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PATRIOTS NEWS NFL announces deal with Walsh; Goodell meeting set for May 13

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The Patriots’ organizational focus at this time is on the NFL Draft and preparing for what we hope will be an exciting 2008 season. We will have no further comments regarding Matt Walsh at this time.

I couldn't have said it better. :rocker:
 
I dont know what is worse, waiting for this matt walsh stuff to go away, or Hillary Clinton to go away...
 
because everybody sucks.

This is exactly why i don't like talking to people.

I honestly look forward to every post you make as they seem to be my thoughts exactly everytime.
 
10,000 views on this thread?

I would say that both fans and foes are still interested in some closure.
 
Now, supposedly Walsh has audio tapes of phone conversations of Pioli. What could be on those tapes?
 
Ok, I am a bit confused here. Did the Patriots say they would not sue Walsh? For anything he says? So, if Walsh says that the Pats taped the visitors locker room....would that be ok? If he said a member of the coaching staff molests children..is that ok? I am unclear about how far this indemnity goes. Even if the Pats agree not to sue as an organization an individual associated with the Patriots could certainly sue on their own...correct?
 
Ok, I am a bit confused here. Did the Patriots say they would not sue Walsh? For anything he says? So, if Walsh says that the Pats taped the visitors locker room....would that be ok? If he said a member of the coaching staff molests children..is that ok? I am unclear about how far this indemnity goes. Even if the Pats agree not to sue as an organization an individual associated with the Patriots could certainly sue on their own...correct?

here is a good writeup:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/23/walsh-wins-the-truth-skirmish/
 
The following part of the agreement stands out to me:

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, nothing in this Agreement shall prohibit or restrict either Party from undertaking reasonable efforts to repair damages to their respective reputations.

It seems out of place and the wording is strangely non-specific. I understand the words and their implications, but anyone have any ideas as to an underlying reason why this particular provision is a part of the agreement?
 
Now, supposedly Walsh has audio tapes of phone conversations of Pioli. What could be on those tapes?

Well, we will never know unless Walsh wants to risk going to jail for committing a felony. No way does Walsh come forward with any audio tapes of conversations with Pioli. Eventhough he got indemnification for those allegations, he did not get nor can the league provide immunity from prosecution for committing a felony.

Levy will not allow him to provide any audio tapes of Pioli assuming he has any.
 
Well, we will never know unless Walsh wants to risk going to jail for committing a felony. No way does Walsh come forward with any audio tapes of conversations with Pioli. Eventhough he got indemnification for those allegations, he did not get nor can the league provide immunity from prosecution for committing a felony.

Levy will not allow him to provide any audio tapes of Pioli assuming he has any.

i sure as hell hope you are right.

I've thrown all common sense out of the window when thinking about this spygate ****. It's just ridiculous and the way everyone has been behaving is worse than i could have possibly imagined. Just when you think it cant possibly get worse it does. And it's mostly b/c the commissioner is a jerkoff of biblical proportions and he's an actual fan of a team in the league that he's supposed to run.

You expect a business to handle things one way, and then it's handled like a 15 year old girl myspace fued. When i look at spygate and think of the worst godammn possible way to handle the situation, it isn't even close to what Goodell has pulled. Seriously... when this crap came out, if you sat there and thought of the absolute worst way you could handle it, it wouldn't even compare to the pathetic job that Roger did.

It's like having a guy running the midnight shift at a tollbooth become a CEO of a fortune 500 company. He's way out of his league and doesn't have a clue what he's doing.

Never would i think that the jealousy of the Patriots would create something this ridiculous.
 
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After reading the Agt. itself last night, some thoughts:

1. It's clear that both sides contemplate Walsh having tapes--there's no doubt about that now;

2. Section 1(a) also contemplates the idea that Walsh may have given materials to others and needs to get that back--Tomasse perhaps, or some third party to back his story up to Tomasse so that the Herald could run the story without fear of being sued? Any journalists out there able to answer whether that would be "normal" to do so without disclosing it in the article? (In my best Mr. Scott impersonation here, "I'm a lawyer, Cap'n, not a journalist!");

3. Under 1(b), and as has been reported elsewhere, it looks like Walsh can talk to third parties about what he's turning over, but there are restrictions on his ability to let others see his lawyer's copy of the materials he gets to keep (at least for a little while--there's another provision saying he needs to turn those materials over to the League at some point);

4. Under section 2 Walsh will be talking to the NFL not just about videotaping, but also about "any other violations" of which he has personal knowledge (audiotaping perhaps?);

5. The possibility of Congressional hearings is contemplated in section 3(a);

6. What to me may be the most important nugget here is also in 3(a), namely the Agt. goes into detail on when Walsh was presumed to be working for the Pats and actions he took will be presumed to be their actions--including taping activities relating to Pats games (the "Covered Videotaping Action" defn.) It then goes on to say that things outside those listed activities (which, to my reading, may arguably not include taping a Rams practice) need to be proved by Walsh to have been Pats actions by a preponderance of the evidence. The fact that this is even in here leads me to even more strongly suspect that on May 13 among the items turned over will be a SB 36 walkthrough tape.

7. I also found that section on rehabilitating reputations (4(b)) interesting, but am not quite sure what's contemplated by it. It is pretty powerful, however, due to the statement that it trumps the rest of the Agt.

For those of you taking comfort from the Pats strong denials--go back and re-read that denial. They say that the "NE Patriots" didn't tape the walkthrough--that will be their argument, it was Walsh as a lone gunmen. And the rest of world outside New England will have a good old laugh at that, I suspect, as will the Commissioner. As noted before, in that case, my suspicion is that BB may have coached his last NFL game and the loss of a first round draft pick this year will be made to look like a slap on the wrist.

I originally thought that this may be to the Pats benefit when I saw the timing of this--i.e., if they're doing all this this week, the week of the draft, then the League thinks Walsh has nothing. But when the fact that they plan to do this in the NFL season "dead zone" of the period between the draft and spring training, I now think just the opposite. The delay here IMHO has been the NFL trying to position what they know to be a smelly problem into a media period when it will do them the least harm.

Flame away, but I'm just calling it like I see it--for those who think I'm an anti-Pats, pro-Bills homer, go check out my posts last week in which I admit that it's very likely my team moves to Toronto. I root for a team, but I try to maintain my objectivity, so take the above in that spirit. Either way, it's going to be an interesting May.....

PS On the criminal charges for audiotaping, I don't think that will work here, as the Pats seem to be waiving their right to bring that suit--even in a criminal case you need a complainant (the Pats/Pioli) and that complainant here seems to be saying it won't bring the case.
 
After reading the Agt. itself last night, some thoughts:

1. It's clear that both sides contemplate Walsh having tapes--there's no doubt about that now;

2. Section 1(a) also contemplates the idea that Walsh may have given materials to others and needs to get that back--Tomasse perhaps, or some third party to back his story up to Tomasse so that the Herald could run the story without fear of being sued? Any journalists out there able to answer whether that would be "normal" to do so without disclosing it in the article? (In my best Mr. Scott impersonation here, "I'm a lawyer, Cap'n, not a journalist!");

3. Under 1(b), and as has been reported elsewhere, it looks like Walsh can talk to third parties about what he's turning over, but there are restrictions on his ability to let others see his lawyer's copy of the materials he gets to keep (at least for a little while--there's another provision saying he needs to turn those materials over to the League at some point);

4. Under section 2 Walsh will be talking to the NFL not just about videotaping, but also about "any other violations" of which he has personal knowledge (audiotaping perhaps?);

5. The possibility of Congressional hearings is contemplated in section 3(a);

6. What to me may be the most important nugget here is also in 3(a), namely the Agt. goes into detail on when Walsh was presumed to be working for the Pats and actions he took will be presumed to be their actions--including taping activities relating to Pats games (the "Covered Videotaping Action" defn.) It then goes on to say that things outside those listed activities (which, to my reading, may arguably not include taping a Rams practice) need to be proved by Walsh to have been Pats actions by a preponderance of the evidence. The fact that this is even in here leads me to even more strongly suspect that on May 13 among the items turned over will be a SB 36 walkthrough tape.

7. I also found that section on rehabilitating reputations (4(b)) interesting, but am not quite sure what's contemplated by it. It is pretty powerful, however, due to the statement that it trumps the rest of the Agt.

For those of you taking comfort from the Pats strong denials--go back and re-read that denial. They say that the "NE Patriots" didn't tape the walkthrough--that will be their argument, it was Walsh as a lone gunmen. And the rest of world outside New England will have a good old laugh at that, I suspect, as will the Commissioner. As noted before, in that case, my suspicion is that BB may have coached his last NFL game and the loss of a first round draft pick this year will be made to look like a slap on the wrist.

I originally thought that this may be to the Pats benefit when I saw the timing of this--i.e., if they're doing all this this week, the week of the draft, then the League thinks Walsh has nothing. But when the fact that they plan to do this in the NFL season "dead zone" of the period between the draft and spring training, I now think just the opposite. The delay here IMHO has been the NFL trying to position what they know to be a smelly problem into a media period when it will do them the least harm.

Flame away, but I'm just calling it like I see it--for those who think I'm an anti-Pats, pro-Bills homer, go check out my posts last week in which I admit that it's very likely my team moves to Toronto. I root for a team, but I try to maintain my objectivity, so take the above in that spirit. Either way, it's going to be an interesting May.....

PS On the criminal charges for audiotaping, I don't think that will work here, as the Pats seem to be waiving their right to bring that suit--even in a criminal case you need a complainant (the Pats/Pioli) and that complainant here seems to be saying it won't bring the case.

What kind of Lawyer are you!?!?!

I mean, I could tear your entire analysis apart but I don't have the time. But most importantly, you are not using the word contemplate(d) correctly - How is that if you are a lawyer? Do you write arguments or contracts? I hope not.
 
Fanetic
You never quit and neither do I. the way I read this is that there is nothing that prohibits the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from bringing a criminal suit against Walsh even without the Pats pressing charges. Believe me it would be politically favorable for the DA that brings it. Secondly, I will be suprised if your wishes come true and Walsh has any tape of a walk through. I doubt with the denials put out by the Pats they would expose themselves.
I believe that Goodell as the biased incompetent that he is has orchestrated this deal and is waiting for another opportunity to screw the Pats.
 
Fanetic
You never quit and neither do I. the way I read this is that there is nothing that prohibits the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from bringing a criminal suit against Walsh even without the Pats pressing charges. Believe me it would be politically favorable for the DA that brings it. Secondly, I will be suprised if your wishes come true and Walsh has any tape of a walk through. I doubt with the denials put out by the Pats they would expose themselves.
I believe that Goodell as the biased incompetent that he is has orchestrated this deal and is waiting for another opportunity to screw the Pats.

I believe in most kinds of criminal cases (other than things like child endangerment or murder) you need a victim to press charges (witness the many cases where abusive husbands don't get prosecuted since the woman refuses to press charges). Here it looks like the League and the Pats (and through them, Pioli) are waiving their right to press charges on the audiotaping. I'm not a criminal lawyer, so perhaps someone who is could enlighten us on that topic.

On your other points, I have absolutely no idea what you mean on the point re: my use of "contemplated". What say you to point 6 above--in my mind that's the biggest new point in the Agt. and points to an increased likelihood of a SB walkthrough tape existing. No one knows for sure, of course, but the good news is we'll all find out shortly.....
 
After reading the Agt. itself last night, some thoughts:

1. It's clear that both sides contemplate Walsh having tapes--there's no doubt about that now;

2. Section 1(a) also contemplates the idea that Walsh may have given materials to others and needs to get that back--Tomasse perhaps, or some third party to back his story up to Tomasse so that the Herald could run the story without fear of being sued? Any journalists out there able to answer whether that would be "normal" to do so without disclosing it in the article? (In my best Mr. Scott impersonation here, "I'm a lawyer, Cap'n, not a journalist!");

3. Under 1(b), and as has been reported elsewhere, it looks like Walsh can talk to third parties about what he's turning over, but there are restrictions on his ability to let others see his lawyer's copy of the materials he gets to keep (at least for a little while--there's another provision saying he needs to turn those materials over to the League at some point);

4. Under section 2 Walsh will be talking to the NFL not just about videotaping, but also about "any other violations" of which he has personal knowledge (audiotaping perhaps?);

5. The possibility of Congressional hearings is contemplated in section 3(a);

6. What to me may be the most important nugget here is also in 3(a), namely the Agt. goes into detail on when Walsh was presumed to be working for the Pats and actions he took will be presumed to be their actions--including taping activities relating to Pats games (the "Covered Videotaping Action" defn.) It then goes on to say that things outside those listed activities (which, to my reading, may arguably not include taping a Rams practice) need to be proved by Walsh to have been Pats actions by a preponderance of the evidence. The fact that this is even in here leads me to even more strongly suspect that on May 13 among the items turned over will be a SB 36 walkthrough tape.

7. I also found that section on rehabilitating reputations (4(b)) interesting, but am not quite sure what's contemplated by it. It is pretty powerful, however, due to the statement that it trumps the rest of the Agt.

For those of you taking comfort from the Pats strong denials--go back and re-read that denial. They say that the "NE Patriots" didn't tape the walkthrough--that will be their argument, it was Walsh as a lone gunmen. And the rest of world outside New England will have a good old laugh at that, I suspect, as will the Commissioner. As noted before, in that case, my suspicion is that BB may have coached his last NFL game and the loss of a first round draft pick this year will be made to look like a slap on the wrist.

I originally thought that this may be to the Pats benefit when I saw the timing of this--i.e., if they're doing all this this week, the week of the draft, then the League thinks Walsh has nothing. But when the fact that they plan to do this in the NFL season "dead zone" of the period between the draft and spring training, I now think just the opposite. The delay here IMHO has been the NFL trying to position what they know to be a smelly problem into a media period when it will do them the least harm.

Flame away, but I'm just calling it like I see it--for those who think I'm an anti-Pats, pro-Bills homer, go check out my posts last week in which I admit that it's very likely my team moves to Toronto. I root for a team, but I try to maintain my objectivity, so take the above in that spirit. Either way, it's going to be an interesting May.....

PS On the criminal charges for audiotaping, I don't think that will work here, as the Pats seem to be waiving their right to bring that suit--even in a criminal case you need a complainant (the Pats/Pioli) and that complainant here seems to be saying it won't bring the case.


1. Both sides contemplate him having tapes because we realize he stole club property over the course of his employment. He was something of a memorabelia collector... He has copies if not originals of some of the game tapes he was instructed to film (legally) including the end zone tape of Adam's SB 36 winning kick. None of that matters from a penalty standpoint as it is/was legally taped material. He may also have copies of sideline signal taping that may or may not have been allowed prior to the 2006 memo. But aside from recovering it so it cannot be used or sold to media outlets, that doesn't matter from a penalty standpoint either because BB admitted to the Commissioner that it had been his practice to tape in that manner from the time he arrived here...

2. He may have given things to others but it's not likely mediots or they'd have run with them. He is likely claiming he had things he no longer has and the league is insisting he make every effort to recover anything he may claim to have had prior to meeting with them. That covers he can't claim later that he turned over what he had at the time and is not bound to refrain from using things that others had received from him that he neglected to mention because they weren't in his posession at the time of the agreement.

3. You read one section correctly...

4. Is just the standard tell us everything you may claim to know now and not just what you have been rumored to know. This is simply to limit him from making additional claims of knowledge of potential wrongdoing down the road without that putting him in violation of the agreement. It jives with the new rule that requires that those the commissioner questions about potential infractions being bound to report any violations they may know of and not simply the one they are being questioned about.

5. Nowadays the possibility of a congressional investigation into most anything is reasonably contemplated... They will also cover his expenses to meet with congresses ailing football watchdog and likely anticipate that is where it will end. But if he goes into remission again, or Samuel turns out to be a bust, or Comcast requests he help his favorite constituent slay a dragon, it's always possible Arlen will want to revisit the matter...

6. If footage of that walkthrough does exist the team has has previously denied any involvement in it's existence. The league has also investigated the the allegation absent a tape and found it to have no merit. That means no former or present Patriot employee they interviewed had any knowledge of a tape or a request that one be made. They also developed strong circumstantial evidence suggesting no tape could have been made at the behest of the team (the instruction to not take battery packs to the site during set up of the legally pre-placed cameras, the lack of operating power source at the site on Saturday, Walsh leaving the scene with another employee and reportedly mentioning to him at the time how they could or should have run tape). So the league is saying here that if a tape of another teams practice exists the team is denying that was ever within the scope of his employment and it would be up to him to prove that it was. Unless someone overheard him being instructed to tape a practice, or someone else stated that they too were requested to tape in similar circumstances, then the presumption will be that anything like that he did was done on his own volition without the knowledge or at the behest of his employer.

7. Nothing in the agreement between he and the parties (NFL teams) precludes a private individual from suing him for damages done to their reputation. That could include BB or Pioli or some other individual including Tomase or the Herald should he lose his job or his employer face a lawsuit over allegations they published...


As to your projected outcome, dream on troll... even at ESPN they have given up on Walsh ever amounting to more than they've already been able to milk out of him.
 
On your other points, I have absolutely no idea what you mean on the point re: my use of "contemplated".

"1. It's clear that both sides contemplate Walsh having tapes"

This makes no grammatical sense. Really hurts your argument when you butcher the English language.
 
Fanetic
You never quit and neither do I. the way I read this is that there is nothing that prohibits the Commonwealth of Massachusetts from bringing a criminal suit against Walsh even without the Pats pressing charges. Believe me it would be politically favorable for the DA that brings it. Secondly, I will be suprised if your wishes come true and Walsh has any tape of a walk through. I doubt with the denials put out by the Pats they would expose themselves.
I believe that Goodell as the biased incompetent that he is has orchestrated this deal and is waiting for another opportunity to screw the Pats.

Will you people just stop with the lame criminal crap. The courts are clogged up enough as it is. Kraft wants closure. Which is why he won't sue the Herald as things stand either since all any of that will ever accomplish is keeping this crap alive and generating more negative publicity and exposing his business and his employees to discovery.
 
Analogy-- Jack DelRio/Coaching and Roger Goodell/Commissioner

Comments: Good looking, take charge guys with low wattage brain power
 
1. Both sides contemplate him having tapes because we realize he stole club property over the course of his employment. He was something of a memorabelia collector... He has copies if not originals of some of the game tapes he was instructed to film (legally) including the end zone tape of Adam's SB 36 winning kick. None of that matters from a penalty standpoint as it is/was legally taped material. He may also have copies of sideline signal taping that may or may not have been allowed prior to the 2006 memo. But aside from recovering it so it cannot be used or sold to media outlets, that doesn't matter from a penalty standpoint either because BB admitted to the Commissioner that it had been his practice to tape in that manner from the time he arrived here...

2. He may have given things to others but it's not likely mediots or they'd have run with them. He is likely claiming he had things he no longer has and the league is insisting he make every effort to recover anything he may claim to have had prior to meeting with them. That covers he can't claim later that he turned over what he had at the time and is not bound to refrain from using things that others had received from him that he neglected to mention because they weren't in his posession at the time of the agreement.

3. You read one section correctly...

4. Is just the standard tell us everything you may claim to know now and not just what you have been rumored to know. This is simply to limit him from making additional claims of knowledge of potential wrongdoing down the road without that putting him in violation of the agreement. It jives with the new rule that requires that those the commissioner questions about potential infractions being bound to report any violations they may know of and not simply the one they are being questioned about.

5. Nowadays the possibility of a congressional investigation into most anything is reasonably contemplated... They will also cover his expenses to meet with congresses ailing football watchdog and likely anticipate that is where it will end. But if he goes into remission again, or Samuel turns out to be a bust, or Comcast requests he help his favorite constituent slay a dragon, it's always possible Arlen will want to revisit the matter...

6. If footage of that walkthrough does exist the team has has previously denied any involvement in it's existence. The league has also investigated the the allegation absent a tape and found it to have no merit. That means no former or present Patriot employee they interviewed had any knowledge of a tape or a request that one be made. They also developed strong circumstantial evidence suggesting no tape could have been made at the behest of the team (the instruction to not take battery packs to the site during set up of the legally pre-placed cameras, the lack of operating power source at the site on Saturday, Walsh leaving the scene with another employee and reportedly mentioning to him at the time how they could or should have run tape). So the league is saying here that if a tape of another teams practice exists the team is denying that was ever within the scope of his employment and it would be up to him to prove that it was. Unless someone overheard him being instructed to tape a practice, or someone else stated that they too were requested to tape in similar circumstances, then the presumption will be that anything like that he did was done on his own volition without the knowledge or at the behest of his employer.

7. Nothing in the agreement between he and the parties (NFL teams) precludes a private individual from suing him for damages done to their reputation. That could include BB or Pioli or some other individual including Tomase or the Herald should he lose his job or his employer face a lawsuit over allegations they published...

As to your projected outcome, dream on troll... even at ESPN they have given up on Walsh ever amounting to more than they've already been able to milk out of him.


On 6., my point is that the fact they're spending a good bit of ink on this implies an increased likelihood that a SB walkthrough tape exists (which many folks on the board have denied strenuously in the past). We'll also have to agree to disagree on who's more believable as to its origin if it does, but I'd bet you $1,000 that if you take a poll of folks outside the NE area on who they'll believe on that one, it will be Walsh (and I'd say it will be by about 90-10, but I could be wrong on that).....
 
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FF, I think you're reaching here.

Just connecting the dots, lets say that Walsh was indeed the source of the Feb. 2 Tomase rumor about the Patriots videotaping the Rams walkthrough. I won't get into Walsh's motivation for dropping that rumor to the Herald, but let's say he did. Seems to me that absent of any proof of this, Walsh would desperately seek indemnification for making those claims without proof for fear of being named in any defamation lawsuit that the Patriots could file against both Walsh AND the Herald.

Florio thinks so as well:

Clearly, the Pats believe that Walsh was the source for the February 2 item in the Boston Herald alleging that the Rams’ practice was videotaped. Though the Herald surely won’t comment on whether Walsh was the source, it’ll be very interesting to see what Walsh has to say about whether he said anything to the Herald along these lines.

The more we think about it, the Pats might want to consider playing nice with Walsh. In the end, he could be their star witness in the defamation lawsuit filed against the Herald.

Bingo. IMO, Walsh's agreement with the NFL and the Patriots is pretty much an effort to avoid getting dragged into this whole mess, which is why the team, the NFL and most of the connected beat writers are publicly confident that there's no new "bombshell" evidence. Walsh overplayed his hand here and he's trying desparately to keep from getting destroyed in court.
 
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