Next Stop, the Underwear Olympics

[mayoclinic]

I hope not. Slow as molasses.

Kouandjio's 40-time on bad knees was abysmal, but his 1.79 10-yard split was slightly better than average (and the same as Logan Mankins' from 2005) - better than that of Jake Mewhort, Billy Turner, Ja'Wuan James, Cameron Fleming or Morgan Moses - and his 7.71 3-cone wasn't far off of Zack Martin (7.65) and better than Mewhort (7.79), David Yankey (7.81), Brandon Thomas (8.13) and Seantrel Henderson (8.15). His 10-yard split was better than DJ Fluker's last year (1.90). His 20 yard shuttle was also better than Fluker's (4.80 vs. 5.00). On bum knees. He won't turn 21 until July. Like Fluker he's a gorilla with very long arms (35 5/8", vs. 36 3/4" for Fluker).

Kouandjio's tape suggests a 1st/2nd round pick. His medical report is scary, but it needs to be examined closely. He didn't miss any playing time, and he could improve significantly with some rest. We'll see how far he free falls, but he's much more interesting to me now than he was 2 days ago.

 

[Snake Eyes]

7.10 3-cone at 6'7" is nothing pedestrian. He is easily the best blocking TE in this class.

He was getting separation for the short routes that he was running at Iowa
Iowa TE #86 CJ Fiedorowicz Highlights - YouTube

How much do you expect him to get in the NFL?

 

[manxman2601]

Kouandjio's 40-time on bad knees was abysmal, but his 1.79 10-yard split was slightly better than average (and the same as Logan Mankins' from 2005) - better than that of Jake Mewhort, Billy Turner, Ja'Wuan James, Cameron Fleming or Morgan Moses - and his 7.71 3-cone wasn't far off of Zack Martin (7.65) and better than Mewhort (7.79), David Yankey (7.81), Brandon Thomas (8.13) and Seantrel Henderson (8.15). His 10-yard split was better than DJ Fluker's last year (1.90). His 20 yard shuttle was also better than Fluker's (4.80 vs. 5.00). On bum knees. He won't turn 21 until July. Like Fluker he's a gorilla with very long arms (35 5/8", vs. 36 3/4" for Fluker).

Kouandjio's tape suggests a 1st/2nd round pick. His medical report is scary, but it needs to be examined closely. He didn't miss any playing time, and he could improve significantly with some rest. We'll see how far he free falls, but he's much more interesting to me now than he was 2 days ago.

This is such a deep draft for OL, i don't see the need to spend a pick on someone like him. I do not want kouandjio trying to move in space like our OL are expected to.

Edit: if i have time I'll go back and look at his tape.

 

[Brady6]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dcvH4

Seferian-Jenkins has a fractured foot and is out 6-8 weeks. This could make him an option at #62 which would have me jumping for joy.

 

[Brady6]

Wow Fiedo. Really showing some athleticism. I got on his wagon back at the Senior Bowl



Senior Bowl: North Team Practice Page



Definitely want him in the second.

I wouldn't go that high for him. I would take him at #126 preferably but #93 given what he did today seems more realistic.

 

[Brady6]

Amaro looked bad today, his hand eye coordination was horrendous, and his route running wasn't much better. I will pass on him.

 

[Coach42]

Slow as molasses on arthritic knees from a botched surgery, apparently.

Again, I think it's very unlikely. But, just to play Devil's Advocate, could this end up being a situation comparable to Marcus Cannon in 2011? IF (and again, this is purely a hypothetical) the Pats' medical staff felt that Kouandjio could recover significantly if allowed to rest and possibly with treatment (something like hyaluronic acid injections), then if he took a free fall into day 3 like Cannon did in 2011, spending a 5th round pick and giving him time to heal could be something to consider.

FWIW, here's Mackenzie's scouting report on Kouandjio from 2 months ago:

Cyrus Kouandjio Scouting Report - 2014 NFL Draft

He's a bit of a mauler in the DJ Fluker mold who always lacked ideal footwork and is probably more of a "phone booth" kind of guy, but he could be a dominant guard or possibly RT if he recovers somewhat. Give him a red shirt year like the Pats did with Cannon and see what happens. If he drops to day 3, the cost and risk are low.

Again, I'm playing Devil's Advocate, and it's a long, long shot. But I bet BB checks out his medical reports and talks to Saban.

I think Kouandjio would be an All Pro level RG if healthy. The 40 for a guard is borderline meaningless, to me anyway.

 

[mayoclinic]

Amaro looked bad today, his hand eye coordination was horrendous, and his route running wasn't much better. I will pass on him.

I haven't been a huge Amaro fan, but I personally wouldn't "pass" on anyone based on their Combine performance. People are much too easily influenced by how people look running drills in shorts.

 

[manxman2601]

I haven't been a huge Amaro fan, but I personally wouldn't "pass" on anyone based on their Combine performance. People are much too easily influenced by how people look running drills in shorts.

Obligatory Stephen Hill mention.

 

[mayoclinic]

Obligatory Stephen Hill mention.

There's so many unrealistic things about the Combine drills:

1. Players aren't wearing pads.
2. They aren't getting hit.
3. They are running scripted drills, for which they've been training for weeks.
4. They're very limited complexity and decision making involved.

 

[manxman2601]

There's so many unrealistic things about the Combine drills:

1. Players aren't wearing pads.
2. They aren't getting hit.
3. They are running scripted drills, for which they've been training for weeks.
4. They're very limited complexity and decision making involved.

I don't worry about this as much as you. The whole point of the combine is to essentially compare prospects. Not just with the same years crop but with previous years prospects to. And to that end, a level playing field is needed. Whether that's in pads or not doesn't matter it's the fact that the guy running the 40 in 2014 can be directly compared to the guy who did it in 1999 that matters.

I understand where Brady 6 is coming from. Scouting the draft is an incredibly time consuming process as you and I can attest. Brady 6, who, like me, favours empirical evidence as a route to understanding football is using the combine as his "in" to the draft. I think that's fair enough except that, as you point out, the combine is only a supplement to the real job of actual film watching. Still, I'd rather his approach than "but Kiper says".

I will say this though, the one thing I absolutely detest is the obligatory "there's no way <player A> makes it to <such and such a pick>" you see in the comment sections of mock drafts, particularly when we're three months or more away from the draft.

 

[mayoclinic]

Still not sure about the value of a linebacker on day one or two, but I like those Christian Jones numbers a lot, especially in terms of his athleticism (Shazier was much better than I thought too). I still think Starr will be the more realistic value for the Pats but goddamn, this is a good year to have plenty of day two picks.

From Grid's profile on Christian Kirksey (who is still flying under the radar, BTW):

This Great Game is evolving, as the NFL caves in to ~ pardon me: responds to ~ the relentless Cacophony of Fantasy FootBall Fans and Madden FootBall Fans clamoring for more Points, more Points, more Points!!

Rules keep changing ~ always in favor of the Offense ~ and Defenses are forced, evermore, to become faster, smaller, and evermore Deceptive, as they scramble to respond to the latest punitive Rule Changes.

Consequently, the 21st Century is requiring, among many other things, Flanker ~ "OutSide LineBackers", to you Earthlings ~ who're far quicker and far more adept in Pass Coverage than their 20th Century Predecessors.

Christian Kirksey, I believe, manifests precisely what Defenses need to survive and indeed to thrive in this hostile modern environment: He's compact enough, strong enough, and explosive enough to hit hard, take on Blocks, and cover a sprawling stretch of Ground in Run Defense, yet spry, agile, and explosive enough to Turn & Burn, fly DownField, and cover FlexBacks & Tight Ends effectively. And he is, above all, fleet enough not only of Foot but of Mind to Rapidly Read & React to the rapidly evolving Tactical LandScape and recognize which response to employ in time for it to matter.

He is, in short, what every 21st Century Defense needs...and needs badly.

Category: Christian Kirksey -

Typical Gridean understatement, but I think one can probably read between the lines and get his point.

IMO the Pats have been behind the curve in getting flank defenders who are adept in playing in space, and it has cost them dearly. That's one of my highest priorities to remedy - as it was in 2012. I'd really like to add a couple of agile flank defenders with the ability to cover the field but not be a total liability against the run.

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't worry about this as much as you. The whole point of the combine is to essentially compare prospects. Not just with the same years crop but with previous years prospects to. And to that end, a level playing field is needed. Whether that's in pads or not doesn't matter it's the fact that the guy running the 40 in 2014 can be directly compared to the guy who did it in 1999 that matters.

I understand where Brady 6 is coming from. Scouting the draft is an incredibly time consuming process as you and I can attest. Brady 6, who, like me, favours empirical evidence as a route to understanding football is using the combine as his "in" to the draft. I think that's fair enough except that, as you point out, the combine is only a supplement to the real job of actual film watching. Still, I'd rather his approach than "but Kiper says".

I don't "worry about it" at all. I just don't put much stock in it. It just doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. You could get all of the prospects to line up and play hopscotch and it would be about as relevant.

The best Combine performance I ever saw was Aaron Curry. He was just so much more fluid than every other LB prospect, it was ridiculous.

It doesn't mean anything. I'm not an Amaro fan, but the Combine has no impact on my evaluation of him.

I completely agree with you that if a prospect shows exceptional athleticism at the Combine it merits going back and looking at him in more detail. But that's all, IMO.

I will say this though, the one thing I absolutely detest is the obligatory "there's no way <player A> makes it to <such and such a pick>" you see in the comment sections of mock drafts, particularly when we're three months or more away from the draft.

The biggest reason I watch the Combine is that some people do actually make picks based on Combine performances and Mike Mayock's waxing eloquent over how they look in drills. Stephen Hill, for example. I'm as interested in the guys who fall as those who rise, as many of them will be exceptional values. Alfonzo Dennard looked stiff at the Combine, Darius Butler looked exceptionally fluid. I know which one is a better football player, and I knew it at the time.

I agree that it's silly to say "player A won't make it to such and such a pick". 2 1/2 months to go, lots can happen. Teams send out smokescreens all the time. Cam Jordan rose after the Senior Bowl 3 years ago and had a great Combine. The Pats were reportedly hot to get him and were going to trade up into the top 10 with Dallas. They passed on him at 17 for Nate Solder, who had a poor Senior Bowl and was downgraded by many for it.

 

[manxman2601]

From Grid's profile on Christian Kirksey (who is still flying under the radar, BTW):



Category: Christian Kirksey -

Typical Gridean understatement, but I think one can probably read between the lines and get his point.

IMO the Pats have been behind the curve in getting flank defenders who are adept in playing in space, and it has cost them dearly. That's one of my highest priorities to remedy - as it was in 2012. I'd really like to add a couple of agile flank defenders with the ability to cover the field but not be a total liability against the run.

I wrote a long post in response and then remembered that this is the type of discussion I want to avoid. Sorry, you're not dragging me back in.

I will say that I liked Kirksey although not enough to get particularly excited by him.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't "worry about it" at all. I just don't put much stock in it. It just doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. You could get all of the prospects to line up and play hopscotch and it would be about as relevant.

The best Combine performance I ever saw was Aaron Curry. He was just so much more fluid than every other LB prospect, it was ridiculous.

It doesn't mean anything. I'm not an Amaro fan, but the Combine has no impact on my evaluation of him.

I completely agree with you that if a prospect shows exceptional athleticism at the Combine it merits going back and looking at him in more detail. But that's all, IMO.



The biggest reason I watch the Combine is that some people do actually make picks based on Combine performances and Mike Mayock's waxing eloquent over how they look in drills. Stephen Hill, for example. I'm as interested in the guys who fall as those who rise, as many of them will be exceptional values. Alfonzo Dennard looked stiff at the Combine, Darius Butler looked exceptionally fluid. I know which one is a better football player, and I knew it at the time.

I agree that it's silly to say "player A won't make it to such and such a pick". 2 1/2 months to go, lots can happen. Teams send out smokescreens all the time. Cam Jordan rose after the Senior Bowl 3 years ago and had a great Combine. The Pats were reportedly hot to get him and were going to trade up into the top 10 with Dallas. They passed on him at 17 for Nate Solder, who had a poor Senior Bowl and was downgraded by many for it.

If the combine was as irrelevant as you say, they wouldn't do it. Do you really think BB would waste his time with something as relevant "as hopscotch"?

It's much more important than you say. It is not the whole picture, but it is a part, and without it, the picture would not be complete.

 

[patsinthesnow]

This epic WR group, Manziel/Bortles, and the RBs (interested in West's 40 yard time), let's go!

Teddy not running. Doesn't matter. He could run a 5.28 and have a 21" vertical and he'd still be a top 10 player IMO.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Bortles slower than I thought.

Manziel more Wilson speed than RGIII/Vick speed, not too surprised.

Every pocket passer, burn their combine stats!

 

[manxman2601]

Bortles slower than I thought.

Manziel more Wilson speed than RGIII/Vick speed, not too surprised.

Every pocket passer, burn their combine stats!

I'm bored already. Bring on the WRs. It's the highlight of the combine.

 

[Deus Irae]

Manziel had better run faster the second time.


edit: And he did.



The official time is obviously what rules, but he needed to improve on that first run, given his playing style.

 

[manxman2601]

I take it that Logan Thomas isn't performing. That's a shame.