NEW ARTICLE: If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem

[mike_usagisan]

True, all of those are good examples but they're rare and a result of either having all-time great defenses or getting hot at the right time. Do the Pats have an all-time great D? Can we get hot at the right time? Maybe, I guess.

Right, I’m not saying it’s a guaranteed recipe for success, I just wanted to counter the argument that you HAVE to have a top-5 QB or you just can’t win a SB. History doesn’t confirm that. And we really don’t know what we have at QB yet, so it’s a recipe to follow until we do.

Look at the Chiefs. They were doing well with their QB but wisely drafted Mahomes when they saw that they needed to take that next step. Getting the D together would give us the time to figure it out.

 

[Real fan 02]

What's a little crazy is that no one is talking about that (the fact it takes three years to find out what you really have in a guy) - everyone wants to make a judgment on the two immediately, with some anointing Zappe and already wanting to trade Jones after he's barely played 3 games during what's obviously been a difficult transition in his second year. The nightmare scenario would be for neither to work out, and we end up back at square one. Which is another reason it makes sense to root for both of these guys to develop instead of picking one guy and then dumping on the other and that's - unfortunately - been a thing here as of late.

I feel that we sometimes forget the team is still in a rebuild/ win now mode. It gets frustrating to watch sometimes as we know this team is better than what they have been. However if Mac was allotted the similar offense as Buffalo did with Allen when Dabol left then we'd see a more productive mac, switching the offense stagnated Mac's ascending. Zappe showed he can be a more than capable back up, because we know what hoyer is. If this season can somewhat be salvaged and they make the playoffs then that's a huge lift!

 

[Thelonious]

Good to know I've got company. I feel a little less alone in the universe now

LOL. I taught the Allegory of the Cave four times a year for 25 years. Anytime I can manufacture an opportunity to revisit those enjoyable days, I grab it.

 

[mgteich]

C'mon now: not what I said. There is a HISTORY of criticizing Bill the GM, because there is a HISTORY of disappointing-verging-on-idiotic draft choices engineered by him. No one would question any GM based on any single draft disappointment, but there is a solid basis for such questioning when there is a history, over years, both of bad draft choices AND of other sorts of bonehead personnel decisions, including his asinine mishandling of Brady's later career. Neither is it the case that this is some new notion for me, based only on very recent issues. I have been saying for a couple of years that Bill the GM should long since have been replaced.

As for looking back at Mac's having been drafted, virtually EVERYONE said at that time that the issue with Mac would be: what is his upside potential, what is his "ceiling"? Questions re Mac are not at all a knee-jerk reaction to recent failings on his part. Questions regarding Mac's ability to become a top-tier, "franchise" qb (use whatever buzzing jargon you like) are nothing new at all, and the questions raised then remain, as a matter of empirical fact, unanswered as we speak.

fair enough

Belichick has made draft choice that you think were bordering-on-idiotic. I agree. And, I also believe that this probably true foe ever GM in the NFL who has been around for awhile.

Personally, I think that Belichick has made good choices and poor ones in drafting, trading and in signing free agents. I also believe that the patriots have AT LEAST in the top 10 in this area over the past 20 years.
=======================
As fans, we think that we have a right to be one of the 8 or 9 nine teams that will win a Super Bowl in the next decade. We've been spoiled by one of the best franchises in the history of the NFL and certainly one of the longest lasting.

I have my complaints this year and last, as I have every year. Of course, I thought that my conclusions were somewhat obvious. We needed, and top seasoned OC, a solid QB coach, a solid OL coach and securing backups at OL. To be clear, if Dante had openly blessed Hines, Cajuste, Steuber and Russey as potential future starters, I would feel much better about the OL.

 

[mgteich]

As for looking back at Mac's having been drafted, virtually EVERYONE said at that time that the issue with Mac would be: what is his upside potential, what is his "ceiling"? Questions re Mac are not at all a knee-jerk reaction to recent failings on his part. Questions regarding Mac's ability to become a top-tier, "franchise" qb (use whatever buzzing jargon you like) are nothing new at all, and the questions raised then remain, as a matter of empirical fact, unanswered as we speak.

OK, Mac's future was hoped to be a top 10 quarterback at best. There was only one potential franchise QB available, and he was the first pick in the draft.

I missed you point.

We NEED to continue Mac's development as a potential top 10. Belichick, and most coaches, will continue to try to secure franchise QB's. A coach has to pay a lot and get lucky.

 

[ralmat55]

Earlier this week I read an article about the NY Yankees. The subject of the article caught my attention as though my love for the Red Sox as waned over the years my dislike for the Yankees hasn’t. The article was about why players no longer wanted to play for the Yankees.

The gist of the article was Yankee players find it impossible to live up to the legacy of franchise and the expectations of Yankee fans. It mentioned how Aaron Judge who hit 62 home runs during the season was booed just because the Yankees were swept by a better Astros team. Later in the week I read were Judge, a free agent,had removed Yankee references from his social media accounts.

It was an interesting read given the ugly situation in Foxboro last Monday night and the subsequent comments of level headed players like Jakobi Meyers and Devin McCourty regarding the vitriol directed at their teammate, you have to wonder whether the Patriots are heading the way of the Yankees in becoming a place players don’t want to play because of unreasonable expectations and mean-spiritedness of their fans.

It’s sometimes hard to read the nastiness on this forum directed at Mac Jones. It’s painful to read internet tough guys make fun of the pain he experienced when injured or read post after post about this player or that player sucking. Let’s get a grip on ourselves. As Patriots fans, we have every reason to be grateful but we have no reason to be hateful ingrates.

We’ve experienced 20 years of expecting good things to happen. That’s not the experience of the normal football fan. Now, like the rest, we’re left hoping for good things to happen. If you can’t handle that, you might want to consider another hobby.

Back to the subject of Ian’s article and this thread. We will not know if Mac Jones is a good enough QB to win a championship at the end of this season because the rest of the team, coaches included, are not good enough for him to be the deciding factor.

A little patience and support might be in order here and might actually pay off in the long run. QB prospects as good as Jones don’t usually fall in your lap with a mid 1st round draft pick. Great QBs don’t grow on trees. They’re all works in progress. Jones is a work in progress as are the 4 QBs selected before him. Let’s get a grip.

 

[Toofy]

True, all of those are good examples but they're rare and a result of either having all-time great defenses or getting hot at the right time. Do the Pats have an all-time great D? Can we get hot at the right time? Maybe, I guess.

Exactly ! Please get it only Brady had continued success as a premier QB . Nobody else had which means coaching and team is important .

The best anyone else could come close to vrady were big Ben, eli and Peyton where defenses carried them and some magical QB plays. Mahomes has just 1 ring to show . So it's difficult to keep winning. We just hit the Powerball continuously for 2 decades . Get that !

I am okay if we are competitive and do not want to go the jets/colts/browns route. See how Denver is struggling after Peyton left.

Shanahan trying it all out with lance is such a big gamble which misfired when he had a functional QB in garopollo. That's a lesson for all of us .

Zappe and Mac are decent . Let's try to build around them . It might take a year or two . But that's the best chance we have got. Not everyone is so fortunate to have 2 above average rookie QBs.

If I come to office every day thinking I am gonna get fired no way am I gonna be able to do the work . Same is the case with Mac. Allow him the freedom to grow into the offense this year.

I am a big zappe supporter but I believe Mac needs more backing to show what's he got and that means at least 2 full seasons and one off-season.

 

[Toofy]

Earlier this week I read an article about the NY Yankees. The subject of the article caught my attention as though my love for the Red Sox as waned over the years my dislike for the Yankees hasn’t. The article was about why players no longer wanted to play for the Yankees.

The gist of the article was Yankee players find it impossible to live up to the legacy of franchise and the expectations of Yankee fans. It mentioned how Aaron Judge who hit 62 home runs during the season was booed just because the Yankees were swept by a better Astros team. Later in the week I read were Judge, a free agent,had removed Yankee references from his social media accounts.

It was an interesting read given the ugly situation in Foxboro last Monday night and the subsequent comments of level headed players like Jakobi Meyers and Devin McCourty regarding the vitriol directed at their teammate, you have to wonder whether the Patriots are heading the way of the Yankees in becoming a place players don’t want to play because of unreasonable expectations and mean-spiritedness of their fans.

It’s sometimes hard to read the nastiness on this forum directed at Mac Jones. It’s painful to read internet tough guys make fun of the pain he experienced when injured or read post after post about this player or that player sucking. Let’s get a grip on ourselves. As Patriots fans, we have every reason to be grateful but we have no reason to be hateful ingrates.

We’ve experienced 20 years of expecting good things to happen. That’s not the experience of the normal football fan. Now, like the rest, we’re left hoping for good things to happen. If you can’t handle that, you might want to consider another hobby.

Back to the subject of Ian’s article and this thread. We will not know if Mac Jones is a good enough QB to win a championship at the end of this season because the rest of the team, coaches included, are not good enough for him to be the deciding factor.

A little patience and support might be in order here and might actually pay off in the long run. QB prospects as good as Jones don’t usually fall in your lap with a mid 1st round draft pick. Great QBs don’t grow on trees. They’re all works in progress. Jones is a work in progress as are the 4 QBs selected before him. Let’s get a grip.

Beautiful post. I wish more of us have your mindset and rally behind Mac in the next game rather than booing. Shameful behavior last game .

If we need any QB to stay here we need to be grateful fans and not ingrates as a huge section of fans that showed up last week . We will have good and bad days and we need to support them through thick and skin as true fans .

Else we deserve all the brickbats that other fans heap on us as spoilsport fans
. I understand fans are emotional but that doesn't give us the right to pull down a player who took us to playoffs in his rookie year. Let the correction set in for both players and fans ..

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Exactly ! Please get it only Brady had continued success as a premier QB . Nobody else had which means coaching and team is important .

The best anyone else could come close to vrady were big Ben, eli and Peyton where defenses carried them and some magical QB plays. Mahomes has just 1 ring to show . So it's difficult to keep winning. We just hit the Powerball continuously for 2 decades . Get that !

I am okay if we are competitive and do not want to go the jets/colts/browns route. See how Denver is struggling after Peyton left.

Shanahan trying it all out with lance is such a big gamble which misfired when he had a functional QB in garopollo. That's a lesson for all of us .

Zappe and Mac are decent . Let's try to build around them . It might take a year or two . But that's the best chance we have got. Not everyone is so fortunate to have 2 above average rookie QBs.

If I come to office every day thinking I am gonna get fired no way am I gonna be able to do the work . Same is the case with Mac. Allow him the freedom to grow into the offense this year.

I am a big zappe supporter but I believe Mac needs more backing to show what's he got and that means at least 2 full seasons and one off-season.

Again I think I need to make this clear we need to see what Mac we are getting.
This isn’t a guy with raw physical tools who we drafted knowing there would be growing pains and steep learning curve.
This is a prayer who just about every GM said he’s the most pro ready he’s not going to drive the ball but he won’t lose you games and with a strong supporting staff can win and he has high football intelligence.

In the off-season. When he organized the work outs with the players and we saw him lose weight and he was laying off ice cream and we heard Tom house say his arm strength can improve with technique so he was working on that.
We were all optimistic especially coming off a strong rookie season where we saw really good clean football.

2022 Mac, I am seeing a guy who is not confident in either the play call, the protections the matchups.
Sometimes all three.
I am seeing a player who is being careless with the football and trying to fit the ball with multiple defenders in that area which is not close to his skill set.
I am seeing a guy who is getting happy feet before the defender is around his legs and I am seeing a guy who Vs throwing the pass away to live to the next down is taking a sack or making bad decisions with the footbal.

Now I know his entire offensive staff is gone from 2020.
I know that Matt Patricia Joe Judge and BB are kind of a a trifecta of a coordinator.
I know Patricia is calling and maybe the one designing plays for the first time in his coaching career and I know Joe Judge looked like a train wreck with the Giants and is now Macs QB whisperer,

However how bad can these coaches be.
I doubt anyone is telling him to throw without his back foot planted or with the terrible technique I am seeing in these balls that have lost power not gained and every pass to the sideline or really any pass I am holding my breath it’s not getting picked.

I think Mac needs a sports psychiatrist cause he’s regressing in all his previous strengths.
We could say sophomore slump?
However this more looks like he is the lesser of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL.
We need to find out quick who Mac is what is wrong how to fix it.
If we are trying to make a playoff push we can’t have the bad Mac.

Zappe is a much safer choice to not make self inflicting mistakes with his quick release and field awareness.

What are these Patriots are They playoff contenders or are we bottom of the AFC Cellar dwellers who reached on a QB coming from a school known for churning out jags at that position?

BB needs to figure out before next draft and if Mac or Bailey can be the guy if not find that guy.
Cause headcoaches without that guy don’t last long.

My Original point letting Mac play poor for two seasons is assnine.
He needs to fix this in the next three weeks or be benched permanently and be the next Josh Rosen or the long list of Alabama QBs who couldn’t cut it when the talent was even on opposing teams.

 

[venecol]

I think Mac needs a sports psychiatrist cause he’s regressing in all his previous strengths.

 

[Real fan 02]

Again I think I need to make this clear we need to see what Mac we are getting.
This isn’t a guy with raw physical tools who we drafted knowing there would be growing pains and steep learning curve.
This is a prayer who just about every GM said he’s the most pro ready he’s not going to drive the ball but he won’t lose you games and with a strong supporting staff can win and he has high football intelligence.

In the off-season. When he organized the work outs with the players and we saw him lose weight and he was laying off ice cream and we heard Tom house say his arm strength can improve with technique so he was working on that.
We were all optimistic especially coming off a strong rookie season where we saw really good clean football.

2022 Mac, I am seeing a guy who is not confident in either the play call, the protections the matchups.
Sometimes all three.
I am seeing a player who is being careless with the football and trying to fit the ball with multiple defenders in that area which is not close to his skill set.
I am seeing a guy who is getting happy feet before the defender is around his legs and I am seeing a guy who Vs throwing the pass away to live to the next down is taking a sack or making bad decisions with the footbal.

Now I know his entire offensive staff is gone from 2020.
I know that Matt Patricia Joe Judge and BB are kind of a a trifecta of a coordinator.
I know Patricia is calling and maybe the one designing plays for the first time in his coaching career and I know Joe Judge looked like a train wreck with the Giants and is now Macs QB whisperer,

However how bad can these coaches be.
I doubt anyone is telling him to throw without his back foot planted or with the terrible technique I am seeing in these balls that have lost power not gained and every pass to the sideline or really any pass I am holding my breath it’s not getting picked.

I think Mac needs a sports psychiatrist cause he’s regressing in all his previous strengths.
We could say sophomore slump?
However this more looks like he is the lesser of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL.
We need to find out quick who Mac is what is wrong how to fix it.
If we are trying to make a playoff push we can’t have the bad Mac.

Zappe is a much safer choice to not make self inflicting mistakes with his quick release and field awareness.

What are these Patriots are They playoff contenders or are we bottom of the AFC Cellar dwellers who reached on a QB coming from a school known for churning out jags at that position?

BB needs to figure out before next draft and if Mac or Bailey can be the guy if not find that guy.
Cause headcoaches without that guy don’t last long.

My Original point letting Mac play poor for two seasons is assnine.
He needs to fix this in the next three weeks or be benched permanently and be the next Josh Rosen or the long list of Alabama QBs who couldn’t cut it when the talent was even on

View attachment 46739

View attachment 46739

A new offensive system installed, no consistency on the offensive line, the to buy, or not to buy in factor, getting Injured, missing time, these are the primary reasons for the struggles, it's all mental, the reports out there have some validity, no matter how this season ends I feel Mac is a one contract qb, meaning he won't stand for the home team discount as 12 did for so long..

I like Mac and I actually feel bad for the kid.. I wish he had a bona-fide offensive coordinator..

It's become very apparent the 2 best coaches to succeed post BB are Flores and dabol! We have no coaches on this team even close to that caliber!

 

[venecol]

It's become very apparent the 2 best coaches to succeed post BB are Flores and dabol! We have no coaches on this team even close to that caliber!

Now I see why BB confused the two Brians.

 

[Thelonious]

If I step back, step aside from defending whatever I have said up to now, I think that though Zappe has indeed outplayed Mac, and that none of the various excuses alter this fact, Mac is indeed likely to emerge as the best option in our quest for a new "franchise quarterback." I do not think he has earned the "starting qb" role yet, but I suspect he probably will, in the end. I suspect, that is, that he will emerge as a more likely option for the "legit starter" role then Zappe. I do not know, however, that he is good enough that we "have our guy" long term. He might be better than Zappe, that is, but still not good enough. I like the competition, and I do not at all think that requiring Mac to EARN the starting role represents any kind of abuse.

It's worrisome to think that we might end as one of those teams with high hopes, every year or two, for some new qb prospect, only to see him amount to nothing. But we might be. My real concern, I guess, is whether we have a coaching staff with the skills to develop and evaluate these prospects, so that we can really know, when we let them go and move on, that that is really the right thing to do. When I look at how Fat Matt and what's-his-face have handled the Mac v. Zappe thing, I'm not encouraged.

We cannot assume that we are immune to such longterm disappointment. I was a loyal Pats' fan through MANY dreary years, and I see no reason to assume we might not go through the same again. I'll remain a fan, of course, whatever happens. It reminds me of the Bruins. I was a fan through the Golden 70's - Orr, Busyk, Mackenzie, Hodge, Cashman, Cheevers, Smith, Esposito, Bob Wilson on the radio, etc. - and though the Bruins have had their successes since, they have never come close that THAT glory again.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

Again I think I need to make this clear we need to see what Mac we are getting.
This isn’t a guy with raw physical tools who we drafted knowing there would be growing pains and steep learning curve.
This is a prayer who just about every GM said he’s the most pro ready he’s not going to drive the ball but he won’t lose you games and with a strong supporting staff can win and he has high football intelligence.

In the off-season. When he organized the work outs with the players and we saw him lose weight and he was laying off ice cream and we heard Tom house say his arm strength can improve with technique so he was working on that.
We were all optimistic especially coming off a strong rookie season where we saw really good clean football.

2022 Mac, I am seeing a guy who is not confident in either the play call, the protections the matchups.
Sometimes all three.
I am seeing a player who is being careless with the football and trying to fit the ball with multiple defenders in that area which is not close to his skill set.
I am seeing a guy who is getting happy feet before the defender is around his legs and I am seeing a guy who Vs throwing the pass away to live to the next down is taking a sack or making bad decisions with the footbal.

Now I know his entire offensive staff is gone from 2020.
I know that Matt Patricia Joe Judge and BB are kind of a a trifecta of a coordinator.
I know Patricia is calling and maybe the one designing plays for the first time in his coaching career and I know Joe Judge looked like a train wreck with the Giants and is now Macs QB whisperer,

However how bad can these coaches be.
I doubt anyone is telling him to throw without his back foot planted or with the terrible technique I am seeing in these balls that have lost power not gained and every pass to the sideline or really any pass I am holding my breath it’s not getting picked.

I think Mac needs a sports psychiatrist cause he’s regressing in all his previous strengths.
We could say sophomore slump?
However this more looks like he is the lesser of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL.
We need to find out quick who Mac is what is wrong how to fix it.
If we are trying to make a playoff push we can’t have the bad Mac.

Zappe is a much safer choice to not make self inflicting mistakes with his quick release and field awareness.

What are these Patriots are They playoff contenders or are we bottom of the AFC Cellar dwellers who reached on a QB coming from a school known for churning out jags at that position?

BB needs to figure out before next draft and if Mac or Bailey can be the guy if not find that guy.
Cause headcoaches without that guy don’t last long.

My Original point letting Mac play poor for two seasons is assnine.
He needs to fix this in the next three weeks or be benched permanently and be the next Josh Rosen or the long list of Alabama QBs who couldn’t cut it when the talent was even on opposing teams.

Mac had a great rookie season but a lot of these guys go though a so called sophomore slump. Given all the coaching turnover, failed offensive philosophy at the start of the season, and an injury….I am surprised he is not doing WORSE! Pretty sure this is all a bump in the road…or several potholes…We need to give him the time needed and stop with the spoiled fan bit. Personally I think we are in a great situation with the quarterbacks we have. Just think…we probably won’t be seeing much Hoyer play from now on!

 

[venecol]

Mac had a great rookie season but a lot of these guys go though a so called sophomore slump. Given all the coaching turnover, failed offensive philosophy at the start of the season, and an injury….I am surprised he is not doing WORSE! Pretty sure this is all a bump in the road…or several potholes…We need to give him the time needed and stop with the spoiled fan bit. Personally I think we are in a great situation with the quarterbacks we have. Just think…we probably won’t be seeing much Hoyer play from now on!

I mean, how much worse can he do being ranked #34 out of 38 QBs in Rating.

 

[PancakeBlockPaul]

I mean, how much worse can he do being ranked #34 out of 38 QBs in Rating.

Well he could be Tony Eason bad or even worse…Cam bad…by all mean I’m not saying he’s doing great. Dudes human and humans screw up…even god mode divorcee Brady.

 

[Real fan 02]

Now I see why BB confused the two Brians.

Lol yeah well 3 if you want to include his son.. I took some time to really pay attention, what dabol did with Josh Allen and with that giants team speaks volumes about judge.

Josh McDaniels excellent coordination great offensive mind.. not so much a great head coach.. the defense took leaps and bounds under Flores, I really and truly wish mac had real creative coaching that is conducive to his skills .

 

[Real fan 02]

If I step back, step aside from defending whatever I have said up to now, I think that though Zappe has indeed outplayed Mac, and that none of the various excuses alter this fact, Mac is indeed likely to emerge as the best option in our quest for a new "franchise quarterback." I do not think he has earned the "starting qb" role yet, but I suspect he probably will, in the end. I suspect, that is, that he will emerge as a more likely option for the "legit starter" role then Zappe. I do not know, however, that he is good enough that we "have our guy" long term. He might be better than Zappe, that is, but still not good enough. I like the competition, and I do not at all think that requiring Mac to EARN the starting role represents any kind of abuse.

It's worrisome to think that we might end as one of those teams with high hopes, every year or two, for some new qb prospect, only to see him amount to nothing. But we might be. My real concern, I guess, is whether we have a coaching staff with the skills to develop and evaluate these prospects, so that we can really know, when we let them go and move on, that that is really the right thing to do. When I look at how Fat Matt and what's-his-face have handled the Mac v. Zappe thing, I'm not encouraged.

We cannot assume that we are immune to such longterm disappointment. I was a loyal Pats' fan through MANY dreary years, and I see no reason to assume we might not go through the same again. I'll remain a fan, of course, whatever happens. It reminds me of the Bruins. I was a fan through the Golden 70's - Orr, Busyk, Mackenzie, Hodge, Cashman, Cheevers, Smith, Esposito, Bob Wilson on the radio, etc. - and though the Bruins have had their successes since, they have never come close that THAT glory again.

Completely understand everything you said! And it is spot on! however I'd like to add that this is the modern era NFL, where the patriots brand is at an all time high as far as where this franchise is valued! RKK being the excellent owner that he is.. is on the communication board with CBS, he's instrumental with the TV deals.

One thing owners care about is $$$$$.. if we continue to loose and those ratings dip, then we will see changes. BB is unquestionably the greatest coach of all time.. however even the greats trip up on occasion, I commend the team for rebuilding and even making the playoffs while doing so season. What is disappointing is that we felt this team could be better!

We are feeling what it's like both to have inconsistent solid play at the QB position. We are a flawed team, with injuries, inconsistencies and just growing pains.. IF we can string some games together and Mac can return to form then the hope will be instilled again. I root for my team just like all of us do however we still have to recognize where our football is currently at!

 

[Wordsmyth]

If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem
Ian Logue
If the New England Patriots hope to salvage their season, they'll need to either go all in behind Mac Jones, or pray that Bailey Zappe just had an off night against Chicago on Monday because if not, Bill Belichick may end up with quite a problem on his hands.

The post If Patriots QB Situation Falls Flat, Belichick Could End Up With a Serious Problem appeared first on PatsFans.com.

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Could be worse. He could sign that agent provacateur Colonic Sackorpick.

 

[Real fan 02]

Could be worse. He could sign that agent provacateur Colonic Sackorpick.

Need to win today pretty or ugly, Mac needs this game to get back on track, Thornton to me is the x factor, those corners won't be able to play up at the line of scrimmage, space will open up for HH to do work. This is a MUST win!