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Fatmancryin

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I did watch those years. Of course coaching matters. We’re talking about the SIGNIFICANT number of people and Brady-haters that decided to credit Belichick for Tom’s throws and games as the reason for the ‘Dynasty’ and the winning.

Are we pretending that never happened now?

Brady himself Credits the coaching and the Patriots organization as a whole for his and the teams success.

19 years this team was firing on all cylinders, the last 5, every aspect of the Patriots organization has failed.

I really don’t think anyone can blame success or failure on just one person.
 

PATS16N0

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Brady himself Credits the coaching and the Patriots organization as a whole for his and the teams success.

19 years this team was firing on all cylinders, the last 5, every aspect of the Patriots organization has failed.

I really don’t think anyone can blame success or failure on just one person.
Talk about moving the goal posts to cope.
 

oldrover

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I did watch those years. Of course coaching matters. We’re talking about the SIGNIFICANT number of people and Brady-haters that decided to credit Belichick for Tom’s throws and games as the reason for the ‘Dynasty’ and the winning.

Are we pretending that never happened now?
Show me a post where someone said BB was responsible for Brady’s throws or comebacks. I’ve never seen one. And as for the Dynasty, all I’ve seen is people who believe it was both… or people who believe it was only Brady. You’re in that latter category, it seems.
 

h0c2000

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Coaching matters. Unfortunately we now have Jeff Fisher.
 

Ian

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I did watch those years. Of course coaching matters. We’re talking about the SIGNIFICANT number of people and Brady-haters that decided to credit Belichick for Tom’s throws and games as the reason for the ‘Dynasty’ and the winning.

Are we pretending that never happened now?
I will say that the people who argued “it wasn’t 100% Brady” are the people you’re putting into the “Brady-hater” category, which isn’t accurate and an exaggeration.

That being said, anyone who discounts Tom’s contributions would be just as foolish as those who diminish Bill’s.

All you need to do is watch football in January to see the quarterbacks who can navigate through those big games, vs the ones who fall apart. Same with coaches. When you happen to have both, you dominate for two decades ;)
 
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Ian

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Coaching matters. Unfortunately we now have Jeff Fisher.
Until Bill starts mentioning players who haven’t played on the opponent’s team in years, that’s a terrible comparison.

If you want to use Jack Del Rio for your analogy, I’ll allow it. But Fisher should have been fired the moment that happened. If Bill ever does that, then maybe I’ll agree with you. ;)
 

h0c2000

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Until Bill starts mentioning players who haven’t played on the opponent’s team in years, that’s a terrible comparison.

If you want to use Jack Del Rio for your analogy, I’ll allow it. But Fisher should have been fired the moment that happened. If Bill ever does that, then maybe I’ll agree with you. ;)

I guess you could also call the current Bill, the less successful version of the Patriots Pete Carroll.
 

sb1

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I guess you could also call the current Bill, the less successful version of the Patriots Pete Carroll.
I'd also take Pete's Pats teams anyday over the Pats from 2020-2023
 

ahmed

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Unfortunately, there are people that seem to think unless you admit Brady was the best player in NFL history the second he went in to replace Bledsoe back in 2001, you hate Brady. If you believed that Brady was good but not elite during part or most of the first dynasty run, you are a hater who is re-writing history to degrade Brady's legacy for some pro-Belichick or pro-Mac agenda.

I don't think there is a single Patriots fan who hates Brady.
He led league in TD in 2002, he was 3rd in MVP voting in 2003 and 2005 with his weapons. He scored 30+ points in 2003 SB. Yes he was very much elite starting in 2002.

This narrative that he was carried during the first run is lazy, ignorant and disingenuous
 

ahmed

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Yeah, I guess. There are a few who might have turned on him because they think Brady screwed over the Pats or something, but they are the fringe not anywhere near the mainstream.
There were a bunch who turned on him 2020-2021 on this very forum. Were you not around then?
 

TommyD4207

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Yeah, I guess. There are a few who might have turned on him because they think Brady screwed over the Pats or something, but they are the fringe not anywhere near the mainstream.
It's not hatred, but let's not just pretend this didn't happen:

 

h0c2000

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Until Bill starts mentioning players who haven’t played on the opponent’s team in years, that’s a terrible comparison.

It might be closer than you think.

Jeff FisherBill Belichick
Excellent Special teams playerLusts after special teams players
Super Bowl ChampionSuper Bowl Champion
Forgot someone's name onceForgot Malcolm Butler's name in the SB
Needed to be told to kick a FG in the SB by a player
Thought Joe Judge and MattyP would be great offensive coaches
Thinks the Veer is the only alternative offense
Decides to start all over in October
 

Ian

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It might be closer than you think.

Jeff FisherBill Belichick
Excellent Special teams playerLusts after special teams players
Super Bowl ChampionSuper Bowl Champion
Forgot someone's name onceForgot Malcolm Butler's name in the SB
Needed to be told to kick a FG in the SB by a player
Thought Joe Judge and MattyP would be great offensive coaches
Thinks the Veer is the only alternative offense
Decides to start all over in October
No...he at least watches film and knows the majority of players on the other team each and every week. Fisher didn't even know three guys who hadn't played here in several years, meaning that he clearly hadn't even looked at the tape or done literally any due diligence ahead of the game - by Wednesday no less.

The game was in just days and he didn't even know the opponent's personnel. We can certainly criticize some of Bill's decision making, but he's never been that poorly prepared to the point where he didn't even bother to break down an opponent's roster.

That was so egregious it was unreal and will go down as one of the most surprising things I've ever seen coaching-wise.

This is from that week, and his comments are all in there:

Again, just absolutely shocking.
 


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