending with Lamar on a rookie contract, they'd be hard pressed to actually improve that situation without making some serious consolations in other areas, be it the OL or defense. Tough spot for them I think.

Both the Ratbirds and Indiots are being punished for pushing the false deflation story that led to the Pats losing their QB for 4 games in 2016. One of them is locked into a QB who sucks (but only at passing ) and the other has no QB at all. Miss Karma has been a b!tch.

Both teams are lucky that I didn't put a 25 year curse on them like I did to the Raiders in 2001.

 

[1960Pats]

I love the notion that running QB’s are going to revolutionize the game. This is what they said about Randall Cunningham back in the 80’s, it was what they said about Mike Vick in the early 2000’s, it’s what they said about Cam in the 2010’s.

Prior to the invention of the forward pass all we had was running backs… halfbacks. There’s nothing novel or different about running QB’s, the league is never going back to that. It’s retro, not new.

Besides protecting the ball, passing is #1-2-3 on the list of importance. Teams have RB’s to run the ball. Running is a nice accompaniment to passing, it’s gravy… passing is the job.

When I watched Lamar Jackson I was always happy that the Ratbirds didn't convert him to another position. He would have been real tough in the open field.

I understand why there are more running QBs now but what I don't understand is the infatuation with having a QB that runs at all. It seems like more of a recipe for disaster than winning. Plus, QBs are much harder to replace than WRs or RBs.

 

[Wozzy]

When I watched Lamar Jackson I was always happy that the Ratbirds didn't convert him to another position. He would have been real tough in the open field.

I understand why there are more running QBs now but what I don't understand is the infatuation with having a QB that runs at all. It seems like more of a recipe for disaster than winning. Plus, QBs are much harder to replace than WRs or RBs.

I think the prevalence for Lamar Jackson threads and posts on sites like this one is due to the Patriot's refusal to draft him not once, but twice in that 2018 draft. Some fans of his pre-draft think he should have been taken, the anti-BB types want to rub it in our faces he was an MVP in 2019... never mind the fact he never would have seen the field with Tom on the team. Moreover how would Tom have taken the news that he was taking less money to give us more chances to win rings, and the team was using valuable first round picks on a QB? Moreover how has LJ's regular season success translated to playoff wins... not at all. Just dumb.

Lamar Jackson was completely off my draft board in 2018, the same way Malik Willis was off my board last draft. I don't want a QB who can't throw with accuracy or from the pocket... I don't care how good he runs. Kyler Murray was at the top of my draft board because of his ability to pass, his 4.3 speed be damned. Sure, it's a great weapon to have on third and long, but his ability to pass matters most. An inability to pass with accuracy is a sure way to lose in the playoffs and I'm not a team owner who's happy just to sell tickets and jerseys. I want to win rings.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It's going to get ugly in Baltimore.