Never give this guy a job as an NFL scout (Nkeal Harry evaluation)

[Patriot Missile]

When it’s all said and done it’s make or break year for Harry. As a general rule I always give draft picks 3 seasons regardless of round to show their game and grow a role with the team. So far he hasn’t produced remotely close what we’ve hoped for. Bottom line, he’s going to be and has been under a microscope since he was drafted. Thats what happens when a team decides to finally spend “real” draft capital on a premiere position thats been neglected by dart 2nd round to ufa selections. Minus Bethel Johnson, Dropson and Mitchell who were picked in the 2nd, 2nd and 4th. Also throw in the fact that two guys everyone on the draft forum were clamoring for were passed up and this is the response the homers will get. Brown and Metcalf were no brainers and they pooched it bad. Yeah, I read this article on Harry and I drank the kool aid with it to ease the pain of passing on them.

My stance is this. If they forgo qb in the first for some odd reason. Just go bpa, if that player turns out to be Waddle or D Smith and he fails then so be it. It was justified. Would be totally ok with Parsons or Horn/Surtain as well. They are bpa blue chips.

Some of it is talent evaluation on scouting and Coaches, sometimes its just where they are picking. Some of the drafts over the years have had as few as 10-15 NfL ready players. If Pats are picking 28-32 most years those elite prospects just aren’t there to be had when they are picking. Unfortunately they were two years ago and they missed.

 

[Bill Lee]

Maybe the "scout" went to John Carroll? Lol

If anyone relies on bleacher report for scouting reports, or any of the basically fan published sites, you get what you pay for...

I had hoped that Harry would turn a corner last year, but based on beat reporter columns - guys like curran, there is no real reason to think he will be any better this year... Done in by a lack of effort and a bad qb... Hurts we wasted a first, but it's a story that's been told before in the annals of nfl history

I wish BB would have traded down one pick to #33 so people here would not be so butt hurt about what round this guy was drafted in.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

.....

The 5' 9" cornerback gets bullied, not Harry.

He's a young guy and improved a lot in year 2, hopefully he keeps getting better in year 3.

In all seriousness, of COURSE I have to agree with the "hope." But it's certainly not what I'm banking on. How cool would that be though, after I spent 2 years calling him N'keal-down?

Seriously, people gotta give up their butt hurt about draft position.

Once the guy is on your team it doesn't matter what his draft position was, it's sunk cost.

Okay here's the thing. Have you ever heard of "sunk cost fallacy"?

I mean, it's fine as long as nothing - nothing - is sacrificed in pursuit of the resources already expended.

Once you start down that road... even if it just means keeping him around when somebody else could be plugged in.... it's a tad dangerous. I don't see us blocking promising pass catchers for him, although we'll see how the team acts once confronted with said dilemma. It was not a problem last year

 

[TheRainMaker]

Would be totally ok with Parsons

He's got some character issues that may either be a fluke or he's the next Reuben Foster.

 

[Pape]

I wish BB would have traded down one pick to #33 so people here would not be so butt hurt about what round this guy was drafted in.

Wouldn't matter... People would ***** about it regardless...

 

[Kontradiction]

Realistically, how is he going to get that many snaps this year? Assuming Edelman can play even half a season, who is Harry getting on the field over between Edelman, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Henry, and Smith? I’m assuming a lot of 2, 11, 12, 21, and 22 personnel this season. Harry is going to have a hard time even getting snaps. At this point, I seriously doubt he makes the roster out of TC and wouldn’t be surprised if he was traded before the draft.

 

[Sicilian]

Realistically, how is he going to get that many snaps this year? Assuming Edelman can play even half a season, who is Harry getting on the field over between Edelman, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Henry, and Smith? I’m assuming a lot of 2, 11, 12, 21, and 22 personnel this season. Harry is going to have a hard time even getting snaps. At this point, I seriously doubt he makes the roster out of TC and wouldn’t be surprised if he was traded before the draft.

Given the apparent shift to a more TE focused offense... or hell, at least an offense where we remember we HAVE tight ends, there aren't going to be that many snaps for Harry, and he may be asked to run block on 50% of them anyway. The only real way I can see him having a big year (comparatively) is if we have a disappointment somewhere else, such as Agholor or Bourne not working out, the tight ends getting hurt, Meyers regressing, etc. Either way, SOMEONE is going to miss out. Even if everything works perfectly, this just won't be the kind of offense that can make two tight ends, two running backs, and four wide receivers all look good.

 

[captain stone]

Harry was rumored to have advantages in 50/50 ball situations so they de-emphasized the "separation" trait they are known to be valuing which was a death blow.

A look at Harry by the numbers

FOXBORO — N’Keal Harry is unique. When the Patriots selected him with the 32nd pick in the 2019 NFL Draft, he became the first NFL draftee to come from St. Vincent and the Grenadines, a small isla…

www.providencejournal.com

Aaron Dropson had a 3-cone of nearly 7.2? Unbelievable.

 

[captain stone]

I wish BB would have traded down one pick to #33 so people here would not be so butt hurt about what round this guy was drafted in.

Wouldn't matter... People would ***** about it regardless...

And justifiably so.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Aaron Dropson had a 3-cone of nearly 7.2? Unbelievable.

He also had an incredible catch rate. 92 targets 0 drops in his senior year. 57 receptions with a crummy qb. Had 4.4 speed with size. The upside was there and he put on a pro uniform and couldn’t catch a cold.

The problem with Patriots scouting department and coaches is they just don’t don’t spend the draft capital at the position. Also if recent reports are true Bill overode the scouts. Whether thats true or not I don’t know. Besides Harry who was obviously the highest picked wr in the BB era, 32 mind you which is close to a 2nd rd pick as you can get. Dobson who is one of the higher drafted wrs at 59. Bethel Johnson 45. Malcolm Mitchell rd 4 pick 112. Josh Boyce rd 4 pick 102. Thats a lot of darts for picks that have a very small success rate for longevity in the NFL.

I had a discussion with a few Steeler fans at a sports bar one night a few years ago. Of course they hate us, but to the agreement of table they complimented how well the Pats draft oline out of any round that become starters. Ofcourse it all starts with the line coach Scar, who is one of the all time greats. I also think Bill has developed a good grasp of what Dante was looking for and it carried over with the Onwenu pick. I reminded them of their track record with WR’s and how impressive their hit rate was as well.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

@DropKickFlutie

Rotoworld has confirmed what you've been saying for a long time that Harry got the edge from his private workout at Gillette.

N'Keal Harry - Chicago Bears - news and analysis, statistics, game logs, depth charts, contracts, injuries

N'Keal Harry profile page, biographical information, injury history and news

www.nbcsports.com

If I hear a player crushed his draft workout with McDaniels we have to immediately cross that player off our draft boards. Too many carcasses. Chad Jackson, Tim Tebow, Laurence Maroney, Aaron Dobson, NKeal Harry. In fact don't even consider offense this draft except for OLine.

.

 

[RIpats88]

I have a hard time believing he'll make a leap this year. With Agholor and Bourne and more 2 TE sets, i see his playing time drop even more. Probably his last year, IMO.

Don't forget we still have Meyers too who would've put up a 1000 yard season if he had gotten snaps over harry earlier. And add in if Edelman returns, him being your #4 coming on in specialized situations.

I cant see Harry being on the field over any of these guys. I mean Henry, Smith, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Edelman. If we need more depth you could just sign Byrd for cheap who had a better season last year than Harry as well.

 

[Bill Lee]

Okay here's the thing. Have you ever heard of "sunk cost fallacy"?

I mean, it's fine as long as nothing - nothing - is sacrificed in pursuit of the resources already expended.

Once you start down that road... even if it just means keeping him around when somebody else could be plugged in.... it's a tad dangerous. I don't see us blocking promising pass catchers for him, although we'll see how the team acts once confronted with said dilemma. It was not a problem last year

Yes, I'm aware of the sunk cost fallacy, that's the argument I'm making. Once you have the player, forget about what it cost to get him, judge everyone equally.

I agree if he's impeding the progress of others he should go, but also if he fits a role that's different than the one the draftniks say he should be filling but fits your system, and if he's on an upward growth curve, you keep him. I'm not sure where he fits. We heard rumors he was being shopped around yet he didn't move. Seems to suggest they want something decent in return? Maybe he sticks, maybe he gets cut because the coaches see more promise in others or feel his growth potential is limited.

I know it drives draftniks crazy to think that a 1st round WR would end up as a role player, but once you've made the pick you can't go back and change it, you try to use the player in the best way possible, if other players are better, you trade or cut him.

Given the apparent shift to a more TE focused offense... or hell, at least an offense where we remember we HAVE tight ends, there aren't going to be that many snaps for Harry, and he may be asked to run block on 50% of them anyway. The only real way I can see him having a big year (comparatively) is if we have a disappointment somewhere else, such as Agholor or Bourne not working out, the tight ends getting hurt, Meyers regressing, etc. Either way, SOMEONE is going to miss out. Even if everything works perfectly, this just won't be the kind of offense that can make two tight ends, two running backs, and four wide receivers all look good.

There could be a role for a WR who has size and can block on a team that is TE heavy. Not sure if the staff feels Harry can fill in that role or not.

He also had an incredible catch rate. 92 targets 0 drops in his senior year. 57 receptions with a crummy qb. Had 4.4 speed with size. The upside was there and he put on a pro uniform and couldn’t catch a cold.

The problem with Patriots scouting department and coaches is they just don’t don’t spend the draft capital at the position. Also if recent reports are true Bill overode the scouts. Whether thats true or not I don’t know. Besides Harry who was obviously the highest picked wr in the BB era, 32 mind you which is close to a 2nd rd pick as you can get. Dobson who is one of the higher drafted wrs at 59. Bethel Johnson 45. Malcolm Mitchell rd 4 pick 112. Josh Boyce rd 4 pick 102. Thats a lot of darts for picks that have a very small success rate for longevity in the NFL.

I had a discussion with a few Steeler fans at a sports bar one night a few years ago. Of course they hate us, but to the agreement of table they complimented how well the Pats draft oline out of any round that become starters. Ofcourse it all starts with the line coach Scar, who is one of the all time greats. I also think Bill has developed a good grasp of what Dante was looking for and it carried over with the Onwenu pick. I reminded them of their track record with WR’s and how impressive their hit rate was as well.

The Patriots system is to build inside-out, get the core solid and add WRs and RBs as opportunity presents itself.

Don't forget we still have Meyers too who would've put up a 1000 yard season if he had gotten snaps over harry earlier. And add in if Edelman returns, him being your #4 coming on in specialized situations.

I cant see Harry being on the field over any of these guys. I mean Henry, Smith, Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Edelman. If we need more depth you could just sign Byrd for cheap who had a better season last year than Harry as well.

It's about winning games, not about getting a guy his 1000 yard season.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes, I'm aware of the sunk cost fallacy, that's the argument I'm making. Once you have the player, forget about what it cost to get him, judge everyone equally.

I agree if he's impeding the progress of others he should go, but also if he fits a role that's different than the one the draftniks say he should be filling but fits your system, and if he's on an upward growth curve, you keep him. I'm not sure where he fits. We heard rumors he was being shopped around yet he didn't move. Seems to suggest they want something decent in return? Maybe he sticks, maybe he gets cut because the coaches see more promise in others or feel his growth potential is limited.

I know it drives draftniks crazy to think that a 1st round WR would end up as a role player, but once you've made the pick you can't go back and change it, you try to use the player in the best way possible, if other players are better, you trade or cut him.

There could be a role for a WR who has size and can block on a team that is TE heavy. Not sure if the staff feels Harry can fill in that role or not.

The Patriots system is to build inside-out, get the core solid and add WRs and RBs as opportunity presents itself.

It's about winning games, not about getting a guy his 1000 yard season.

So exactly to the point of ignore where a guy was drafted, then off pure objectivity NKeal Harry should be cut. He's a slow WR with a 55% catch rate and a pathetic 9 yards per catch. He does not deserve to play over Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Smith, Henry, Edelman, Harris, James White. And again ignoring where a guy was drafted, Jacoby Meyers is a 100x better player, a guy who is a 1200 yard receiver if he started all 16 games. We don't need to draft a WR high this draft, we have a bunch of weapons now after free agency plus Meyers is a good starting WR.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

.

 

[50-yard-line]

So exactly to the point of ignore where a guy was drafted , then off pure objectivity NKeal Harry should be cut. He's a slow WR with a 55% catch rate and a pathetic 9 yards per catch. He does not deserve to play over Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Smith, Henry, Edelman, Harris, James White. And again ignoring where a guy was drafted, Jacoby Meyers is a 100x better player, a guy who is a 1200 yard receiver if he started all 16 games. We don't need to draft a WR high this draft, we have a bunch of weapons now after free agency plus Meyers

I'd say "double post," but at this point it's hard to tell with you.

Did you hit the wrong macro for that second one?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I'd say "double post," but at this point it's hard to tell with you.

Did you hit the wrong macro for that second one?

I didn't realize it double posted. Fixed.